The Joker Thread - Part 1

[hellblazer103]

And get that Roman Polanski, Woody Allen lover out of this trilogy (Blanchett). I hate cancel culture but i wonder why she gets a pass.

good point, didn't even consider that lol

 

[Juke Box Hero]

It didn’t work for Dylan just like it didn’t work when Swinton tried playing an elderly man in Suspiria. I could tell it was a woman pretending to be a man in both cases.

And get that Roman Polanski, Woody Allen lover out of this trilogy (Blanchett). I hate cancel culture but i wonder why she gets a pass.

No, what I said was the equivalent.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that men don't vastly outweigh the number of female avengers in number and size of role.

And everybody here definitely had no reason for vouching for the possibility of a genderless/genderbent Joker. No acting or story related reasons given at all, everybody just mentioned for funsies like suggesting a male black widow.

My bad.

 

[shauner111]

She’s a celebrity snob. Talented but I can’t stand her.

 

[Captain Tired]

So it IS a political point about representation, and not an apathetic/merit based one like Eddie was initially suggesting it was.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Just tossing a minor idea out there, but depending on the accent itself as well as the actor, I wouldn't mind Joker having a British or Irish accent.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Listen, I can only speak for myself!

And I think one of the best non-Joker Joker performances is Divine, a man playing a woman, in Pink Flamingos and Female Trouble, so wrap your head around that one.

 

[Juke Box Hero]

So it IS a political point about representation, and not an apathetic/merit based one like Eddie was initially suggesting it was.

Thats... not what it is either, unless you want it to be(?).

The whole reason why a female Joker was brought up was for the actress potential in a character that has often been portrayed in various lights, including Bowie-esque, gender bender lights (some aspects that have been mentioned as worthwhile to see on the big screen on here).

By trying to equate that to a male black widow shows that obviously it's just about gender in the first place rather than acknowledging the merits a female/genderless Joker could bring.

And again, it's not about representation in the first place, but everybody knows why it's more damming to take away from minorities/minority characters than it is to do the same to the majority (which again, doesn't apply in the situation)

 

[Juke Box Hero]

If you wanna turn into a representation thing, go ahead but that's nature not the nature of the argument lol.

 

[shauner111]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that men don't vastly outweigh the number of female avengers in number and size of role.

And everybody here definitely had no reason for vouching for the possibility of a genderless/genderbent Joker. No acting or story related reasons given at all, everybody just mentioned for funsies like suggesting a male black widow.

My bad.

My point is even if there was a good enough reason for a male to play Black Widow, everyone would hate it because how dare they change this woman character to a dirty man! And quite frankly there isn’t a good enough reason for a male to play Romanoff. Just like there isn’t a good enough reason for a female to play Joker. They’d be lacking imagination if they can’t think of a male actor to play that villain and act flamboyant. No matter how you spin it, it turns into a gimmick just like the recent Suspiria casting.

OK so Birds of Prey. Mostly female. What if they made Huntress a man?

Catwoman, Talia Al Ghul, Silver St Claire, Batgirl/Oracle, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Andrea Beaumont, Sofia Falcone...should I keep going? There’s plenty of women to write into a story. Choose them instead of rewriting an iconic male villain like Joker to suddenly be a woman. Toni Colette’s 30 thousand faces in the span of 19 seconds couldn’t convince me that she’d be right for the role or convince that she’s not a woman behind makeup.

 

[AndyTrevino]

With the right direction and material I'm sure it could work, but as a stickler for mainly traditional source material I'm just kinda watching from the sidelines.

 

[Captain Tired]

Okay. Well from my perspective, we've had two solid, non-vague reasonings as to why the Joker could be played by a woman: one was that it would simply piss a bunch of people off, and two was a rebuttal arguing for female representation. If you want a female Joker, that's fine, but at least be totally genuine as to why you want it. Don't hide behind a vague claim about the actress bringing something interesting to the part lol.

 

[Juke Box Hero]

And if you feel justified by saying a female joker is on par with a female black widow and providing no other (straw man) argument, congrats for ignoring the aforementioned points and turning into a representation debate yourself.

 

[Eddie Dean]

You’re doing the thing people you fought against in the Jeffrey Wright as Gordon thread where doing, shauner.

If someone can name one attribute of The Joker that would disqualify an actresses from playing the character besides “he was male before” I’ll listen.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Okay. Well from my perspective, we've had two solid, non-vague reasonings as to why the Joker could be played by a woman: one was that it would simply piss a bunch of people off, and two was a rebuttal arguing for female representation. If you want a female Joker, that's fine, but at least be totally genuine as to why you want it. Don't hide behind a vague claim about the actress bringing something interesting to the part lol.

It’s not my fault Elizabeth Moss is a way better performer than most of the names here.

 

[shauner111]

I know the world that I live in. It’s ALWAYS going to be about gender. A casting like that is never just about “hey! She was simply the best person for the role! I couldn’t think of anyone else!” I’m not that naive. Of course it’s about gender.

 

[Juke Box Hero]

My point is even if there was a good enough reason for a male to play Black Widow, everyone would hate it because how dare they change this woman character to a dirty man! And quite frankly there isn’t a good enough reason for a male to play Romanoff. Just like there isn’t a good enough reason for a female to play Joker. They’d be lacking imagination if they can’t think of a male actor to play that villain and act flamboyant. No matter how you spin it, it turns into a gimmick just like the recent Suspiria casting.

OK so Birds of Prey. Mostly female. What if they made Huntress a man?

Catwoman, Talia Al Ghul, Silver St Claire, Batgirl/Oracle, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Andrea Beaumont, Sofia Falcone...should I keep going? There’s plenty of women to write into a story. Choose them instead of rewriting an iconic male villain like Joker to suddenly be a woman. Toni Colette’s 30 thousand faces in the span of 19 seconds couldn’t convince me that she’d be right for the role or convince that she’s not a woman behind makeup.

A) they'd be lacking imagination by doing the same casting choice we've had for every other Joker incarnation we've had before?

B) in what way is the Joker being male vital to his character like Black Widow (or really any other female hero/villain) being female?

Nobody is saying it has to be that way, but there's no reason to shut the door on it or boycott the movie if it happens.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I know it probably goes against the very nature of the character and the superiority complex he often has in the comics but.....

how about a drug addict Joker?? A pill-popper like in that ugly graphic novel?

 

[shauner111]

You’re doing the thing people you fought against in the Jeffrey Wright as Gordon thread where doing, shauner.

If someone can name one attribute of The Joker that would disqualify an actresses from playing the character besides “he was male before” I’ll listen.

Ok here’s one: he’s a man.

Lmao, not good enough? How I feel about casting based on race is not at ALL how I feel about casting gender.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Okay. Well from my perspective, we've had two solid, non-vague reasonings as to why the Joker could be played by a woman: one was that it would simply piss a bunch of people off, and two was a rebuttal arguing for female representation. If you want a female Joker, that's fine, but at least be totally genuine as to why you want it. Don't hide behind a vague claim about the actress bringing something interesting to the part lol.

I think it COULD be pulled off effectively, I just don't really want it. More power to you if you do though; it WOULD be super different, just not my thing.

 

[Eddie Dean]

But shauner!!! If they wanted to use an excellent actor like Jeffrey Wright they could Have cast him as Lucius fox. I’m sorry but Jim Gordon is white, always has been. Well, why can’t he be black? Because he’s white. So I’d like Jeffrey Wright playing Crispus Allen while my choice of Mark Harmon plays Gordon

 

[shauner111]

A) they'd be lacking imagination by doing the same casting choice we've had for every other Joker incarnation we've had before?

B) in what way is the Joker being male vital to his character like Black Widow (or really any other female hero/villain) being female?

Nobody is saying it has to be that way, but there's no reason to shut the door on it or boycott the movie if it happens.

I agree that nobody is saying it has to happen. But I am personally 100 percent shutting the door on it. Not boycotting. I don’t boycott movies. Let them make whatever. And I’ll eventually watch it because I watch every Batman movie. But I’m not paying for it. I’ll download it/stream it and roast it with a cup of the bubblay in one hand and a remote in the other.

 

[AndyTrevino]

We're all friends here. Let's just hug and make up.

 

[shauner111]

But shauner!!! If they wanted to use an excellent actor like Jeffrey Wright they could Have cast him as Lucius fox. I’m sorry but Jim Gordon is white, always has been. Well, why can’t he be black? Because he’s white. So I’d like Jeffrey Wright playing Crispus Allen while my choice of Mark Harmon plays Gordon

Race isn’t gender.

 

[hellblazer103]

I know it probably goes against the very nature of the character and the superiority complex he often has in the comics but.....

how about a drug addict Joker?? A pill-popper like in that ugly graphic novel?

you basically suggested this already when you mentioned Tuco/Frank Booth lol

 

[AndyTrevino]

you basically suggested this already when you mentioned Tuco/Frank Booth lol

That was mainly in regards to him huffing a special formula of his own laughing gas. I'm mainly talking about actual drugs, like the hard stuff that makes people super violent