The Joker Thread - Part 1

Discussion in 'The Batman' started by Thread Manager, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. Sawyer High King

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    I appreciate those close-up pics of Farrell, because I’m pretty sure I can make out Venom in his eye...
     
  2. shauner111 Registered

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    BBT knows I don’t like that Penguin/Joker theory, but I get what he’s trying to say with the shape of the scar. I just don’t like all these villains (especially Penguin) being tied to Joker. I love the drops theory so much and I hope that’s the only thing that connects directly to Mr J. Otherwise, leave him away from everything else. Small doses for now. The development of Catwoman, Riddler, Two-Face, Penguin...just have it separate from the Joker and separate from each other really. At least physically speaking.

    Cobblepot’s scars would be better suited to be a mob hit gone wrong. Showing how resourceful Oswald can be. He’s the enemy to a lot of ppl but he survived one hit, yeaaaars ago. Before there were clowns roaming around.

    Falcone being scratched by Selina is my limit. Of course I’m open to anything but that’s my stance as of now.
     
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  3. Bruce Wayne Now it's dark...

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    Not all roads lead back to the Joker.
     
  4. BigBatTheory Registered

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    It's like, not a stretch at all. It's just a possible explanation that absolutely makes sense for something this world's version of Joker might do. It's a good explanation for the very specific scar shape on Penguin. What else fits that scarring? Whether it's Joker or not it seems like mutilation as opposed to something from a brawl, and then it becomes the question of why cut those scars, why connect the two cuts at the corner like that. Idk it makes sense to me
     
  5. Eddie Dean Jokerfied

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  6. shauner111 Registered

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    It’s probably just a knife wound, attempted mutilation by a gang.
     
  7. Art Vandelay Registered

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    It's a stretch because we don't even know for sure if Joker will be in these movies, let alone that he is the one responsible for Penguin's scars. There's nothing to suggest this, but I appreciate that it's just a theory of yours.
     
  8. BigBatTheory Registered

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    I always think I'm bringing some fun idea to discuss, no matter how believable it might be, and the interaction is always "no lol". Lmao where else do I go to talk about this stuff other than a forum dedicated to Joker in this film series. Like we could discuss the validity of the theory, but we could also discuss what the theory being true could actually mean. I feel like establishing history with those characters could be really interesting, especially if they were to go into it in the GCPD prequel show. Making Joker part of the reason Penguin has a chip on his shoulder
     
  9. SwordOfMorning Returning some video tapes.

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    They're fun ideas but I think you mostly get pushback because while they are cool concepts as an actual, "This is what I think will happen in the movie" theory something like Penguin's scars - which are probably an Al Capone reference, they're similar to his scars - being caused by Joker is a massive, silly stretch.

    If this whole universe is built around Joker to that extent it would frankly start getting kind of silly and annoying. Not to mention now the movie would just feel like a sequel to a movie that doesn't exist.
     
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  10. TheVileOne Registered

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    I think it's mainly being derived from how in the Arkham-verse, Joker was the one who shoved the bottle into Penguin's eye socket giving him a makeshift monocle.

    I'm all for world-building and texture and stuff like that, but it's still sort of early to make these types of inferences.
     
  11. shauner111 Registered

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    Capone is right on the money. And I agree that if you make the drops connected to Joker, then he’s in Arkham, then Mad Hatter is dealing drugs that Joker created, then Penguin’s scar is from Joker...yeah that’s way too much for me. If one of those things were to happen, cool. And all I’m saying is I’d rather stick with the Drops theory.
     
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  12. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Basically, there's a distinction between "legitimate theories about an upcoming actual movie, based in evidence and logic", and "fan fiction". Fan fiction is fine, but its important to keep the two separate.

    Note: "There is nothing that explicitly forbids my theory" is not evidence.
     
  13. shauner111 Registered

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    I think BBT just wants to have fun bringing up theories for us to discuss. Which is cool. I love his theories. But I think I’m just a bit exhausted with all the Joker focus when there’s no confirmation of a Joker yet. I’m burnt out on the character and need a break from this Joker talk. I come to this thread out of habit at this point.

    Maybe I’d get more excited if there were more theories tied to the confirmed villains. Seems more productive to me. I don’t want to get it in my head that Joker is officially in this. And mentally I still want some time away from Mr J so if he does show up in Arkham, I’ll lose my ****. It’s just EVERYTHING is about Joker these days and so connecting Penguin or Riddler to him feels tiresome right now.
     
  14. BatLobster Trailer Timewarper

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    Yes! There are moments in his performance where it's full-on a bad Ledger impersonation. 100%. Glad someone said it.
     
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  15. The Lazarus Pit Registered

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    I am still hoping Drops are tied to Barry Keoghan as Mad Hatter.

    FF2A7FC1-16E2-4C76-839C-59AE7B76F967.jpeg
    B815FCB5-313B-4535-A571-9504071A7CFF.jpeg

    Hallucinogens have always been more of Scarecrow or Mad Hatter’s thing. Joker has stolen fear gas and mind control abilities from both, so if people really want a psychedelic Joker sequence, you could always just have him steal the drugs.

    Drug dealing seems beneath Joker. I’m envisioning him as a charismatic Charles Manson-like cult leader. I also thought Joker (2019) did a great job of showing how disenfranchised Gothamites could get behind a revolutionary like Joker. To many, he’s an insane solution to an insane world. The fact that people are still discussing the merits of Joker’s crusade in TDK makes me kind of want a more sympathetic Joker again. Maybe sympathetic isn’t the right word, but he can be terrifying, sadistic and evil, but also charming in a way that most genius sociopaths are. Joker is able to accept many of the harsher truths that Batman cannot. It’s so much more fun to explore Batman and Joker when they aren’t painted so simply as ‘good’ vs ‘evil’. 8932EEA5-1156-4948-8FAD-C954FCE7D624.jpeg B30C8698-9CBB-4C35-A1E5-5128F625D5BD.jpeg
     
    #11940 The Lazarus Pit, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  16. shauner111 Registered

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    I don’t know if Hatter is in this but I’d make him the drug dealer and Joker the one who created the drug in the first place for A) his own amusement and B) to screw up the minds of citizens. It’s not my theory but it’s the one I’d go with, because Joker wouldn’t deal drugs I don’t think. And Scarecrow making drugs that put a smile on your face but has awful side effects seems like the opposite thing to shoot for. Crane usually inflicts terror through hallucinations. It’s not a drug that ppl want to keep buying. It’s not a good trip.
     
  17. Bruce Wayne Now it's dark...

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    Personally, I always take a few drops before I embark on my latest fan theory. I never share them though. The drops or the theories.
     
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  18. Schlosser85 Registered

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    I could see that.

    Crane does not enjoy making people smile, he gets his rocks off on pure hallucinogenic terror.

    But of course this could be somewhat similar to Joker’s toxin that sends people into a convulsing laughing death and their corpse frozen in a permanent grin. It’s not exactly the same of course, but I could see it being an adaptation of it, and there is precedent in the comics for Joker having chemistry knowledge, so him being a drug dealer wouldn’t be that much of a stretch.

    It would also fit with Mad Hatter though.
     
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  19. Schlosser85 Registered

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    Btw @shauner111, do you still know how Andy's doing?
     
  20. BigBatTheory Registered

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    Okay so info update for those not following it.


    But they have introduced a new street drug into the comics called "Cheerdrops" that have an effect similar to Joker gas, leaving victims with creepy smiles when they OD. But the drug is discovered to be a modified version of Scarecrow's Fear Toxin that has the opposite effect of his toxin, making the user experience extreme happiness and pleasant hallucinations. The drug is super dangerous though and people are accidently harming themselves as a result of taking it among other traditional drug side effects.

    upload_2021-3-28_8-12-33.png

    Now it's possible this plot line was done with knowledge of the movie plot line, especially how DC has talked about creating synergy among different mediums. There is no way of knowing whether this is the exact same Drug and background for it from the film or not. I assume there will be key differences though. But I've made a new theory based around this possibility for Drops and a few other key pieces of information.

    I think Joker might be a type of serial killer who has existed in Gotham for years. This lines up with the Hannibal Lecter influence but is also based on this pic Matt Reeves posted when filming wrapped:
    [​IMG]
    The card contained is a Valentine's Day card obviously left by Riddler at another crime scene. The most simple way to analyze this is that Riddler leaves a crime scene around each holiday. This would tell us the movie takes place over a span of at least 5 DIFFERENT MONTHS. Although this is most likely, I do have another possible theory for the cards.

    We can reasonably assume the film starts around Halloween, with the first card being a Halloween card corresponding to the first killing, and the set leaks that show a Halloween party. But nothing has leaked to indicate they have shot a winter scene, and imo if you are doing Batman during Christmas, you make Gotham snowy. Snowy Gotham is classic and I don't see Matt skipping out on that. The other problem I have is that Matt said this film's plot moves like a snowball rolling down hill. To me, a plot that picks up speed like that, rarely takes place over such a long span of time.

    So my theory is that the Joker is an infamous serial killer in Gotham, who has committed holiday themed killings, or some of his biggest kills took place around holidays, and have been branded with names like "The 1999 Valentines Day Massacre" etc. Joker as a serial killer makes sense on a lot of levels. In his first appearance he was a serial killer who left his victims' corpses with a smile (actually using a chemical, although I lean more towards scarification here, but it could be a mix of both depending on his mood lol). Also Clowns and Serial Killers just go hand in hand in American urban legends. I think Joker would be like Gotham's Jack The Ripper. He'd commit horrible weird crimes and then disappear for months to years before striking again. People thought he would never be caught, until Batman shows up and takes him down in his FIRST YEAR. Taking down Joker is what builds his relationship with the police, and especially explains why the FBI would allow him on the crime scene (FBI are always brought in for serial killers, so they'd have also been involved and known his role in taking down their Most Wanted).

    So with the first card found on Halloween, and it being a Halloween card, nothing is TOO strange about that. But imagine in a couple weeks, they find another body, and now there is a Thanksgiving Card, the next crime scene, there's a Christmas Card. Soon it's the end of November and they're already up to Valentine's Day. All of a sudden a pattern emerges, and other strange clues start to become obvious: the cards and clues are pointing towards Joker. And this is what leads Batman to visit Joker in Arkham. What I think is also cool about this, is in TLH it's the holiday theme that leads the detectives to visit Calendar Man in Arkham, and this would be very similar in that way.

    How Joker being a Serial Killer ties to Drops
    Set photos have indicated that Drops have been around for years. It's possible a young Crane, obsessed with the power of fear, and understandably infatuated with the infamous serial killer Joker, makes Drops in Joker's image, designing it to mimic Joker's M.O., allowing him to capitalize on Joker's terrifying presence in Gotham for his own sick amusement. Joker's presence would be felt throughout Gotham, with even those Goons dressing in his likeness to take advantage of his infamous image.

    I think a Scarecrow focused sequel would show Crane finding his identity and M.O., as he tries to create his own urban legend, taking up the mantle as Gotham's symbol of fear that Joker's capture has left vacant.
     
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  21. BigBatTheory Registered

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    Long post lmao sorry
     
  22. Sterling Archer Registered

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    Pretty sure it was Zsasz who bottled Penguin in the Arkham-verse.
     
  23. TheVileOne Registered

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    No I don't believe it was Zsasz. Zsasz got kicked out of his casino and started his serial killer murder spree not long after.
     
  24. Sawyer High King

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    Hnnnngh
     
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  25. shauner111 Registered

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    Some good looks for this Joker

    9C4EE19E-BC57-4747-835F-A0134BEA1DAD.jpeg

    86563E7B-55CB-45F1-AC17-5DE1623B6CDE.jpeg
     

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