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Discussion in 'The Batman' started by Thread Manager, Feb 3, 2017.
Ugh, no thanks.
Joaquin’s got Manson covered.
No Manson Joker plz
You're honestly not alone. I’m very interested in a Manson inspired Joker. Mostly in the way Manson speaks, but still very much the evil thrill killer we know. I want to see just how far they take it. Also, I’ve wanted a story where Joker killed the Graysons for a long time.
Did Manson actually kill anyone himself, though? Honestly, I just find him so dull, I've never understood how he developed this mystique. Probably because he had so little personality that people projected one onto him.
It doesn’t have to be a 1:1 comparison. Just a point of reference. Him not killing people directly is irrelevant.
I just don't really care that much for people being able to get behind The Joker or him having some super prominent ideology
No one can prove that he did or didn’t. You either believe Manson or you don’t. That doesn’t matter though. The point is who can be used as a grounding force for this version of Joker in this particular story? No one is saying he has to be an exact copy of anyone. Regardless, Matt already knows the the grounding force for his Joker, so we’re just throwing around ideas.
We can’t just have him to show up, laugh and kill a bunch of random people for no reason that fits nothing in the story at all. Yes, we know the greatest elements of Joker and know that there are a load of Joker stories, but something has to drive Joker to do whatever it is he’s going to do and it has to be something we haven’t seen before.
Joker is absolutely random and I don’t know if anyone even remotely close to him in actuality. Though we don’t necessarily need that. A realistic inspiration can play just a minor role in who this version of Joker is. It doesn’t even have to be a murderer. Joker could be a “what if _____ was a serial killer?”.
If movie characters are being used as influence for Penguin then maybe it's the same thing with Joker. Although I will say that THIS
Is actually very intriguing. But again, unless we're told different, I'd rather look to movie characters as inspiration for this new Joker.
That’s fine, but it’s also limited. Even movie characters have some sort of a real world inspiration. Many of the greatest characters do.
I'd argue looking for real life examples is way more limiting but again, maaaaybe Reeves isn't looking at criminals necessarily so idk
Just on the subject of Harley Quinn, I feel like this type of inspiration was vaguely an idea used for Suicide Squad (2016), so knee jerk reaction is that I'd rather not see that, although I'm sure Reeves would handle it better. Likewise, same as Andy I don't mind some punk/new wave influence mixed with some expressionist and noir cinematography in terms of the aesthetics.
I'm not sure that I want to see Harley Quinn in this though, unless they do something very interesting with her. Generally, she's a character I like only in small doses, and to be honest I prefer Joker without her. Most of my favourite stories predate her existence so she's not essential despite that the duo have a certain pop culture status appeal - but that's why I'd rather not see her overall. To be honest, I don't see the need to pair Joker with anyone. That's why Nicholson's Joker having so much interest in Vicki Vale always felt OOC to me, despite the other scenes which are very accurate translations of comicbook Joker to screen. Having said that, there is still dramatic potential with Harley, but I'm not sure this is necessarily the place for it. Imo she would need to be different to Margot Robbie's Harley that's for sure.
If anyone is Manson esque it's Ledger
Willem Dafoe is a treasure.
Even some of the mannerisms are similar
I absolutely love him and love the idea of him as The Joker but I've just seen that suggestion way too many times for me to truly NEED it anymore most of the time, y'know?
He's too old, anyway. Because Dafoe is pushing 70, and it would beg the question what has the Joker been doing all of these years that he's only now caught people's attention? The only way I could see an older Joker working is if Joker was a boogey man like figure, who has somehow eluded capture from the police, and avoided being killed by his fellow criminals. At nearly 70, though, I'm not sure where else you could take such a character, given I'm not sure how much personal growth (or devolution?) you could go through at that age?
There is no need for him to play Joker. He didn't get cast in the most obvious role, but he played Green Goblin, Marvel's Joker and he was amazing.
I'd prefer someone younger anyways. After Leto (I know, I know but the dude's over 50) and Phoenix I'd like to go younger. Ledger was young too but I'd like this new version to FEEL more youthful if that makes any sense at all.
Plus we have a younger Batman. Batman and The Joker should more or less be at very similar points in their life. A young Batman and a 60 year old Joker feels odd to me.
lot of people bring up caleb landry jones to be cast as joker, and he's just a few years younger than pattinson.
i wouldn't be surprised if wb was interested and even screen-tested him at some point.
I wouldn't be surprised if they considered him at one point. I still think he could be cast as SOMEONE in these movies.
For another role?
for joker. but maybe for another role too, who knows?