Iron Man 2 - Rhodes (to Tony): It's me. I'm here. Deal with it. Let's move on.
Iron Man 3 - The Mandarin (to Tony): No more false faces...You wanted the Mandarin! You got him! I'm the Mandarin!
I'd said the folks behind the Iron Man films understand the fourth wall pretty well.
Dude. You still aren't getting it. Google fourth wall if you have to. I'm sure the filmmakers understand the fourth wall just fine. As the closest they've come to breaking it is Tony narrating IM3. Which (after the credits) we find out isn't the case, because he isn't talking to us, he's talking to Bruce Banner.
Neither of those examples have anything to do with the fourth wall because (as you said) they are both talking "to Tony." As opposed to addressing the audience.
So, Rhodey's remarks could not in anyway be taken as an acknowledgement to the audience of the change in actors? Was there any other contextual need for the line?
Same goes for Mandarin. Was there a contextual reason given his dialogue with Tony for him to suddenly announce himself as the Mandarin? That couldn't be interpreted as an acknowledgement to those in the audience still in disbelief about his identity? Or to comic fans who would undoubtedly be upset that the character they've been waiting for was not quite what they expected?
Any Dark Tower fans in the house? What did you think of the Mandarin reveal?
So its ok for a hero to announce their identity but not for a villain?
Iron Man 2 - Rhodes (to Tony): It's me. I'm here. Deal with it. Let's move on.
Iron Man 3 - The Mandarin (to Tony): No more false faces...You wanted the Mandarin! You got him! I'm the Mandarin!
I'd say the folks behind the Iron Man films understand the fourth wall pretty well.
So, Rhodey's remarks could not in anyway be taken as an acknowledgement to the audience of the change in actors? Was there any other contextual need for the line?
Same goes for Mandarin. Was there a contextual reason given his dialogue with Tony for him to suddenly announce himself as the Mandarin? That couldn't be interpreted as an acknowledgement to those in the audience still in disbelief about his identity? Or to comic fans who would undoubtedly be upset that the character they've been waiting for was not quite what they expected?
IM3 - 'I am Mandarin'
A statement to fill in gaps the visuals and script fails to.
Very clunky indeed rather than the other examples.
You are exactly right. In fact Favreau acknowledged Rhody's line was a reference to the fan outrage at Terrance Howard being replaced.
Right. And Tony calling Trevor "Ringo" is an assumption that the audience knows he is referring to the famous Beatle. But the fourth wall is left intact because, while the filmmakers and writers might be addressing us through context, the character himself (Rhodes, Tony, Killian) is still not aware of our existence.
Breaking the fourth wall, so to speak, is a method for audience realization that the characters in the movie belong or (to go a step further) actually exist in our world. Look at The Office. Mockumentary film style is used to make us believe that somewhere in the world the events on screen could actually be happening. The MCU would never go about doing this because then the suspension of disbelief is lost. If we see the MCU as an extension of our universe we cease to believe in the fantastical things that happen there.
I love The Dark Tower series. Still hated The Mandarin twist. To me its a more than just being misled. I wanted a badass Kingsley... thats pretty much it.
What you are talking about is not breaking the fourth wall. It is a subliminal message. Breaking the fourth wall would've only been the case if Rhodey knows he is a fictional character in a movie, which he doesn't.
Rhodey's statement is far too direct to be a subliminal message.
It's still not "breaking the fourth wall"; it's a wink and a nod, but Rhodey would've had to have been directly addressing the audience - rather than Tony - for it to qualify, as others have already pointed out.
Liked the twist. Wouldve been disappointed if all we got was a Bin Laden clone. (A really cool Bin Laden clone to be fair) I had my vague suspicions from the beginning, and I felt rewarded when Trevor emerged from the bathroom. Kingsley nailed both aspects of the character imo, and I laughed my ash off more than once at his true persona.
The Mandarin in the comics has been changed drastically so many times, and Marvel has already gone above and beyond in the whole "staying true to the character" department, that I really have no problem whatsoever in them re-imagining a particular villain.
In my mind, these films are in their own universe, and by and large are more faithful to the characters and the stories than even the Ultimate Universe, despite being in a totally different medium. Marvel has earned the right to some artistic license going forward. At least with me.
Im a lifelong Marvel fan and I personally hope they depart even FURTHER from the details of the comics, especially when it comes to storylines and villains. I want surprises, not rehashed stories ive read a dozen times or more.
A wink at the audience is not breaking the fourth wall. Unless a character physically turns to the camera and winks at the audience.
I'd say it's indirectly addressing the upset fans and confused viewers of the change in actors. Tony's at a Senate hearing about whether or not the Iron Man suit is a weapon and should be handed over to the government. Of course Rhodey, who served as a sort of liaison between the military and Stark would be there. There is no reason Tony should be surprised he makes an appearance, and given that, no reason that Rhodey should have to tell him "It's me, deal with it". However, the audience has every reason to be surprised and/or upset, and that is who the line is for.
That being said, this is far too much energy expended over what was initially a joke about the Mandarin's rank among comic book villains on film, due to his ability to leave people on screen and off in disbelief over his identity.