Justice League The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 50

[Tra-El]

Exactly. One thing Zack's got going for him, the people who work with him dont have a single bad thing to say about him and it seems like everyone, from the actors all the way down to the concept artists all believed in his vision and are just as upset that it didnt get released.

Zack got a ton going for him. He's one of the most talented directors in the business and is very well liked behind the scenes. Top people in the industry would work with him in a second and probably not think twice about it. At this point in time and in hindsight, right now, he just needs a change in genre and needs to get away from the superhero landscape. Taking a crack at things like horror, mystery or period pieces would be more up to his standards to play around with other than challenging pop culture superhero icons in ways the audience is not yet accustom to.

 

[kguillou]

Zack got a ton going for him. He's one of the most talented directors in the business and is very well liked behind the scenes. Top people in the industry would work with him in a second and probably not think twice about it. At this point in time and in hindsight, right now, he just needs a change in genre and needs to get away from the superhero landscape. Taking a crack at things like horror, mystery or period pieces would be more up to his standards to play around with other than challenging pop culture superhero icons in ways the audience is not yet accustom to.

Couldnt agree more. It was an intetesting experiment albeit one that unfortunately didnt bear fruit. Get Zack on a gritty crime thriller though and he'd eat that up.

 

[_Superman_]

What's funny is I've been here since yr 1 of SHH and before Superman Returns the fans wanted Singer to do the next Superman movie because of X2 and then after Superman Returns split the fan base some fans wanted to move away from Donner and start over and wanted their own Batman Begins for Superman. A Superman who punched more, a more serious/down to Earth take on Superman and wanted Nolan to be involved then most fans in the same wanted Snyder to direct the movie. It's just interesting to sit back and think and remember these things.

 

[2kt09]

What's funny is I've been here since yr 1 of SHH and before Superman Returns the fans wanted Singer to do the next Superman movie because of X2 and then after Superman Returns split the fan base some fans wanted to move away from Donner and start over and wanted their own Batman Begins for Superman. A Superman who punched more, a more serious/down to Earth take on Superman and wanted Nolan to be involved then most fans in the same wanted Snyder to direct the movie. It's just interesting to sit back and think and remember these things.

I certainly wasn't into this as much. I recall watching the X-movies and noticing a difference around the time Returns was released.
Sure, the spectacle seemed astounding, but it felt even less of an ensemble.
It wasn't aiming to ground things, but it felt more hollow than anything Singer's done prior to and even since.
MoS needed to be balls to the walls.

 

[kguillou]

I actually think Singer would've made a good sequel had he been given the chance. I think he was just overly concerned with reestablisbing the Donnet Superman before getting into the meat and potatoes people wanted to see. He said that he wouldve brought in Darkseid in the sequel and I think he would've done a decent job (then again, seeing what he did to Apocalypse, the physical rendering of DS mightve been...not so good lol)

 

[BH/HHH]

I don't think he would have, Singer makes one paced films, I don;t think the guy has a clue how to make a huge spectacle. Even X2 which is well regarded by many doesn't really up the stakes from the first X-Men, its just longer.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

Singers SR would have benefited from simply following what Singer actually promised the film would be about back in 04/05 which is a movie about how the world reacts to his return. In the film everyone is immediately accepting of his return despite the fact that he left without any reason from the world's perspective. The only person who shows any kind of resistance to his return is Lois and it's not because he left the world, it's because he left her, which kinda makes her a ****ty person imo. Have Luthor use some of that distrust against Superman to further his own cause and throw a physical villian at him too. Would have made SR a hundred percent better film. As it is it's a cheap romantic cliche film and it's boring.

 

[Aurakles]

I think the big mistake of Superman Returns was linking it to the Donner films. I think if Singer had went in with a clean slate he could have made a much better film.

 

[BH/HHH]

I think the big mistake of Superman Returns was linking it to the Donner films. I think if Singer had went in with a clean slate he could have made a much better film.

I actually disagree with this making a semi sequel to the Donnerverse doesn’t make a difference to the film. The issues with the film are his characterisations of the characters and the story. Add in things like lack of action too and it’s a recipe for blandness. Singer didn’t even have Superman act anything like the Superman from the Donnerverse and for that matter neither did Lois. The world even felt different. I think one of his biggest problems was probably not embracing those aspects more.

 

[2kt09]

You get to see what the man of steel / the man with the world(s) on his shoulders is capable of, but the characterizations all around were so awfully timid.
If he and the rest of the X-staff applied what they ended up doing for X-Men, there would have already been a Superman "Begins"

 

[kguillou]

Him basing it on the Donner verse had nothing to do with how audiences received the movie. Post Raimi Spiderman 1 and 2, Xmen 1 and 2 and Blade 1 and 2, audiences were craving for a more fun, action filled superhero film. Singer for whatever reason wanted to make this movie a more romantice/introspective film rather than an action movie. Its sort of like how Ang Lee went against the grain with Hulk 2003, he wasnt concerned with making that a conventional superhero movie but more of an adult drama and audiences rejected it because we wanted to see Hulk smash not lament on father issues.

 

[Flint Marko]

Agreed. The problem with Superman Returns is that it was just a dull movie overall, and throwing a super kid into the mix just seemed like a surefire way to end the franchise before it ever really began.

However I still think it's the best Superman movie since Donner, Singer's second best superhero movie after DoFP, and the best live-action Lex we've ever got.

 

[kguillou]

I didnt like the movie when it first came out, like most audiences i was bored by it. But rewatching it on video, I've really come to appreciate it. Its a solid movie, its just.....not the one audiences wanted in 2006. Its also Singer's prettiest looking film, the cinematography is gorgeous.

 

[Flint Marko]

I didnt like the movie when it first came out, like most audiences i was bored by it. But rewatching it on video, I've really come to appreciate it. Its a solid movie, its just.....not the one audiences wanted in 2006. Its also Singer's prettiest looking film, the cinematography is gorgeous.

Agreed. I also really love the production design - even though the Super suit looks like a halloween costume, the overall timeless/retro aesthetic of the movie is fun and immersive. It's a real mixed bag of a movie but I can't deny that I find myself returning to watch it every now and then.

I forgot who first said this, but if I got drunk and watched Superman Returns and Man of Steel side-by-side on 2 screens than I think my brain could mash them together into a good movie.

 

[_Superman_]

Superman Returns is a very good movie and personally I think along with Man of Steel and Batman v Superman and Earth One gives us one of the best Superman stories and if you watch S:TM, SII: TRDC, and SR back to back to back it all mashes up pretty well. My main problem with SR is the same with JL and BvS: TC is a lot of important stuff landed on the cutting room floor and should've been in the movie.

 

[Micromind]

I have defended SR and MoS but I agree that both movies could have been better with addition of few more scenes. In case of SR, it needed some action scenes where Superman threw some punches and for MoS, it needed some lighter moments and more interaction with people of metropolis. That Burger ad Snyder did for MoS showed Superman sharing a moment with ordinary construction workers of Metropolis, such moments were needed in the movie.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

One thing I was hoping we'd get in MOS that we didn't and I'm surprised it's not brought up more often here, is how involved Joe El is in the film. I was hoping for a movie where Clark decides to become Superman off his own back, because he just wants to help but instead we got another Jor El tells him it's his destiny BS. It feels more like a weight being forced into him rather than a decision he takes on himself. I'm tired of that. Not El was to all knowing imo.

 

[2kt09]

One thing I was hoping we'd get in MOS that we didn't and I'm surprised it's not brought up more often here, is how involved Joe El is in the film. I was hoping for a movie where Clark decides to become Superman off his own back, because he just wants to help but instead we got another Jor El tells him it's his destiny BS. It feels more like a weight being forced into him rather than a decision he takes on himself. I'm tired of that. Not El was to all knowing imo.

He was already going around the country doing just that. The suit, heck the logo, only confirmed the symbol.

 

[Predator jp]

everybody tell Clark what to do and think in both MoS and BvS.

 

[Micromind]

everybody tell Clark what to do and think in both MoS and BvS.

He saved the school children from drowning without anyone telling him to save them, and he saved those workers at Oil Rig from fire without anyone telling him. So, it's not like he was not saving people before Pa Kent / Jor El told him to.

 

[idiot09]

LOL other people never said anything about saving people, its the CONSEQUENCES of doing that

 

[Aurakles]

Jor-El and Zod offer Clark two different paths, he chooses Earth over Krypton.

 

[Flint Marko]

Superman saves people and then everyone talks at him about what he supposedly means while he silently stands there looking mildly annoyed.

Lather, rinse, repeat for two straight movies.

I said this in another thread but the answer for most of DC woes at the moment is very simple: cast a new Superman and Batman, and then move forward on those projects. That's it. Repair the broken 2/3 of the trinity. Once you do that everyone will stop mulching over what went wrong in the past and start building hype towards the future.

 

[_Superman_]

Since JL is about to come out might as well start with the lead up.

 

[matt47]

One thing I was hoping we'd get in MOS that we didn't and I'm surprised it's not brought up more often here, is how involved Joe El is in the film. I was hoping for a movie where Clark decides to become Superman off his own back, because he just wants to help but instead we got another Jor El tells him it's his destiny BS. It feels more like a weight being forced into him rather than a decision he takes on himself. I'm tired of that. Not El was to all knowing imo.

I think Clark already decided he is going to help people no matter what early on in Man of Steel. But his main goal was to find his purpose on Earth and his heritage on Krypton. Once he found out his purpose on Earth is to guide them to a better world he was pretty chuffed. I mean it lined up with exactly what he wanted to do in life.