The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 5

[Spiderine]

But that movie still came out, right? And it was undoubtedly a flop.

Was Fox making that film just to keep the rights or something? There clearly was no real effort on their part. 30 million dollar budget and the film made something like 50 million.

 

[Spiderine]

I have a feeling they're trying something very similar here. The $100 million budget that we've seen was based on a release from Baton Rouge - the clear intention being that Fox and Baton Rouge were saying "look at this big-budget film that will have a positive impact impact on the local economy"

But this film clearly is NOT having an impact on the local economy. It's practically invisible.

There seems no reasonable doubt at this point that FF will have a very low budget and try to squeeze as much value out of the name with as little investment as possible.

So whats to stop Fox from making a ****** film just to keep the rights? 30 or 40 million dollar budgets? This is like Roger Corman all over again. Ok.....not as bad as that but still same principle. Didn't they have to convince them not to release that Corman film and got the rights back? There had to be new stipulations in the contracts for these issues not to happen.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Was Fox making that film just to keep the rights or something? There clearly was no real effort on their part. 30 million dollar budget and the film made something like 50 million.

That's exactly why they made it. The Dragon Ball rights were about to expire.

 

[Donut]

I wonder if fox will just use the same warehouse for all of the movies they make just to keep the rights

 

[Eddie]

I wonder if fox will just use the same warehouse for all of the movies they make just to keep the rights

DBE filmed in an old jeans warehouse in Mexico. Fox is pretty good about spreading the love to abandoned warehouse owners all over North America. If they still have Cowboy Bebop we'll probably see a crew setting up in some Rhode Island office supply warehouse before too long.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So whats to stop Fox from making a ****** film just to keep the rights? 30 or 40 million dollar budgets? This is like Roger Corman all over again. Ok.....not as bad as that but still same principle. Didn't they have to convince them not to release that Corman film and got the rights back? There had to be new stipulations in the contracts for these issues not to happen.

I actually think the 'keeping the rights' idea is a little overstated. I think that if their primary motivation was having the rights long-term, they'd be investing more and creating a franchise. They might even be willing to take a loss on this film with the idea that they could set up for films that will be more profitable in the future.

I see this as more of an end-game. I think they have numbers somewhere that say the FF name, at this moment in time, is worth $XXX million at the box office so that if they keep the cost low enough, they can make a lousy but profitable film. Of course that will kill the value of the name, but I think they're playing the short-game and don't care what damage they do to the name long-term.

I would use an anology of a lake filled with bass. If you want to keep the bass population thriving, you can take a few out this year, a few out next year, etc. etc. etc. and always have fish. If you take all of them out this year, you'll have nothing left for the future.

I think Fox intends to take all of the bass out before returning the empty lake to Marvel.

 

[Zarex]

I think Fox intends to take all of the bass out before returning the empty lake to Marvel.

This sounds about right. If the rights reverted this year (AS THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO!), Feige and company could have turned the FF family of characters into another successful MCU franchise within a few years time. That would have made FOX execs look foolish for misusing the IP and then sitting on the rights for so long. And a stronger MCU would further marginalize the X-Men character family licensed to FOX. Who knows what will happen now?

 

[metaphysician]

I still think the central issue isn't making money off the movie. Its making money off Marvel buying the rights back. Fox still holds out hope that Marvel will, eventually, cave and write them a big 9 figure check for the Fantastic Four license.

 

[starscream22]

The crazy thing about that is it probably broke even (if not made a very small profit). Fox seems to have lied about the budget. They were saying it was going to have a $100 million budget (which, oddly enough, is the same thing we're hearing with The Fantastic Four) and the actual budget was allegedly a meager $30 million. With such a tiny budget for a film with that name recognition worldwide, they probably made their money back with the home release and merchandising deals.

Yeah this is the worse case scenario here. Sony's gotten fat off of churning out those poor quality, low budget Resident Evil films the pass 12 years. The last 2 had a $60M budget which they've tripled and even quadrupled in the box office world wide. Sure they're critically panned and hated by many but with those results do you think Sony cares???!

It's possible that this is what FOX is trying to emulate now given the "grounded" tone they're throwing out there for this reboot.

Can't really blame Marvel for their reaction to this.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I still think the central issue isn't making money off the movie. Its making money off Marvel buying the rights back. Fox still holds out hope that Marvel will, eventually, cave and write them a big 9 figure check for the Fantastic Four license.

I don't doubt this is part of what's going on. The big question is, if Marvel doesn't come through with the check (as it seems they won't if they haven't by now), will Fox give up, fold and say: "Well played Marvel. You called our bluff." or will they continue to make and go through with releasing a complete crap film to get whatever value they can out of it?

 

[Eddie]

I don't doubt this is part of what's going on. The big question is, if Marvel doesn't come through with the check (as it seems they won't if they haven't by now), will Fox give up, fold and say: "Well played Marvel. You called our bluff." or will they continue to make and go through with releasing a complete crap film to get whatever value they can out of it?

Sadly, I think it's that one. If they can release Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li (which is way worse than the new FF can possibly be) they can release this.

 

[starscream22]

I think Fox intends to take all of the bass out before returning the empty lake to Marvel.

Well, Blade, Punisher and Ghost Rider where definitely "empty lakes" by the time Marvel got those back. Daredevil I'd say had a few left swimming with one fin remaining. Which is why it's easier to reboot it.

The rest like Kevin Fiege has stated were in bad shape so it'll be a longer while to release it.

 

[Zarex]

Well, Blade, Punisher and Ghost Rider where definitely "empty lakes" by the time Marvel got those back. Daredevil I'd say had a few left swimming with one fin remaining. Which is why it's easier to reboot it.

The rest like Kevin Fiege has stated were in bad shape so it'll be a longer while to release it.

I think that Blade (Dr. Strange), Ghostride (Dr. Strange) and Punisher (Netflix series) will show up in the MCU over the next few years as supporting characters. That may be where we are headed with the FF.

 

[The.Brotherhood]

When the FF rights returns, expect that Cosmos properties like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Skrulls and the Badoons will have special treatment ASAP in the MCU due to what they are heading, INFINITY GAUNTLET.


The FF may take a back seat but their Rogue Galleries is what really the MCU wants and needs at the moment.

 

[Eddie]

When the FF rights returns, expect that Cosmos properties like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Skrulls and the Badoons will have special treatment ASAP in the MCU due to what they are heading, INFINITY GAUNTLET.


The FF may take a back seat but their Rogue Galleries is what really the MCU wants and needs at the moment.

The Badoon will show up pretty fast if those rights revert. Technically they've already been introduced to the MCU in a tie-in comic (where the film rights don't matter).

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Well, Blade, Punisher and Ghost Rider where definitely "empty lakes" by the time Marvel got those back. Daredevil I'd say had a few left swimming with one fin remaining. Which is why it's easier to reboot it.

The rest like Kevin Fiege has stated were in bad shape so it'll be a longer while to release it.

By the time Marvel gets the rights back to something from these crappy 20th century deals it's damaged goods. That's the way it's always been. It really irks me when MCU haters say "I'd rather Fox keep the FF because Marvel's not even using the other characters they already got the rights back for. Daredevil's only getting a TV show. What about Blade, Punisher, Ghost Rider etc.?" After other studios have pretty much raped the properties clean. You can't repair that overnight. Look how long it's taken for Marvel to work Hulk back to respectability and he was a marquee Marvel property.

It would've been far better if Marvel could have reclaimed the rights before this reboot started. If this FF reboot ends up as awful as it looks right now and if it tanks as a result and if Fox is actually "magnanimous" enough to give up the ghost and let the rights go home - It won't matter at that point. The brand will become so toxic it will be many years, possibly decades before Marvel can salvage it and make a respectable franchise.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

When the FF rights returns, expect that Cosmos properties like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Skrulls and the Badoons will have special treatment ASAP in the MCU due to what they are heading, INFINITY GAUNTLET.


The FF may take a back seat but their Rogue Galleries is what really the MCU wants and needs at the moment.

As an FF fan, the prospect of Marvel raiding the FF fridge for its rogues gallery because Fox didn't pay the electric bill and the main course spoiled, is very unappealing. Fox have been terrible stewards of this property and I for one will never forgive them if they taint it beyond repair.

 

[Spiderine]

I actually think the 'keeping the rights' idea is a little overstated. I think that if their primary motivation was having the rights long-term, they'd be investing more and creating a franchise. They might even be willing to take a loss on this film with the idea that they could set up for films that will be more profitable in the future.

I see this as more of an end-game. I think they have numbers somewhere that say the FF name, at this moment in time, is worth $XXX million at the box office so that if they keep the cost low enough, they can make a lousy but profitable film. Of course that will kill the value of the name, but I think they're playing the short-game and don't care what damage they do to the name long-term.

I would use an anology of a lake filled with bass. If you want to keep the bass population thriving, you can take a few out this year, a few out next year, etc. etc. etc. and always have fish. If you take all of them out this year, you'll have nothing left for the future.

I think Fox intends to take all of the bass out before returning the empty lake to Marvel.

But that's kind of the issue with "keeping the rights". I see Fox having no real intention in creating a profitable franchise. Make this ****** film on a small enough budget and maybe reap a small enough profit on it. As far as the long term goes you keep it away from Disney another 7 years waiting for them to pony up the cash.

Disney may have to wait to do anything with the FF property itself but there are still some very very valuable supporting characters they want to get their hands on and Fox undoubtedly knows that. There can still be a payday for them if Disney wants to begin thinking phase 3 and beyond. If there have been talks going on between these studios then Fox knows what Disney ultimately wants. They are determined to get something after the Daredevil loss.

I will reiterate what I have been saying before, the GOTG results will play into this for Disney.

 

[starscream22]

When the FF rights returns, expect that Cosmos properties like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Skrulls and the Badoons will have special treatment ASAP in the MCU due to what they are heading, INFINITY GAUNTLET.


The FF may take a back seat but their Rogue Galleries is what really the MCU wants and needs at the moment.

BINGO! And as long as FOX is making grounded low budget crap, the characters that you've mentioned won't see the light of day let alone be done justice.

I really hope that Marvel does motion to have Fox remove their name from this reboot. The measly amount they're likely to get from this film if anything isn't worth it anyway.

 

[Khonshu]

When the FF rights returns, expect that Cosmos properties like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Skrulls and the Badoons will have special treatment ASAP in the MCU due to what they are heading, INFINITY GAUNTLET.


The FF may take a back seat but their Rogue Galleries is what really the MCU wants and needs at the moment.

My primary interest in the FF property is for Doom and Silver Surfer - I feel like inheriting these two alone would be worth reclaiming the property.

 

[starscream22]

But that's kind of the issue with "keeping the rights". I see Fox having no real intention in creating a profitable franchise. Make this ****** film on a small enough budget and maybe reap a small enough profit on it. As far as the long term goes you keep it away from Disney another 7 years waiting for them to pony up the cash.

Disney may have to wait to do anything with the FF property itself but there are still some very very valuable supporting characters they want to get their hands on and Fox undoubtedly knows that. There can still be a payday for them if Disney wants to begin thinking phase 3 and beyond. If there have been talks going on between these studios then Fox knows what Disney ultimately wants. They are determined to get something after the Daredevil loss.

I will reiterate what I have been saying before, the GOTG results will play into this for Disney.

This is true, so if GOTG makes anything North of $500M, it would be huge. Only problem with that is that Fox might get another bright idea and decide to develop a Silver Surfer film to capitalize off it. Along with burning Marvel and their fans once again.

.....Did I mention that I really hate FOX?

The next few months will determine if I support any of their films in the future and not just boycott their pseudo Marvel ones.

 

[the gael]

I don't doubt this is part of what's going on. The big question is, if Marvel doesn't come through with the check (as it seems they won't if they haven't by now), will Fox give up, fold and say: "Well played Marvel. You called our bluff." or will they continue to make and go through with releasing a complete crap film to get whatever value they can out of it?

Marvel won't try any negotiation before fall 2015 at best. They have been clear on that and never changed their position. They want to see if Fox will dare the "theatrical release". Without any "theatrical release", there won't be any renewel of the rights and the rights will return to Marvel in 2015... for free ! So Marvel would be dumb not to wait (even if it's frustrating for the fans, and it is)

If the movie is released, then Marvel will need to pay, and will probably enter in negociations, because Fox will want to sell the right (for far less than what they could have before the "reboot", because it's safe to say that after this crap the franchise won't be as profitable that before)

Will Marvel agree or not, that is another question...

I'm pretty sure, on the other hand, that the rumor of the FF title being cancelled is a message to the fans that Marvel want their property back, is with them, but also need them to "be their prophete", and sabotage Fox BO as much as they can by badmouthing it and reveal what is just a big fraud

 

[Xeno-noesis]

So...June 15th is coming up real fast. That is the seven-year anniversary of FF:ROTSS, with seven years being the likely magic number for the film rights reverting.

It boggles my mind how this film (which all require public awareness, interest, and need audience attendance in theatres to be succesful) has no information released, no photos, no logo, and no title.

 

[Mysteryman]

The latest FF film is in production .
The rights are not going to revert on Sunday .

 

[starscream22]

So...June 15th is coming up real fast. That is the seven-year anniversary of FF:ROTSS, with seven years being the likely magic number for the film rights reverting.

It boggles my mind how this film (which all require public awareness, interest, and need audience attendance in theatres to be succesful) has no information released, no photos, no logo, and no title.

And during the few instances where someone tied to this film is interviewed it's like pulling teeth!

"Uh....well, it's gritty, it's down to Earth.....oh yeah and gritty..........I said gritty right."

I don't know about 6/15 being the kill date though. But worse case scenario 6/18/15 will be the end of this.