The Leaks and Spoilers discussion (*MAJOR SPOILER WARNING*)

[Iceman]

Think of why the Children of the Forest made him. They were at war with the First Men. Out of desperation they turned a First Man into the NK. Intending the NK to destroy the First Men. But the Children werent able to control him and he created other white walkers and wights and subjugated the North creating a perpetual winter. This led to the Long Night. Eventually the Childeen and First Men seem to have locked the White Walkers in the North behind the Wall.

I dont think the NK wants a kingdom. He is like a virus. He was created to destroy mankind. And he is trying to do what he was created to do. Anything in his way is destroyed or turned into a wight. I think that makes him much much more frightening. He isnt evil. He isny greedy. He doesnt think in terms of right and wrong. And he can't be bargained with.

Can he be vaccinated against?

 

[Shoguncrosse]

OOOO a spoiler thread - good Ok, so, Jon Snow is going to be the third betrayal to Dany - In order to save the realm, he'll have to bargain with the Night King (how you say?) well, once Jon recognizes that the Night King is really Bran, stuck within the Night King when he travels into the past to attempt to stop the Night Kings creation by the Children of the Forest, and wargs into the first man (from season 6), Jon and the Night King will come to an agreement of sorts in order to stop the armies of the dead and keep more from rising up. (only killing the night king can stop the entire army from rising up - since you can burn them, you can kill them with dragon glass and valerian steel, but any normal man or woman who dies will still rise up to become a white walker so unless you kill everybody in the realm, the only way to stop it is to stop the Night King) so, in realizing that the Night King is Bran, Jon will come to the agreement of finding the children of the forest, or what remains of them, in order to release the Night King from this multiple thousand year old curse set upon himself for trying to stop the entire whitewalker fiasco, since, by this time Bran will have gone mad (hence partially the reason for the attacking!) and he will do anything to be released from this self given curse - believing the only way to do this is to destroy the realm and appease the Other (who is the god of winter basically) before the god of winter will release him. BUT Jon finds out that this god is locked away in Winterfells crypts, bound by the magic of the children, and a blood ritual on the first stark (Brandon the Builder, also Bran - but we'll get there in another post) binding it there, only able to break free when a stark is not at winterfell, which, in this case, the magic is weakened and can be broken by destroying the crypts and the dead starks who guard it (the dead starks buried there obviously count as a stark in winterfell - guarding the god of winter, the Other from escaping) When a living stark is not at winterfell, (if anyone has noticed) the spell begins to break slightly, already releasing winter far faster than ever before (winter began to descend upon the realm far faster once winterfell was without living starks after theon took it over and the remaining stark boys fled! This caused a ripple effect and a series of events that began to break the spells that bind the Other...THEN, when Ramsay burnt winterfell, the chains broke even more, as the gargoyles protecting the entrance of the crypts were destroyed and were part of the binding. This also caused winter to come EVEN quicker, which can be seen if one notices that the walkers and the cold winter they come in on begin to occur more rapidly and more often in G.O.T. scenes. SO, Jon bargains to find the remaining children of the forest to end the curse they gave to the first man for him to become the Night King by convincing the Night King that he can do this by using the same ritual performed by the children as well as the ritual that binds the Other (binding the curse essentially and allowing Bran to warg out, and/or, the Night King to turn back into a normal man. BUT, Dany does not agree, and so they become divided - Jon basically betraying her for his brother as well as to stop the armies of the dead all with one blow per say. Dany believes Bran is too far gone and so attempts destroying him along with the rest of the armies anyhow, causing the divide to become a war between ice and fire, where neither side is completely the good guys, nor the bad guys at this point. In this battlem the crypts will become destroyed by Danys dragons - in a battle between them and the Night King and his resurrected dragon, and once the crypt and the bodies within are burnt and gone, the Other will be released. Bran will at this point be able to warg out of the Night King, dropping the armies instantly, as the Other no longer needs the Night King to free him (the Others agenda in the first place - known by the first man and the reason the first man went to find the children in the first place!) so, Dany, Jon, their remaining forces, the children that remain, and the now returned Bran must stop the Other or else winter will never become spring, and will always remain until the world freezes over. At this point, i couldnt say what may occur exactly, but can say that in the end Bran will be able to warg into the Other itself, and essentially become winter, and thus controlling the Other and its godly forces (with an inner struggle) but Bran will win out with the help of Dany and Jon and the others, and he will rescind winter, allowing spring to come forth and ending the Others deadly winter forces. Thus, again, as in the ancient days, this will occur at winterfell, where winter has fallen before when the Other was trapped and bound in the crypts by Bran the Builder and the children.

 

[Shoguncrosse]

Posted this comment in wrong thread so reposting here...Just curious as to whether anyone has posted any speculations, guesses, or anything as to what will happen in final season but couldnt find anything even in this spoiler thread. Does anybody think they know what may happen, and why etc? Id love to read the speculations, and what they believe will go down in final season - I wrote fairly extensive but to the point speculation above which could be discussed further - but wanted to read others' possible storylines theyd like to see happen or think will happen

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The inside the episode for Beyond the Wall, they talk about how "Coldhands" achieved peace from the limbo he was stuck in by dying to save his nephew.

Fxck, I'm not happy about this. It would be way cooler if Benjen turned into a white walker

 

[Mjölnir]

Fxck, I'm not happy about this. It would be way cooler if Benjen turned into a white walker

I wouldn't have liked that too much and it doesn't fit with how they are replenishing their kind. If he didn't die he'd just have become another wight, just like he was on his way to become before the Children helped him.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I wouldn't have liked that too much and it doesn't fit with how they are replenishing their kind. If he didn't die he'd just have become another wight, just like he was on his way to become before the Children helped him.

Well I'm not happy with how little content and storytelling there was in Benjen's arc. He's basically a background character but has shown up in crucial moments, then's suddenly forgotten about

 

[Mjölnir]

Well I'm not happy with how little content and storytelling there was in Benjen's arc. He's basically a background character but has shown up in crucial moments, then's suddenly forgotten about

Oh I don't disagree with you on that point, he wasn't utilized much at all in the show.

 

[Marvolo]

He hasnt been utilized at all in the books.

 

[Mjölnir]

He hasnt been utilized at all in the books.

That's an odd statement seeing how he's been more active in the books than in the show up until the point where the book story stops. He's by no means a very important character but he's done something.

 

[Marvolo]

That's an odd statement seeing how he's been more active in the books than in the show up until the point where the book story stops. He's by no means a very important character but he's done something.

Benjen hasnt appeared in the books since chapter 19 of book one. Despite what people seem to think, Benjen isnt Coldhands in the book.

There's a copy of the original manuscript for A Dance With Dragons at the Texas A&M Cushing Memorial Library, complete with notes from Martin's editors. In it is a note from George telling his editor that Coldhands isnt Benjen.

Spoiler

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think Benjen's got a role to play in Winds of Winter. He and Coldhands might be seperate characters, but I'm pretty sure Benjen's still out there on the front lines against the Army of the Dead and that he might even be the one to reveal Jon's parentage to him.

 

[Marvolo]

Yeah the stuff in the show, Benjen spying on the dead army and escorting Bran back to the Wall, is probably stuff that the character will do in WOW.

 

[Mjölnir]

Benjen hasnt appeared in the books since chapter 19 of book one. Despite what people seem to think, Benjen isnt Coldhands in the book.

There's a copy of the original manuscript for A Dance With Dragons at the Texas A&M Cushing Memorial Library, complete with notes from Martin's editors. In it is a note from George telling his editor that Coldhands isnt Benjen.

Spoiler

I know that, but while I won't delve into speculation (which it still is) the relevant comparison to the show is always Coldhands since that's who Benjen was in the show so the matter of how the character in question was used of course lies there. The essence isn't Benjen, as that didn't play any role, it's just the half undead character beyond the wall that has saved people and even as that he wasn't used much in the show.

When the books catch up and possibly give Benjen a role of importance then the comparison will be different. I do of course realize that I could have been clearer with the wording as I just assumed understanding.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

He's been mentioned by Melisandre in the show so he's there. How much they'll play it up is a different matter but it will still be there to explain the Night King if they don't give him more motivation in the final season.

Well the origin of the NK kind of removes the necessity of "the Great Other". Also the WW on the show aren't referred to as "Others". The writers thought it would confuse the audience.

 

[_Superman_]

What I would like to know is how the books (whenever they're on second thought if they ever are finished) how they will match up to the show. Mainly because in the books Rob's mother and wife are still alive and so is Stannis.

 

[HKpowerup]

There are a lot of theories floating around about Tyrion being a Targaryen, god I hope they do not go down this route of everyone’s lineage secretly being that of Targaryen blood. It just completely ruins everything and it would also not make any sense at all.

 

[Drizzle]

There are a lot of theories floating around about Tyrion being a Targaryen, god I hope they do not go down this route of everyone’s lineage secretly being that of Targaryen blood. It just completely ruins everything and it would also not make any sense at all.

For some reason, that's something I could see happening in the books but not in the show.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Everyone's a secret Targaryens in book theories

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I think the "specialness" of the Targaryens has been exaggerated by fans a tiny bit.

 

[Guts]

That will be the surprise ending of both the show and the books. Everyone is a Targaryen and everyone is banging their aunt/nephew.

 

[TheFuture]

I think the "specialness" of the Targaryens has been exaggerated by fans a tiny bit.

It's hard to deny though when people can survive being burnt alive. I know the books or readers at least attribute that to blood magic more so than anything else, but the show certainly pushes the idea of the Targaryens being unique.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think that's less Targaryens as a whole and plays more into D&D's Dany worship.

 

[TheFuture]

Probably, but Jon has also been depicted as Christ like.

I always got the impression that the Targaryens used to be genuinely special but that died with the Dragons...and that with Dany, it came to be again.

 

[Iceman]

Viserys was special.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Probably, but Jon has also been depicted as Christ like.

I always got the impression that the Targaryens used to be genuinely special but that died with the Dragons...and that with Dany, it came to be again.

Jon's also got the trappings of the Starks and the general First Men aesthetic, which is itself also been shown as something unique and powerful.

The Valyrians have a lot of parallels with Elves, and there's clearly something at play with the magic connected to that, but at least within the books and related material GRRM has been shedding the Targaryen dynasty of their legend. For every Targ that's special there's two or three that are mundane screw ups.