Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

I’ve accepted that this will be an elseworlds film with a lot of liberties taken.

But it’s Joaquin Phoenix playing The Joker, so we gotta give it a shot, right? Would certainly say a lot about our society if we didn’t.....

Thing is, elseworlds or not, i respectfully think it's a lazy way to tell a story and ultimately try and cash in/play it safe, that has resemblence to something else. It's like calling kick ass an elseworlds batman and robin movie - does that make sense? It should just be it's own thing, some bloke who works as a clown suffers gross misfortune; drop the name gotham, wayne etc the colours linked to joker...

But, i am hoping this has more to it than it's letting on.
 
Possible first-listen at the Joker laugh:



Sounds like evil Elmo to me.
 
I've been wondering about this for a day or so; will he fall into the chemical vat at some point? Will he change his makeup design to something a little more recognizable (at the risk of looking too much like Heath Ledger)? Or could this be his actual "Joker" look? I'm not ruling out the last option simply because this might be an Elseworlds film.

I’ve accepted that this will be an elseworlds film with a lot of liberties taken.

But it’s Joaquin Phoenix playing The Joker, so we gotta give it a shot, right? Would certainly say a lot about our society if we didn’t.....

It just recently happened in Gotham.

 
It just recently happened in Gotham.



BriefWildAustraliankestrel-size_restricted.gif


Why is this show still on the air?
 
The only good thing about that Gotham TV show is The Penguin.
 
Gotham has shades of the Nolan trilogy, the comics, the Burton movies, the Schumacher movies, and BTAS. But you have to keep an open mind, it messes with canon a lot. But I ****ing love it. One of my favorite shows ever. Best Jim Gordon and Alfred we’ve ever gotten 100%.
 
It really comes down to two camps...

If you love the campy side of Batman, Gotham is for you... and if you have a dark emo soul, then you go with uber dark serious Batman. :o


And if you are both then Gotham is also for you.
 
It really comes down to two camps...

If you love the campy side of Batman, Gotham is for you... and if you have a dark emo soul, then you go with uber dark serious Batman. :o


And if you are both then Gotham is also for you.

I don't think so. Tone isn't everything. There's also writing, acting, design. That scene where Jerome (that name...) "becomes" the Joker next to Hector Salamanca is one of the cringiest and try-hard things I've ever watched. It fails on every level.
 
I don't think so. Tone isn't everything. There's also writing, acting, design. That scene where Jerome (that name...) "becomes" the Joker next to Hector Salamanca is one of the cringiest and try-hard things I've ever watched. It fails on every level.
Sucks for you! I’m glad I can enjoy a show that has given us the first live action versions of a ton of Batman villains, in addition to a ton of villains we’ve seen before but hadn’t seen in years. The more live action Batman media, the better. It had a good run, but I think it’s good it’s wrapping up this season. It feels fitting.
 
Thing is, elseworlds or not, i respectfully think it's a lazy way to tell a story and ultimately try and cash in/play it safe, that has resemblence to something else. It's like calling kick ass an elseworlds batman and robin movie - does that make sense? It should just be it's own thing, some bloke who works as a clown suffers gross misfortune; drop the name gotham, wayne etc the colours linked to joker...

But, i am hoping this has more to it than it's letting on.

But isn’t that the point of an “Elseworlds” tale? Something that doesn’t adhere to the main canon, stories that subvert our expectations and preconceived notions of established characters and their worlds — presentings things in a different light and playing out various “what if? scenarios. Characters being able to act out of character.

“What if Superman was an agent of Russia?” “What if Batman lived in the 1800s?” What if THIS is how a failed comedian became The Joker in the 80s?” The entire concept of the “Multiverse” was eventually born out of this idea that it’s okay to have multiple versions of these mythologies — multiple earths with some wildly different versions of these characters that still share the same core elements.

Interesting from Wikipedia:

Craig Shutt, author of the Comics Buyer's Guide column Ask Mr. Silver Age, states that true imaginary stories differed from stories that were dreams and hoaxes. Dreams and hoaxes were "gyps" on account of "not having happened", whilst true imaginary stories were canonical at least unto themselves. Also, since they were "just" imaginary and thus had no bearing on the characters’ regular stories, imaginary stories could show things like people dying and the victory of evil. In the optimistic and hopeful Silver Age of Comics, such stories usually would not be told; this was hinted with writers telling readers how such an Imaginary Story often reassured the readers that it did not really happen.

Most of these imaginary stories featured alternate histories of characters, such as "The Amazing Story of Superman-Red and Superman Blue!".[citation needed] There, readers saw possible pasts that could have happened, but did not happen. One such story has Superman being raised by apes in imitation of Tarzan, an idea that would be recycled into a later Elseworlds tale where Tarzan and Superman were switched at birth. Possible present times were shown, such as one story where Jonathan and Martha Kent, touched by pity, adopt a recently orphaned Bruce Wayneand raise him along with their own son, Clark. Thus, the present shows Superman and Batman as brothers, with Clark protecting Gotham and working for the Gotham Gazetteinstead of living in Metropolis, and Batmaninviting his foster parents, the Kents, to live with him in Wayne Manor. In keeping with the fact that imaginary stories allowed for much grimmer stories than usual, the story ended with Lex Luthor killing the Kents and Batman trying to murder him in revenge.


Elseworlds stories can also still have the true essence of the characters despite remixing various details of their origins and characterizations. Books like Gotham By Gaslight and Azarello's Joker book are great examples of this. No reason why this new Joker movie can't be the same.
 
I literally watched the first 3 seasons of Gotham and didn't have an urge to go back. I thought I would but didn't
 
But isn’t that the point of an “Elseworlds” tale? Something that doesn’t adhere to the main canon, stories that subvert our expectations and preconceived notions of established characters and their worlds — presentings things in a different light and playing out various “what if? scenarios. Characters being able to act out of character.

“What if Superman was an agent of Russia?” “What if Batman lived in the 1800s?” What if THIS is how a failed comedian became The Joker in the 80s?” The entire concept of the “Multiverse” was eventually born out of this idea that it’s okay to have multiple versions of these mythologies — multiple earths with some wildly different versions of these characters that still share the same core elements.

Interesting from Wikipedia:

Craig Shutt, author of the Comics Buyer's Guide column Ask Mr. Silver Age, states that true imaginary stories differed from stories that were dreams and hoaxes. Dreams and hoaxes were "gyps" on account of "not having happened", whilst true imaginary stories were canonical at least unto themselves. Also, since they were "just" imaginary and thus had no bearing on the characters’ regular stories, imaginary stories could show things like people dying and the victory of evil. In the optimistic and hopeful Silver Age of Comics, such stories usually would not be told; this was hinted with writers telling readers how such an Imaginary Story often reassured the readers that it did not really happen.

Most of these imaginary stories featured alternate histories of characters, such as "The Amazing Story of Superman-Red and Superman Blue!".[citation needed] There, readers saw possible pasts that could have happened, but did not happen. One such story has Superman being raised by apes in imitation of Tarzan, an idea that would be recycled into a later Elseworlds tale where Tarzan and Superman were switched at birth. Possible present times were shown, such as one story where Jonathan and Martha Kent, touched by pity, adopt a recently orphaned Bruce Wayneand raise him along with their own son, Clark. Thus, the present shows Superman and Batman as brothers, with Clark protecting Gotham and working for the Gotham Gazetteinstead of living in Metropolis, and Batmaninviting his foster parents, the Kents, to live with him in Wayne Manor. In keeping with the fact that imaginary stories allowed for much grimmer stories than usual, the story ended with Lex Luthor killing the Kents and Batman trying to murder him in revenge.


Elseworlds stories can also still have the true essence of the characters despite remixing various details of their origins and characterizations. Books like Gotham By Gaslight and Azarello's Joker book are great examples of this. No reason why this new Joker movie can't be the same.

Well you win for the most eloquent reply on SHH. Respectfully, i understand the concept of else worlds - i just don't think this idea, as presented so far, translates well to the big screen audience, especially at this time - which i know you have the capacity to understand, wether you accept it or not is a different matter. The joker easter egg at the end of begins felt epic - those two need to go hand in hand.
My point is, The green book, tweak a few things and call it 'Cobblepot' - sure, beautiful film, wins awards, but it's not the story of Cobblepot. Anyways, again, respectfully agree to disagree.

For me, a flashpoint banner as an example, where the flash is the common denominator - sending ripples through time and we begin on a series of else world movies i could go ahead with.

But the DCEU as it is, with reboot Batman, with a stand alone Joker, i just see a missed oppertunity - such a glorious actor that could give us an amazing joker, but no where near Batman, that's a shame. I have a slight gut feeling this won't just be a one shot and we may be suprised.
 
*reads the past posts*

Now I remember why I stopped visiting this thread for a while. :o
 

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