The Israel-Palestine Politics Thread II

[SV Fan]

Another thing that's interesting is the fact that the Zionist Union who won second is pro-Arab and the Joint List who were in third place ARE Arabs, and together they have more votes than the Likud.

The 4th and 5th parties were both centrist parties as well(although not sure if they will side with Likud(netanyahu) or Zionist Union)

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's somewhat understandable. Two of Israel's big left wing parties recently merged, so I imagine Netanyahu was concerned about his numbers. Typically those bigots vote for other, fringe parties. I think he realizes now that he crossed a line.

He clearly drew votes from the more rightwing Jewish Home Yisrael Beiteinu.

 

[dony2012]

The 4th and 5th parties were both centrist parties as well(although not sure if they will side with Likud(netanyahu) or Zionist Union)

The heads of these parties all hates Netanyahu so I can't see them siding with him.

 

[SV Fan]

The heads of these parties all hates Netanyahu so I can't see them siding with him.

Problem is the Arab party will probably not join a coalition

Seems like after Kulanu most the parties are right wing besides Meretz(although the Shas seem to be one issue right wing voters and their support will go to the side that gives them that one issue, in this case they don't like doing national service)

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's kind of scary to think what America would be like with this kind of system...

I can see it now,

The Real American Party for neocons like Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin.
The Dull Centrist Party for the few moderates left. Note how I can't name any.
The Milquetoast Liberal Party for the half-assed liberals like Obama.
The Limousine Liberal Party for Hollywood and the idiots who don't vaccinate their kids.
A party just for Texas.
And the Green Party.

Maybe the two party system isn't so bad in hindsight...

 

[dony2012]

It's kind of scary to think what America would be like with this kind of system...

I can see it now,

The Real American Party for neocons like Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin.
The Dull Centrist Party for the few moderates left. Note how I can't name any.
The Milquetoast Liberal Party for the half-assed liberals like Obama.
The Limousine Liberal Party for Hollywood and the idiots who don't vaccinate their kids.
A party just for Texas.
And the Green Party.

Maybe the two party system isn't so bad in hindsight...

Which is why a lot of Israelis wants to see it changes into a presidential system just like in the US.

 

[SV Fan]

The Dull Centrist Party for the few moderates left. Note how I can't name any.

The Northern Republican/Southern Democrat Party(ie Blue State Republicans or Red State Democrats in the House or Senate, especially the Senate)?

I think you would have the Slightly Center right party, the Extreme Right(Social issue and neocons) and Libertarian parties for conservatives

 

[Thundercrack85]

I was thinking the Republicans who didn't sign the Iran treason letter. The ones no one can name.

I see Obama as a moderate Democrat. As opposed to say Feinstein or Gore, who would be Limousine Liberals.

 

[SV Fan]

I was thinking the Republicans who didn't sign the Iran treason letter. The ones no one can name.

Well Mark Kirk(Ill) signed it, I would put him in the moderate group. I was surprised because more then any other Senator in 2016 he seems to be on the chopping block

Susan Collins of Maine was probably the most name worthy person who didn't sign it(besides Corker), but she constantly get the RINO label attached to her. Murkowski of Alaska also didn't sign it(yet another Rino)

 

[hippie_hunter]

No, you just agree with your friends.

A general election is a better measurement of national mood.

If I went exclusively by the people that I know, Obama would have lost in a landslide.

 

[Thundercrack85]

And if he won he would have made himself president for life and imposed Sharia law.

...I know a lot of Republicans.

 

[NicoSuave]

So true.

I find it fascinating also that when I post something on my facebook that is even the slightest negative towards Israel I receive some of the most vile comments.


People are insane.

This is a can of worms I have wanted to open up for the longest time, but unfortunately can't, because my uncle is involved in a judicial election in Pennsylvania (the state that introduced the world to Rick Santorum).

It could be he just doesn't want to call a leader that's incredibly racist and helping to lead the charge for racial hatred and violence.

^^^THIS^^^

Of course it's a lie. You really think Obama gives a **** about Israel? I wouldn't say he's anti-Israeli per se, but why would he have any love for it? It's not his country. He's never lived there. It's been nothing but a thorn in his side his entire presidency. Saying how super awesome Israel is and how great the US' relationship with it is, has become standard rhetoric in DC. It's like saying you regularly go to church, when you only really started going a week before formally announcing your presidential campaign.

The relationship is pretty bad, actually. Borderline abusive now.

^^^ALSO THIS^^^

I honestly get annoyed with Netanyahu constantly shoving in our face how they are our number 1 ally. I am sorry I have to think there is many countries that I would consider a better ally then Israel. Canada and the UK come to mind near the top. The whole number one ally talking point from Netanyahu or Republicans just feels like something I would expect from a used car salesman who is trying to sell me a lemon and is trying to make me feel good.

Israel is our number 1 ally... in the Middle East. Our number 1 ally overall is Canada (although Washington DC might be too blind to realize it). I really hope Obama just straight up gives Bibi the finger, and sends him the message that as long as Israel uses Palestinian children for target practice with rockets, they're not going to use American money to do so.

 

[SV Fan]

Israel is our number 1 ally... in the Middle East.

While I can agree with this, I just wish they would stop trying to shove in my face that they are #1, say you are an ally and we always work together without trying to make it sound like you want to sell me something

 

[NicoSuave]

While I can agree with this, I just wish they would stop trying to shove in my face that they are #1, say you are an ally and we always work together without trying to make it sound like you want to sell me something

Israel is the "Holy Land." There's always something to be sold there, and the GOP will happily sell it for Israel, because Republicans desperately want to get into Heaven, even though just about everything they do and everyone they take money from would make Jesus shake his head and face palm in disgust.

 

[dony2012]

*edit*

 

[Marvolo]

White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough Says the Israeli Occupation 'Must End'

WASHINGTON -- White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough brought a strong message to an American pro-Israel conference on Monday, telling a crowd of 3,000 attendees that “an occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end, and the Palestinian people must have the right to live in and govern themselves in their own sovereign state.”

The annual conference, hosted by J Street, fell at a nearly unprecedented low point in U.S.-Israeli relations. Existing tensions between President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu came to a head in the recent Israeli elections, when Netanyahu campaigned on a promise that he would not allow for the creation of a Palestinian state. Though he has since tried to reaffirm his support for a two-state solution, the White House has rejected his reversal.

“After the election, the prime minister said that he had not changed his position, but for many in Israel and in the international community, such contradictory comments call into question his commitment to a two-state solution -- as did his suggestion that the construction of settlements has a strategic purpose of dividing Palestinian communities and his claim that conditions in the larger Middle East must be more stable before a Palestinian state can be established,” McDonough said.

“We cannot simply pretend that those comments were never made, or that they don’t raise questions about the prime minister’s commitment to achieving peace through direct negotiations,” McDonough added, saying that the Obama administration plans to reevaluate its policy toward Israel and the Palestinian territories.

Though McDonough did not elaborate on what a revamped policy would look like, the White House has suggested that its opposition to Palestinian attempts to secure statehood at the United Nations may soften. On Thursday, White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters, “Steps that the United States has taken at the United Nations have been predicated on this idea that the two-state solution is the best outcome. Now our ally in these talks has said that they are no longer committed to that solution. That means that we need to reevaluate our position in this matter, and that is what we will do moving forward,” referring to past down-votes by the U.S. on Palestinian statehood initiatives.

While the relationship between Obama and Netanyahu has been strained since the American president’s early days in office, both leaders, at least officially, have supported a negotiated two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Now that the Obama administration is operating under the assumption that Netanyahu has no intention of supporting a Palestinian state, the White House has been increasingly unrestricted in its criticism of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.

“Palestinian children deserve the same right to be free in their own land as Israeli children in their land. A two-state solution will finally bring Israelis the security and normalcy to which they are entitled, and Palestinians the sovereignty and dignity they deserve,” McDonough told a cheering crowd of J Street conference attendees, who overwhelmingly identify with the Jewish left.

The chief of staff said that the parameters of a two-state solution are clear. “The borders of Israel and an independent Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps. Each state needs secure and recognized borders, and there must be robust provisions that safeguard Israel’s security,” he said, mentioning baseline borders that Netanyahu has repeatedly refused, citing security concerns.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6926380?utm_hp_ref=tw

Yahu may have won the election but he may have finally lost his blank check with the US. I love it! The more he squirms and desperately tries to backpeddle and say he didnt mean what he said the happier I get. No ones buying it, Yahu. You ****ed up and now the world sees you for what you are.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, I'm kinda getting a bit of sick pleasure out of this one. The cost of his victory is the possibility that he lost his blank checks

 

[Thundercrack85]

It won't last.

 

[Kelly]

Ok, soooooooo all of the Jews in the Jewish settlements that are in the West Bank leave....and they go back to the 1967 green line....

Do you guys REALLY THINK that the Hamas and Hezbollah are going to stop the suicide bombers, that they are going to suddenly move out of the neighborhoods of the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank and stop using those areas as shields?...that simply because they will then be headed to a sovereign Palestinian State that those 2 groups will stop?

And then Israel opens its borders, tears down the fences....

Then what?

I mean seriously, all of those things must be looked at, YES Israel needs to hold up its end of the bargain, but are we forgetting there is another end?

If anyone thinks that the Palestinian government can control those groups, or that in reality those groups don't control the Palestinian government then I have a bridge to sell ya...

 

[NicoSuave]

Ok, soooooooo all of the Jews in the Jewish settlements that are in the West Bank leave....and they go back to the 1967 green line....

Do you guys REALLY THINK that the Hamas and Hezbollah are going to stop the suicide bombers, that they are going to suddenly move out of the neighborhoods of the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank and stop using those areas as shields?...that simply because they will then be headed to a sovereign Palestinian State that those 2 groups will stop?

And then Israel opens its borders, tears down the fences....

Then what?

I mean seriously, all of those things must be looked at, YES Israel needs to hold up its end of the bargain, but are we forgetting there is another end?

If you eliminate the reason for radicals to be radical, then the majority of them will no longer feel the need to be radical. It'll take time to make the adjustment, but the eventual payoff will be worth it.

 

[Kelly]

If you eliminate the reason for radicals to be radical, then the majority of them will no longer feel the need to be radical. It'll take time to make the adjustment, but the eventual payoff will be worth it.

THE REASON the radicals are radical is because the Jews are there....

Those groups want ALL OF THEIR LAND BACK...they do not want Israel to exist...so in order to do what you are saying, then Israel needs to NOT EXIST. That's not an adjustment, that's fact.

The only reason that Israel needs to move out of Palestinian areas is to simply hold up to their end of the bargain, "Land for Peace" portion of that agreement. They should still be able to defend themselves, and I can assure you, they will need to....but at least they will be on the high ground so to speak if they hold up to their part of the agreement.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If we can't get the officially recognized state with a stable government to hold up their end of the bargain, how can we expect the other faction with an unstable government to ever hold up to their commitments?

Forget sovereign state, right now we don't even have a token puppet state on the table.

Also, why is this up to Israel? If you believe in two states, then you obviously believe that Palestinians deserve some sovereignty and self-determination. Israel has had decades to move on this. At some point the rest of the world is going to take action, and hold Israel to its obligations.

 

[NicoSuave]

THE REASON the radicals are radical is because the Jews are there....

Those groups want ALL OF THEIR LAND BACK...they do not want Israel to exist...so in order to do what you are saying, then Israel needs to NOT EXIST. That's not an adjustment, that's fact.

The reason the radicals are radical is because Israel treated Palestine like **** for the longest time. Agree to a two state solution, and then maybe the healing process can begin. It won't be perfect, but it'll be a start.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well no. The Arabs do historically have a genocidal hatred for the Jews. Even in 1948, there was talk of genocide in the Arab militaries.

But feelings have moderated somewhat. Consider Jordan and Israel. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians however only encourages radicalism. Even secular radicalism.

You'll always have radicalism, but right now Israel is doing Hamas' work for it.

 

[Marvolo]

Ok, soooooooo all of the Jews in the Jewish settlements that are in the West Bank leave....and they go back to the 1967 green line....

Do you guys REALLY THINK that the Hamas and Hezbollah are going to stop the suicide bombers, that they are going to suddenly move out of the neighborhoods of the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank and stop using those areas as shields?...that simply because they will then be headed to a sovereign Palestinian State that those 2 groups will stop?

And then Israel opens its borders, tears down the fences....

Then what?

I mean seriously, all of those things must be looked at, YES Israel needs to hold up its end of the bargain, but are we forgetting there is another end?

If anyone thinks that the Palestinian government can control those groups, or that in reality those groups don't control the Palestinian government then I have a bridge to sell ya...

I dont want a Palestinian state because I think it will solve the region's terrorist problems. I dont think it will. I want a palestinian state because its whats right. The Palestinians have been ram rodded and treated like dog **** for decades. Im talking about the innocent people who arent terrorists. The people that Israel is stealing land from and the people that are being stepped on because they are viewed as second class citizens.