The Joker Thread - Part 1

Discussion in 'The Batman' started by Thread Manager, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. AndyTrevino This says a lot about our society

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    Caleb can be a younger Scarecrow
     
  2. Mindreaper21 ?????

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    Nah, scarecrow should be in his early 40’s honestly. Go with the professor that experimented on his students.
     
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  3. AndyTrevino This says a lot about our society

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    In that case, Ralph Ineson if they go older (kudos to Shauner for coming up with that choice :cwink:).
     
    #13953 AndyTrevino, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  4. PurpleStar Registered

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    He would be a dead ringer for Arkham Asylum games Joker tbf. But otherwise yeah, Dafoe would have been a good option 20-30 years ago. Joker sometimes looks sort of old ish in how he is typically drawn, but imo for normal Batman runs he shouldn't be older than 40 at the most. On that subject, how old does everyone typically take Joker to be based on how he's illustrated? Specifically in Bronze age stories, just as that's my favourite period ;) ?
     
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  5. AndyTrevino This says a lot about our society

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Bronze Age Joker is in his mid-30s. I think Neal Adams said as such, maybe even younger.

    My ideal Joker lately actually does skew towards the younger side. Early-mid 30s.
     
    #13955 AndyTrevino, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  6. Ryan Registered

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    My biggest gripe with Batman 89 was seeing a middle aged Joker with a paunch. Sorry, it's just not the same. I also wasn't a fan of Gotham because basically all the villains were much older than Bats. I don't mind a character or 2, especially penguin, being older but reading comics as a kid the rogues all seemed to be fairly close in age with Batman. One of the main themes that I liked in the Nolan films is that Batman himself actually inspired the rise of villains. I'd love to see that explored.
     
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  7. PurpleStar Registered

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    Same definitely. Early to mid thirties is my preference too. 40 is the limit to me, unless it's supposed to be a a Batman Beyond situation. I think sometimes Joker can seem older because he's normally drawn with deep laugh lines etc but I think it's just that his expressions are normally so maniacal. I've been drawing lately so I've studied it a bit lol Mostly it's come out a bit Bolland and Neal Adams ish mixed with Dick Sprang. Not gone too crazy on the chin though which is often extremely exaggerated in Bronze age stuff.
     
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  8. PurpleStar Registered

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    Nicholson has a Joker-ish face because he's got the maniacal eyebrows. of course, they also used prosthetics, but he has facial expressions that work anyway. I too wish he was taller and thinner and younger though, then he would have been pretty much visually perfect.
     
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  9. BattleAngel Registered

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    Regardless of age, I feel Joker’s aura needs to imply he’s been around long enough or have seen/experienced so much that he really has cause to have a solidified world view. I’ve always felt like Joker was a philosopher in any of his good iterations. Aesthetics aside, the one thing that ruined Leto for me was his inability to sell that Joker had any kind of actual earned outlook on life or philosophy of the world. If whoever plays him can do that, the art department and Reeves’ direction can probably do the rest.
     
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  10. WatchProtect Registered

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    I figure the perfect age for Joker is whatever age Batman is. They should feel contemporary but I dont need an age placed on him necessarily.

    Ive always thought Joker seemed kinda tired of the world and everything, thats why he tries to look at the Happy side of life. He should seem like he's been beaten down a few times. World weary.
     
  11. AndyTrevino This says a lot about our society

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    I don't really like the implication that The Joker was "beaten down" by life because that implies he was once a normal guy, which in turn makes him feel too human.
     
  12. WatchProtect Registered

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    Isnt that how Joker is usually portrayed though? He was just some guy and one day for whatever reason the Joker was born, maybe out of Anger or Spite or just because he wanted to.

    Im not so much asking for something like Ledger or Phoenix backstory, more so that maybe he takes big sighs before he does something or he walks like he's encumbered and just bored of everything.

    That would change though once he meets Batman and we can Juxtapose his previous behavior with his now Behavior. Maybe he even wants to "help" Batman out of his "Slump" so he can be happy too.
     
  13. AndyTrevino This says a lot about our society

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    I quite like the idea of him being bored when Batman isn't around but not like, depressed. Just bored if that makes any sense at all. TKJ started the whole "but what if......Jocker was a nooormal guy :eek::eek::eek:" idea and everyone just seemed to run with it.
     
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  14. WatchProtect Registered

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    Yeah not really depressed just maybe he lacks the push to really "Wow Gotham" but he sees Batman on the news or hears about him somewhere and thats when the lightbulbs go off so to speak.
     
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  15. PurpleStar Registered

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    That works. Fits in with Joker's obsession with Batman. Even in the first Joker story, Joker obviously enjoys toying with the police and others (it's a misconception that he's just grim and sullen in Batman #1), but he also seems somewhat dissatisfied with these "stupid fools". So, although Batman is initially an annoyance, he soon seems rather fixated.
    The first story which had Joker holding Batman hostage with the possibility to kill him or unmask him and destroy his secret identity is by Bill Finger "Laugh Town Laugh" Detective Comics 62 (which is also one of those early 40s Joker stories which has a fairly high body count btw). Yet he doesn't take this opportunity. Why not? Because "that would be unworthy of my intelligence. And I like these battles of wits. The hunt... The chase... That's the breath of life to me! And I'd like to see how you fare."

    And ever since then, there are plenty of stories which depict something similar and I think every good Joker writer has a good grasp of this quirk of the character. You could read into it that he is dissatisfied with life in someway, and that is why he's gone full steam ahead into this persona and extreme lifestyle and it's also why Batman interests him so much. But at the same time it's not that his behaviour stems from a grim, depressed view of life. No, Joker is a whimsical and vivacious character, which is why he's not always going to kill you, sometimes he'll let you go and it's not clear why he does that. If Joker has any philosophy, it's not "life's a joke, so hate life" (which unfortunately is what's somehow become associated with the character), it's more like "life is absurd, so enjoy the ride". It's more playful than resentful. Joker is a villain, but he's also, well, a Joker.

    I'd recommend that story actually to anyone interested in the history side of things in terms of how the character developed. Not all of the 40s stuff is good. They were obviously figuring out how to flesh out Joker to be a recurring villain, so some stories are a bit meh. Unfortunately I've not seen any good examples of the artwork online though but seems to be a condition issue. Imo Batman 1, this one, The Cross Country Crimes, The Joker's Crime Circus, The Riddle of the Missing Card and The Joker Walks the Last Mile are the best early 40s Joker stories to look at if only for historical interest purposes.
     
    #13965 PurpleStar, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
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  16. BMW 224 Symbol of Vengeance becomes Symbol of Hope

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    I just thought of a possibility that may be fear fetched but it's a suspicion I have.

    I think we may end up getting the Red Hood storyline in this triolgy minus the red hood part.


    And when I mean red hood I mean Joker beating Jason to death with a crowbar.
     
  17. shauner111 Registered

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    There’s no time for Jason in this trilogy.
     
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  18. BMW 224 Symbol of Vengeance becomes Symbol of Hope

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    We're already getting Joker in the first film which I personally didn't expect.

    I think Matt Reeves wants the main core Batman characters in this triolgy which means a Robin would fit.

    And Jason is the easiest one to adapt in one triolgy since his backstory isn't as complicated as other's.

    I don't expect him to come back from the dead like the comics but I think this would give this version of Joker a reason to be considered Batman worst enemy in this universe.

    If the sequel goes full on rising freaks and NMl and also introduces Jason's as someone who lost his family in the flood or something and that's why he's on the streets fighting for territory it could work.

    Than Bruce could take him under his wing transform him to Robin or mabye give him the identity of Red Hood instead.

    Than he could die in the third one.

    I think Matt Reeves could make it fit.
     
  19. Mindreaper21 ?????

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    Way too early for Jason. It’s only Batman’s second year
     
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  20. shauner111 Registered

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    Matt would never skip over Grayson and jump to Todd.
     
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  21. Eddie Dean Jokerfied

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    Any Robin adaptation would take elements from all the Robins
     
  22. BMW 224 Symbol of Vengeance becomes Symbol of Hope

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    If Matt Reeves wants Joker killing a loved one as way to make him Batman most personal enemy like Burton and Nolan did than he will probably go the comic book accurate route because he's fan of the source material.

    Having Joker kill a Robin may be how he wants to achieve this.

    And killing of Dick Grayson would be more of disregard of the comics than skipping dick and having Jason be the only Robin.

    Plus with all the rumors of Batgirl having a Dick Grayson well....

    All I'm saying is my prediction.

    There's more chance of me being wrong than right but I felt like putting it out there just in case.
     
  23. BMW 224 Symbol of Vengeance becomes Symbol of Hope

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    I don't think that matters too much but movie adaptions can make smaller changes from the source material and still work.

    Who knows when the second or third takes place anyways ?
     
  24. PurpleStar Registered

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    It would be interesting to see how Robin could be worked into this as as far as the serious Batman films go, any Robin is normally not included. (Of course he has been used in live action before in the 60s tv show and 1966 film, and Batman and Robin 1997, but I said more serious film lol).
     
  25. Bruce Wayne obligatory anime seizure attack!

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    Speaking as someone who prefers Batman to be lone wolf, I really think people sometimes overexaggerate how difficult it would be to handle Robin in a credible way. Forever handled it pretty decently imo. I mean sure, all the Carrey/TLJ stuff is enjoyably camp, but the Robin stuff is relatively dark and respectfully adapted.
     

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