The Justice League and the Avengers

[Flash525]

If two things are obvious at this point in time, it's firstly that Marvel had a game plan, know what they're doing and it's worked out for them with a very well established expanded universe, whereas DC, via WB haven't quite hit the mark with their expanded universe, and their future seems to be all over the place at the moment with uncertainty on the likes of Superman and Flash, to name a few.

I by no means intend to start a Marvel vs DC debate, so lets all act like adults here and keep our preferences for said comics out of the discussion. What I'm curious about is whether DC/WB could ever catch up and overtake Marvel, or whether they've quite simply missed their one and only chance.

I know DC/WB seem focused on their solo features at the moment (with the exception of Suicide Squad?), but there are fans of the comics and franchise that actually want to see a fully fledged and extremely successful Justice League, and it's my thoughts that we're going to get one at some point, it just might not be anytime soon.

Back to the original question though, even if DC/WB get everything right, build on their individual characters before hand, or even just throw out a Justice League script that astonishes all, is the potential there for a DC/WB film to topple the box office success of Endgame, or, as stated above, has that window of opportunity been missed, forever to be in the favour of Marvel?

 

[Mandon Knight]

Window of 'opportunity' is definitely still available and accessible to WB/DC, but they have to 'believe' in the people they hire (they have clearly learnt or are beginning too on this one, evidence Sandberg & Wan), they f-ed up royally on the first JL, by way of multiple reasons and not really having a fixed direction, a JL2 is possible even from the 'launch' point left in the post credits at the end of JL, but for me, Batman & Superman have to be evident and central to a JL2 film, don't even attempt one if these two are not back on the big screen by the time WB want to do a JL2.

Priority 1 is stand-alone for both of them amongst all that is going on with any other character launch film or sequel idea.

WB/DC as a JL film will never hit MCU levels of money, yes a $1B pay day should be attainable, its the JL for crying out loud but the GA just don't seem to like/digest them as much as the MCU, the MCU has earnt it's following, to date, JL for a GA hasn't. That CAN change, keep on the route of single yet joined building blocks until Superman is back on the big screen (with Supergirl one hopes) and then build back to JL and League of Doom via the accumulated bad guys along the way).

 

[metaphysician]

No. */end thread*

 

[Mandon Knight]

The one film, IF we could ever get it on the table would be a JL v Avengers film, if the two could be persuaded to co-ordinate it all, that would give you the all-time box office gold that both studio's would want.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

Can we please lay to rest the idea that DC can "catch up" to Marvel? The rivalry between the two companies has been framed in this way for years, but after Avengers: Endgame, there should be no more talk of "catching up". Marvel told an epic story encompassing 22 films that led up to the most massive and successful crossover of all time. They're retiring the key heroes of that story. There is no "catching up" to that.

Batman v Superman and Justice League essentially were DC's attempt at "catching up" with Marvel, and their reception shows what a mistake it is to take such an approach. The very phrase "catching up" implies racing or hurrying to get to the same point of someone much farther ahead than you. That's exactly what DC did, and it's now obvious to everyone what a mistake that was. Instead of taking their time and patiently constructing a universe, they threw all these characters together as fast as they could in an effort to replicate the success of The Avengers. They didn't understand that Marvel's success came from laying the proper foundations, by making sure they had characters the audience liked and cared about.

So DC already did try catching up to Marvel, and it blew up in their faces. Ever since they've been trying to distance themselves from what was supposed to be the crown jewel in their universe, Justice League. They've managed to achieve success now ironically by doing what Marvel did: making solid standalone films that endears these characters to the audience. They will never "catch up" to Marvel, because Marvel did it first and that story arc is now complete. What DC can do is learn from Marvel's example and hope to achieve something similarly great in the future.

 

[Kuwolski]

The one film, IF we could ever get it on the table would be a JL v Avengers film, if the two could be persuaded to co-ordinate it all, that would give you the all-time box office gold that both studio's would want.

That would be awesome, but I can seeing both sides being so possessive about the image of their characters vs. the "distinguished competition" (maybe rightly so?) that the project would probably fall apart. I hope it happens one day though, would be off the charts.

 

[Mandon Knight]

That would be awesome, but I can seeing both sides being so possessive about the image of their characters vs. the "distinguished competition" (maybe rightly so?) that the project would probably fall apart. I hope it happens one day though, would be off the charts.

The biggest 'hang up' to the concept would be the whole 'whose characters WIN' at the end, neither side would give in on this and so you'd have an honourable draw as such. Plus what do you do about Box office 'split', the off-screen production contracts would be way too difficult too manage.

 

[Kuwolski]

The biggest 'hang up' to the concept would be the whole 'whose characters WIN' at the end, neither side would give in on this and so you'd have an honourable draw as such. Plus what do you do about Box office 'split', the off-screen production contracts would be way too difficult too manage.

All very true. At the end of the day all these factors likely wouldn't make it worth it to either studio. Sadly.

 

[FunkMiller]

I struggle at this point to see a scenario where DC could ever reach the saturation that Marvel currently have in the market place. It would take years - if not decades - and I doubt the superhero genre will ride as high as it currently does for that long.

Basically, DC screwed the pooch on this one. I don’t see a JL movie ever challenging the box office of The Avengers now.

I can easily see a time when DC dominates Marvel at the box office again via their solo movies... but to top what the MCU has done across the last ten years? Very, very doubtful.

...to tell the truth, I think cinematically DC suits solo projects much better, whereas Marvel suits the team up. DC’s characters are more iconic and stronger on their own, whereas Marvel’s tend to work better when put together. That’s why DC should never have tried to copy Marvel.

 

[Kuwolski]

If DC does do a Justice League film again (which would likely involve sequels), I'll be curious to see how they do going toe-to-toe with the coming X-Men films.

Even if the genre doesn't ride as high as it currently does in the future, eventually streaming platforms will pick up the slack and offer different forms of storytelling creating new interest.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I struggle at this point to see a scenario where DC could ever reach the saturation that Marvel currently have in the market place. It would take years - if not decades - and I doubt the superhero genre will ride as high as it currently does for that long.

Basically, DC screwed the pooch on this one. I don’t see a JL movie ever challenging the box office of The Avengers now.

I can easily see a time when DC dominates Marvel at the box office again via their solo movies... but to top what the MCU has done across the last ten years? Very, very doubtful.

...to tell the truth, I think cinematically DC suits solo projects much better, whereas Marvel suits the team up. DC’s characters are more iconic and stronger on their own, whereas Marvel’s tend to work better when put together. That’s why DC should never have tried to copy Marvel.

The JL are for me, the definitive 'team up', that film should in theory make $1BN with ease, WB f'ed up and they don't really deserve another go.

 

[Iceman]

The JL are for me, the definitive 'team up', that film should in theory make $1BN with ease, WB f'ed up and they don't really deserve another go.

There’s zero reason why a JL introduced to the audience in the right way and with the right buildup and marketing can’t be one of the true Titans out there.

 

[Iceman]

I struggle at this point to see a scenario where DC could ever reach the saturation that Marvel currently have in the market place. It would take years - if not decades - and I doubt the superhero genre will ride as high as it currently does for that long.

Basically, DC screwed the pooch on this one. I don’t see a JL movie ever challenging the box office of The Avengers now.

I can easily see a time when DC dominates Marvel at the box office again via their solo movies... but to top what the MCU has done across the last ten years? Very, very doubtful.

...to tell the truth, I think cinematically DC suits solo projects much better, whereas Marvel suits the team up. DC’s characters are more iconic and stronger on their own, whereas Marvel’s tend to work better when put together. That’s why DC should never have tried to copy Marvel.

I’ve grown up on JL, and while DC solo characters can excel by themselves, I can say with confidence after all I’ve read over the years that it can be done. No film would have succeeded in the Frankenstein’s Monster attempt we got so it isn’t even an indicator of what is and isn’t possible. All my childhood predictions about superheroes on film have come true (for eg that a dark Batman film done right would make a killing and that a team up superhero film would do amazingly), and I am just waiting for JL and X-Men to reach the big leagues (no time limit on that) before I can retire with a 100% record.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Don't get me wrong, I'd die a happy man with a decent JL film and we deserve one and I think WB have it in them but they 'owe' the cinema-going public, big time.

 

[The Duh]

How much over $1 billion should a theoretically awesome JL movie make? If it made Ultron/Avengers 1 numbers ($1.4-1.5 billion) would that be a win or would it be a disappointment in the sense that a awesome JL movie is only about as good as a Avengers movie?

 

[FunkMiller]

Don't get me wrong, I'd die a happy man with a decent JL film and we deserve one and I think WB have it in them but they 'owe' the cinema-going public, big time.

Not really a discussion for here... but I kinda think DC will never actually be able to rival Marvel properly all the time it’s owned by WB.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Not really a discussion for here... but I kinda think DC will never actually be able to rival Marvel properly all the time it’s owned by WB.

They'd have to be 'independent' as Marvel are, which is never gonna happen.

 

[FunkMiller]

They'd have to be 'independent' as Marvel are, which is never gonna happen.

No, I know. Which is why I don’t bother to talk about it. WB will never let that cash cow go... even though they’ve proved time and time again that they are wholly unsuited to running DC in live action.

 

[Iceman]

How much over $1 billion should a theoretically awesome JL movie make? If it made Ultron/Avengers 1 numbers ($1.4-1.5 billion) would that be a win or would it be a disappointment in the sense that a awesome JL movie is only about as good as a Avengers movie?

That would be a success, sure, for a first JL film that is received well. And then sequels could build on that success.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

If DC was its own independent studio, then they would never hire Zack Snyder. Only WB's blind incompetence can produce an actual Snyder trilogy of awfulness.

Hmmm, a dilemma.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Until DC gets a president/producer to map out a plan of attack to build a shared universe, they won't ever rival what Marvel is accomplishing at the moment. WB seems to have given up on the shared universe since almost all their future projects are now unconnected film franchises and one-offs.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They might overcome contemporary Marvel some day, but I can't see DC ever accomplishing what Marvel just did. Firstly, because Marvel did it first and being first matters. Secondly, because DC already botched their first attempt and once again there can only ever be one first time to have the Justice League on screen. Even if they get it right in the future, it won't have quite the same magic. Not for any of us who have lived through this anyways. Maybe for our grandkids it will.

 

[FunkMiller]

If DC was its own independent studio, then they would never hire Zack Snyder. Only WB's blind incompetence can produce an actual Snyder trilogy of awfulness.

Hmmm, a dilemma.

its true to say that the powers that be at WB are not comic book fans. If they were, Snyder's pitch wouldn't have got off the ground.

Problem is, there aren't that many comic book people in positions of actual power in Hollywood, and the ones that do exist are all at Marvel!

 

[Timebomb]

Agree with a lot of what's being said here. Look, I don't think anybody will be able to replicate what Marvel just did. Not even Marvel, but if anybody is going to do it, it will be Marvel again. WB definitely has the product, I just don't think they have the pieces in place to execute. As with Marvel, everyone is still in place and the future is still bright. Look who they just got back from Fox.

 

[psylockolussus]

Wb can't even film the Flash the movie. As far as I am concerned WB's DC films are completely behind. Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Shazam are nice debut solo films, but Marvel have done good solo films three times more and there are so much more to look forward in the future, then there's the four Avengers films Marvel is just in a different level.