The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[Crook]

Where in the world do you get the idea he's a street fighter? Do we have the same definition of that term?

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

The Joker isn't a weak fighter, he's a street fighter and just not as adept a fighter as Batman. I find it believable that he wouldn't be able to physically take on Batman who is someone who has had years of martial arts training. The Joker will always manage to get some sort of hits in if he's weaponless, but will ultimately be beaten.

Ok so your telling if Joker had no weapon he could get a hit on Batman? No way he'd try to but he would own him like he did in the interrogation scene

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

He IMO is a very routy fighter. Like when i saw him fight in TDK he's more of a "Ima throw as many random punches as I possible can and hopefully do something to Batman"

Like when he goes in to fight Batman he gets him when he has and advantage

 

[Commodore Schmidlapp]

I'm not saying a direct hit or anything to stun Batman. My point is that he's not a true weakling as you all present him to be.

I don't remember any story where he posed a physical threat to Batman, as far as fighting goes. If you know of one, please enlighten me.

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

Eh, in the 1940 comics, he regularly beat the crap out of Batman, but my point is that he's a fighter, just not anywhere on Batman's level.

Must we forget the magic trick and the 20 year man?

Pencil with no eraser = weapon

20 year man having a sharp piece of knife pressed against your throat = weapon

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

How do you think he was able to get the knife to the officer's neck? Magic?

I have no idea do you? I dont think there was a scene that implied how he did. If there is one I wana see how he did?

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

You just assume that when the officer went to grab him he went WALAA did a Joker thing and had the knife against his neck. He's Joker you just go along with it, because you are used to him always getting out of rough spots. If you guys have a demonoid account I suggest getting The Detective and Batman series. Sure its Digital form but you're never going to have the originals and read them. Unless you are really rich and don't mind watching your money crumble as you flip through the pages.

 

[agentzelda]

It's not a knife (the only way he'd have a knife in the interrogation room would be magic, as all his knives were confiscated). It's a piece of glass from the window that smashed when Batman slammed him against it. Now, why he's not just locked in the room and left there is perhaps just a plot issue, but he realizes there's this glass on the floor, and that if he pesters Stephens enough, the cop will go to beat him up, and he can attack then. So the best we might say is that he's a pretty good strategist.

The pencil trick would require some physical strength.

 

[p4poetic]

Good point. Although Ledger/Joker was quite slender, he had well toned/muscular arms. Look at the scene where he's sticking his head out the window in the car, the way he grips the (whateveryoucallit) he has nice strong arms.

Jack's Joker might be physically closer to the Joker of the comics, but I think Ledger's Joker is closer character-wise. Which, in my opinion, is more important.

The Joker was never tubby...

 

[agentzelda]

Again, strategy: first, he doesn't particularly care what Harvey does so long as he abandons his ideals in doing so. Second, Harvey is restrained (whether to keep him from escaping, or to keep him from harming himself is an open question): after the first couple of grabs, the Joker unfastens the restraints. By this point Harvey is listening to him anyway, and is still listening even when the Joker puts the gun in his hand.

Ledger's Joker is lean but not scrawny: he's more wiry. And he has really great arms. Let's face it as far as the legs go: that nurse outfit wouldn't flatter any guy's physique.

 

[agentzelda]

Eckhart looked pretty damn good on the cover of Men's Health magazine in a t-shirt this past summer.

Remember that Harvey's suffered immense physical trauma. Otherwise, well, we already know he has a good punch, as Rossi could attest.

That's exactly the point: it is luck, or chance, and the Joker wants Harvey to reach the point where he will leave the decision to chance, and not make it ethically. Whatever the nature of his insanity, the Joker seems to have a pretty good survival instinct, but h e does want someone like Harvey or Batman to kill him, if he's going to be killed by someone, and if they can compromise their morals in doing so, because then he will have proven that their rules are worthless. This is why he practically begs Batman to run him over, why he is so calm when Harvey's holding the gun to his head, and why he laughs when Batman knocks him off the ledge while getting the detonator away from him.

 

[excreations]

joker a street fighter...... you got me lost.

 

[agentzelda]

I'm actually pretty amazed at how quickly Harvey is conscious and able to make decisions about his treatment, since we learn in his conversation with Gordon that he has refused pain medication or skin grafts. Given the extent of his injuries he would be in excruciating pain in real life. I think this is a situation where we have to make a bit of a leap of faith in order to see him as Two-Face.

I get the impression that on the whole this Joker finds getting into physical fights beneath him, though he could probably hold his own in one.

Did anyone else notice that the one and only time the Joker actually seems startled, and then only for a split second, occurs when the lights come on in the interrogation room? When Batman rounds the table, after he's slammed his head but before he slams his hand, the Joker's eyes open very wide. It might be the split second of realization that this isn't just the expected "bad cop" but it's the one and only time in the movie when he does react like this.

 

[agentzelda]

I just think he genuinely expected to see a cop (he's already reacted to the light when his eyes open up; he blinks, then Batman slams him, then Batman rounds the table and he gets this wideeyed stare).

That wily Gordon set it up perfectly. Too bad ultimately it just didn't work.

 

[agentzelda]

I think eventually they do figure they're dealing with a force beyond their comprehension and that staying ahead of him is going to be very, very difficult. Of course, there's a lot of calculated risk on the Joker's part: the cops might very well have decided since he posed a lethal threat to Stephens that they were justified in shooting him, and he'd have never got to make his phone call.

 

[agentzelda]

True: and many of these cops are in Maroni's back pocket, it's not just Weurtz and Ramirez. They know this guy is in league with Maroni.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Mad Love

 

[Ace of Knaves]

haha yea i watched that episode yesterday on youtube, when batman starts laughing hysterically its actually pretty creepy! the twist at the end is brilliant aswell, shows jokers supernatural side. my favourite episode by far.

 

[p4poetic]

Again, strategy: first, he doesn't particularly care what Harvey does so long as he abandons his ideals in doing so. Second, Harvey is restrained (whether to keep him from escaping, or to keep him from harming himself is an open question): after the first couple of grabs, the Joker unfastens the restraints. By this point Harvey is listening to him anyway, and is still listening even when the Joker puts the gun in his hand.

Ledger's Joker is lean but not scrawny: he's more wiry. And he has really great arms. Let's face it as far as the legs go: that nurse outfit wouldn't flatter any guy's physique.

Yes.

More or less the pic I was looking for

Did anyone else notice that the one and only time the Joker actually seems startled, and then only for a split second, occurs when the lights come on in the interrogation room? When Batman rounds the table, after he's slammed his head but before he slams his hand, the Joker's eyes open very wide. It might be the split second of realization that this isn't just the expected "bad cop" but it's the one and only time in the movie when he does react like this.

No, I don't think if he was thinking anything in particular actually. When you're in a room where the lights are off for a decent amount of time, when the lights turn on (and its very bright) in the room, it takes awhile for your eyes to adjust. His eyes didn't look wide to me, his facial expression just looked more confused than anything.

 

[ronny]

Do you think that if Two-Face turned out to be alive, he'd work with the Joker.

Since this Two-Face is essentially the same one we saw in The Long Halloween and Dark Victory I'd have to say that he would only ever allign with The Joker if it served his own plans.
He still wants to go after the mob and the freaks but is now not constrained by any rules.

How much longer did you think I would let the Falcone family tear Gotham in half? Splitting this city between good and evil. My city.

That's pretty much how he sees things. He still wants to play the hero and yet his idealism has completely died. So whilst Harvey Dent would never ascociate himself with The Joker I reckon that Two-Face would.
Although it would be difficult to predict who would be the first to stab the other in the back.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea maybe two-face would work with the joker, but only if he felt he HAD to. but i think joker would end up stitching him up in the end

 

[supermanx1313]

i kinda like the idea of the joker telling his own origin, like in TDK, with his scars, such a story would make for great entertainment, the problem being we will never get an actor that could pull off this new kind of joker, like we had with the late Heath Ledger.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

if Heath was still alive that could of happened, but IMO the Joker is better to remain mysterious. Not fully knowing his origin is part of his character.

 

[ronny]

i kinda like the idea of the joker telling his own origin, like in TDK, with his scars, such a story would make for great entertainment, the problem being we will never get an actor that could pull off this new kind of joker, like we had with the late Heath Ledger.

Not true. There are so many talented actors that a recast could yield very satisfactory results. Perhaps we would see a different stye of Joker but that's not to say that it would not be just as interesting.

 

[agentzelda]

My instincts tell me the Joker won't be in a Nolan-directed B3, that we may not see him again till someone else picks up the franchise and reboots the character or at least feels the distance of several years would permit acceptance of a different style.

The recent precedent for recasting a character within a series has to be with Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies, since Richard Harris died with two of the seven books filmed. Interestingly (and to a variety of responses), a quite different actor was chosen in Michael Gambon, and no attempt was made to make him look or sound like Harris; the continuity was in the proximity of both to the character as written.

The problem with doing such a thing with a character like the Joker is that there really are so many different takes on the character in the comics, other movies, animated series, etc. that there isn't this sort of canonical core subject matter that can be followed.