The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[Laderlappen]

This is not the real world. This is a sequel to a superhero movie where a fictional city called Gotham was turned upside down by a psychotic clown called the Joker.



Nobody said otherwise. The point being asked is will such a prominent villain who caused so much damage to Gotham and Batman be referenced.



So why did you mention the real world and real life serial killers if the real world is not applicable here?

This would all be more clear to you if you read the post I replied to.

Ra's and Chill didn't leave a lasting impact on Gotham. Gotham didn't know Ra's or the LOS existed. Everyone in Gotham knew and feared the Joker, even the underworld, who would rather get their ankles broken by Batman than cross Joker. Joker affected every area of Gotham. He was killing Cops, judges, he mutilated their beloved district attorney, blew up a hospital, took dozens of citizens hostage, caused a city wide evacuation, murdered Batman's best friend a love of his life, took over the underworld while killing several prominent mob bosses and burned half of their money etc. That's just the antics the people of Gotham know about. There's the whole mess with what he did in breaking Dent and leaving Batman to carry the can for Dent's actions as Two Face.



What on earth makes you think bringing up the Joker will have no relevance to something happening in the movie? For example can you not envision a scene where the whole business of Batman being a hunted criminal for several murders is being dealt with, and Batman mentions he had to take the fall for Dent because Joker would have succeeded in breaking Gotham? Can you not see him discussing the consequences of this with Gordon? Or Alfred? Maybe even confiding in Selina when she asks is he really a killer?

Then there's Bane. He obviously finds out about what happened to Dent if those pics of him standing in public and tearing up photos of Dent is anything to go by. How does he find out about what happened with Dent?



What makes you think it would be pointless? The legacy of the Joker's actions is going to live on in TDKR, or have you forgotten he's the reason why Batman had to take the blame for what Dent did? Can you really imagine talking about what happened to Dent and not mention the Joker, since he was the cause of it all?



Yeah, that's exactly the scenarios we are all imagining it happening in

If there's a point of Joker being talked about, then sure talk about the Joker. However thats not what people are asking for. People are asking for the word 'Joker' to be uttered by a character, like if someone says the word Joker it suddenly becomes a much more well made movie. Its nonsense.

 

[The Joker]

If there's a point of Joker being talked about, then sure talk about the Joker. However thats not what people are asking for. People are asking for the word 'Joker' to be uttered by a character, like if someone says the word Joker it suddenly becomes a much more well made movie. Its nonsense.

I agree. I'm not advocating something like this:

Gordon: "Bane's taken over City Hall. He's got hostages"
Batman: "I'll find a way in. Hey remember the Joker, he was psychotic"
Gordon: "He sure was"
Batman: "Anyway about Bane, I'll use The Bat to take out his Tumblers..."

 

[sqwhale]

People are asking for the word 'Joker' to be uttered by a character, like if someone says the word Joker it suddenly becomes a much more well made movie. Its nonsense.

Well I sure as hell am not. Really don't see anyone that does. I think you are reading into some posts too much.

 

[Tojo]

No-one is saying that at all. At the least, Nolan should make it clear the effect that Joker had on the city, because he is that dominant a character, and really 'changed things forever'- As much as Batman did. But he doesn't have to be mentioned in casual conversation, or even by name at all. I'm sure there are more sophisticated ways of perpetuating Joker's influence.

I wonder what Bane thought about him for instance. In any case, I have a strong feeling that he won't be dwelt upon by the Nolan's. He doesn't need to be, but I think it's wrong to completely disregard the character altogether.

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

I don't see how a "Joker sized elephant" has anything to do with the Joker having a reference in TDKR.

Can someone please fill me in?

 

[jmc]

It's much ado about nothing.

 

[thewhyteman]

I don't see how a "Joker sized elephant" has anything to do with the Joker having a reference in TDKR.

Can someone please fill me in?

Well he was a huge character. Unless he is killed one would expect his dynamic to continue in some way in the story. By this point he has to be obsessed with Batman. If there is a jail break, you know that Joker would escape. He is a mastermind in this verse. So its wondering how they are going to handle that.

 

[Laderlappen]

Well he was a huge character. Unless he is killed one would expect his dynamic to continue in some way in the story. By this point he has to be obsessed with Batman. If there is a jail break, you know that Joker would escape. He is a mastermind in this verse. So its wondering how they are going to handle that.

Easy. He is not in jail, he's at Arkham.

 

[Tojo]

Easy. He is not in jail, he's at Arkham.

So Bane would leave Arkham alone during his takeover of Gotham? I know's on a separate island, but still, it makes more sense to me that he'd want to release all the 'freaks', but maybe he'd realise that Joker is too much of a wildcard to set loose

 

[AnneFan]

maybe he'd realise that Joker is too much of a wildcard to set loose

In Knightfall, I think Bane says he doesn’t think Joker has the discipline to truly rule a city, or something along those lines. I don’t have the book on me at the moment. But yeah, the Joker would go against what Bane wants - to rule with an iron fist and get people behind his cause, whereas Joker creates total bedlam and chaos.

 

[Bads316]

But Scarecrow is surely in Arkham.....

 

[The Joker]

In Knightfall, I think Bane says he doesn’t think Joker has the discipline to truly rule a city, or something along those lines. I don’t have the book on me at the moment. But yeah, the Joker would go against what Bane wants - to rule with an iron fist and get people behind his cause, whereas Joker creates total bedlam and chaos.

You're almost right. When he's watching on TV the chaos Joker and Scarecrow have inflicted in their team up, he is impressed. He says "They do combine well for chaos. With more discipline they could take the city".

 

[elgaz]

Who knows. Maybe we'll see him onscreen again for all we know. Like any film-maker, Nolan no doubt has large quantities of spare footage, test shots and deleted footage with Ledger in them. Would be nice to have a 'cameo' of some kind, if they found an appropriate way to insert the footage without it being glaringly obvious that it wasn't actually designed for TDKR.

 

[RKO]

Bane will mention or reference Harvey Dent in TDKR:

I would not be surprised if The Joker and the events of TDK are also mentioned in some way. It's only natural.

 

[Polux]

The fact that any part of Gotham was attacked by biological weapons is news, especially as wide as the League's attack was. They don't even mention how the train explosion, when it took down the track near Wayne Tower. Batman or Gordon should have been mentioned R'as or The League at least, especially since TDK is only 6 months later. Something like "with R'as it was different" or anything. It bugged me.

Well, as it was mentioned before, the only one who knew about Ra's was Batman, so why would he mention him to anyone, still...

Bruce: "Criminals aren't complicated Alfred, we just to to figure what he's after..."

Repeating his old mentor's teachings, that's all the acknowledge I need to see; anything more than that wouldn't have served the story and would have been nothing but fan service...I can totally live without that.


Polux.

 

[Laderlappen]

So Bane would leave Arkham alone during his takeover of Gotham? I know's on a separate island, but still, it makes more sense to me that he'd want to release all the 'freaks', but maybe he'd realise that Joker is too much of a wildcard to set loose

Well since Nolan has no plan of using the Joker in the movie, its obviously not a good idea to have Bane releasing the patients of Arkham. Even if the Joker was dead or something, Nolan might not think its a good idea in the story he is making to release the arkham patients.

 

[miggizle85]

I don't see how a "Joker sized elephant" has anything to do with the Joker having a reference in TDKR.

Can someone please fill me in?

Do you mean about why Joker being referenced in TDKR, or are you not understanding the use of the term "Joker-sized elephant"?

If it's the latter then I'll try to clear it up. "There's an elephant in the room" is a classic saying that people use. It's used when there is an issue, or a topic, or something of importance that is not being addressed directly as it should be. Imagine if you will that you were in room with other people and there was an elephant standing somewhere in the room. Now imagine that everyone except you completely ignored the elephant. That's kinda the point behind the saying.

Or for a more news-relevant example let's say I pulled a Coach Sandusky and molested a few teenage boys, and let's say you pulled a Penn State athletic department and completely tip-toed around the issue. Well in that case someone could see our situation and use the "elephant in the room" saying. Like "Hey Penn State athletic department, while we're sitting here discussion conference re-allignment, why don't we address the elephant in the room. That of course being what to do about that garbage human being Sandusky".

 

[tnr105]

If Ledger were alive, it'd be cool to have his Joker and Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow teamed up ala Knightfall. It would be neat to have an homage which isn't exactly bane centric.

 

[ThePhantasm]

The Joker is hardly an elephant in the room. You guys are acting like it will be some huge plot hole if he isn't mentioned. That's silly.

 

[TheDragonator]

Easy. Joker's in Arkham.

 

[thewhyteman]

Easy. Joker was just a dream of Bruce's.

 

[Avengers-Report]

Agreed. This is a trilogy. We had a random Scarecrow sighting to connect Begins and TDK. And I'm sure if Heath was alive, we would be seeing The Joker. Not even mentioning Joker, especially when he know Harvey Dent will be mentioned, would be a huge plot hole to me.

 

[El Payaso]

I'm sure we'll hear about The Joker. There's no way around it.

There absolutely is.

 

[Mr.Clay]

All they need to do is slap this on a newspaper:

/thread

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Two things that would make me **** my pants:
1. As Batman is running through Arkham, a faint laughter is heard as he runs by a room.
2. We hear that the Joker escaped at the end.