Iron Man 3 The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

[Kahran Ramsus]

Just because a film has a surprise doesn't mean it's a good one.

True. Fortunately, this was a good one.

 

[roach]

My issue with the twist is that it really shouldn't have fooled anyone paying attention to the film. The way Killian was treated in the opening should have been obvious he was the bad guy.
IMO this movie felt like a Fox movie than a Marvel movie....like if Fox had the rights to IM and couldnt use anyone else.
Last time we saw Tony he was very chummy chummy with Shield...they couldn't spare an agent or two to look after him??? Iron Man is believed dead and the Avengers don't spring into action??? Are there no armor/armors at the tower in NY???

 

[jmc]

True. Fortunately, this was a good one.

Depends how you look at it.

 

[ElMariachi]

That's an unintentional outcome, not a creation.

Well yeah but it's a recurring trend. Our governments have no problem arming and funding questionable people for short sighted goals. That's the Cold War in a nutshell. We are doing the same thing now. Throwing millions of dollars to questionable people in Libya and handing Mexican cartels weapons.

 

[BillPardy]

Governments almost always create villains though. We played a big role in the creation of Osama bin Laden & modern terrorism by supporting the mujahideen against the Soviets in Afghanistan. We have supported and propped up various dictators and bad guys around the globe. So has every other major power---Russia, China, UK, France, etc.

Canada still produces asbestos and sells it to impoverished countries


On the subject of the movie, I loved it. I've always found Iron Man dull in the comics, but have loved all the films. It would have been great to see the Mandarin with his ten rings, but I enjoyed the comedy of the twist to much to care.

I'm actually surprised no one is really complaining about the treatment of AIM.

 

[jmc]

My issue with the twist is that it really shouldn't have fooled anyone paying attention to the film. The way Killian was treated in the opening should have been obvious he was the bad guy.
IMO this movie felt like a Fox movie than a Marvel movie....like if Fox had the rights to IM and couldnt use anyone else.
Last time we saw Tony he was very chummy chummy with Shield...they couldn't spare an agent or two to look after him??? Iron Man is believed dead and the Avengers don't spring into action??? Are there no armor/armors at the tower in NY???

It was obvious, that's why the air is sucked out of the reveal.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

roach is right. How could you not see it coming from miles away?

 

[jmc]

Well yeah but it's a recurring trend. Our governments have no problem arming and funding questionable people for short sighted goals. That's the Cold War in a nutshell. We are doing the same thing now. Throwing millions of dollars to questionable people in Libya and handing Mexican cartels weapons.

Lets no confused governments doing what's in their interest for 'creating villains'. Real life has no 'villains', usually people are their own worst enemies.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

I wish we had seen this actual villain.

[YT]_XsifkexrbE[/YT]

Seemed so interesting and promising. Unfortunately this video is nothing more than misleading in hindsight.

THANK YOU!

This video has been my biggest issue since I left the theater. THAT Mandarin would have been BEYOND amazing. That video wasn't misleading... it was a straight up lie as far as I'm concerned. That is was I was hoping for and expecting with Iron Man 3, which is why I'm so disappointed. That Mandarin would have been deeper and more intricate as a villain for Tony to deal with.

 

[ElMariachi]

Just because a film has a surprise doesn't mean it's a good one.

The movie is good, regardless of how you feel about the villain. It's one aspect of the film. Everything else about the movie was hilarious, thrilling, clever, and amusing.

 

[ElMariachi]

Canada still produces asbestos and sells it to impoverished countries


On the subject of the movie, I loved it. I've always found Iron Man dull in the comics, but have loved all the films. It would have been great to see the Mandarin with his ten rings, but I enjoyed the comedy of the twist to much to care.

I'm actually surprised no one is really complaining about the treatment of AIM.

And you club baby seals.

 

[signifyingmnky]

That's an unintentional outcome, not a creation.

Which villian did the government create here? Iron Patriot was only rebranded, and wasn't a villain. The Mandarin wasn't a creation of government either.

That being said, the threat of technology used in the wrong hands is the central theme of the Iron Man mythos. Governments are major buyers, especially the defense industry which is why Tony frequently encounters enemies from that world. There's nothing overtly political in that. It speaks more to a philosophy that brilliant minds have a responsibility for their creations. Betraying that responsibility can make one a villain to those affected.

 

[ElMariachi]

Lets no confused governments doing what's in their interest for 'creating villains'. Real life has no 'villains', usually people are their own worst enemies.

Not sure I agree with. Real life has plenty of villains. Islamic terrorism is a threat to a good chunk of the globe. North Korea is a threat to peace in Asia. Drug lords and criminals are a threat to everyday life. We got to keep an eye out for all these things.

 

[roach]

It was obvious, that's why the air is sucked out of the reveal.

i hate to bring BB into this but what made that reveal work so much is they didn't tip their hand at the beginning of the movie and it made sense based on Ra's power set....a guy who dies and resurrects himself...would make more sense if Ra's was an image that could be killed and another actor takes his place...while Ducard was the true power.

 

[jmc]

Not sure I agree with. Real life has plenty of villains. Islamic terrorism is a threat to a good chunk of the globe. North Korea is a threat to peace in Asia. Drug lords and criminals are a threat to everyday life. We got to keep an eye out for all these things.

Real life has threats, it doesn't have villains, let not mix up fantasy with reality.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

The funny thing about this 'Mandarin outrage' is that we never were going to get the Mandarin anyways. When was the Mandarin a sunglass wearing Osama bin Laden? He obviously was never going to have the Makulan Rings. He obviously was never going to be a physical threat to Iron Man given that they cast a 70 year old.

I'm going to just stop here and make these comments:

1. His physical look was as a Middle Eastern terrorist and anarchist. Wearing random clothing and accessories from all around the globe made the character work. It gave him a mysterious background.

2. He wore the rings and they were shown prominently multiple times in trailers and online featurettes. Not to mention Marvel opened the can of worms that is alien involvement in the Avengers. So what would keep him from having alien rings?

3. Ian McKellan as Magneto. He was in his late 60s for X-Men The Last Stand, and will be in Days of Future Past at the age of 74 (he turns 74 this month).


And for the record, I'm not saying to "stuff" the alien stuff in the movie. I'm just saying that because of Thanos, The Other and the Chutari, it would be PLAUSIBLE for Mandarin to have the rings. That was said to be the primary issue with using Mandarin in the first movies.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The movie is good, regardless of how you feel about the villain. It's one aspect of the film. Everything else about the movie was hilarious, thrilling, clever, and amusing.

The movie had its problems, but it was definitely good overall.

 

[jmc]

i hate to bring BB into this but what made that reveal work so much is they didn't tip their hand at the beginning of the movie and it made sense based on Ra's power set....a guy who dies and resurrects himself...would make more sense if Ra's was an image that could be killed and another actor takes his place...while Ducard was the true power.

The reveal also worked because there was an emotional investment in Ra's via Bruce, the two of them spend a good half an hour bonding in the movie in a classic mentor/student way. When the reveal happens Bruce isn't just taking on the real villain, he's taking on the very man who trained him and who helped shaped his future.

 

[ElMariachi]

Real life has threats, it doesn't have villains, let not mix up fantasy with reality.

al-Qaeda are villains though. As are most terrorists and criminals. The evil in some of the hearts of these people is straight out of a comic book.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Not sure I agree with. Real life has plenty of villains. Islamic terrorism is a threat to a good chunk of the globe. North Korea is a threat to peace in Asia. Drug lords and criminals are a threat to everyday life. We got to keep an eye out for all these things.

Real life has plenty of bullies and terrorists. I like to think he was referring more to a "super villain" personification. We don't have those in the real world. We have rivals governments and philosophies that lead to war. Do you really want a super powered hero fighting North Korea, drug lords and bank robbers? We're talking about action, sci-fi comic book movies here. Iron Man vs Kim Jong Un would be a very short and anti-climactic movie.

 

[roach]

The reveal also worked because there was an emotional investment in Ra's via Bruce, the two of them spend a good half an hour bonding in the movie in a classic mentor/student way. When the reveal happens Bruce isn't just taking on the real villain, he's taking on the very man who trained him and who helped shaped his future.

which to me was another sign that something was up...Mandarin only appeared in little more than a handful of scenes before the reveal.

 

[jmc]

al-Qaeda are villains though. As are most terrorists and criminals. The evil in some of the hearts of these people is straight out of a comic book.

Come back to reality Dom.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

al-Qaeda are villains though. As are most terrorists and criminals. The evil in some of the hearts of these people is straight out of a comic book.

It's more like comic book villains are straight out of their evil. However, I wouldn't call them villains. They are villains to us, but we are villains to them. The term "villain" requires a "hero" character to be established. In comic books, that "hero" is established for us. Real life is too complex and littered with philosophies and grey areas. Everyone is a hero to someone and a villain to someone else. Suicide bombers in the Middle East are Islamic heroes, said to be praised and honored in the afterlife. But to us, they're just kamikaze ****heads trying to kill innocent people. Just like the old saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure."

 

[Colossal Spoons]

roach is right. How could you not see it coming from miles away?

You may have seen that Killian was the main bad guy; but you knew that Kingsley was going to be a buffoon of an actor? I think that's what irked me more than the switch. It was the cheap laughs they tried to milk out of that scene. Make him a henchman like Bane to Talia.

 

[ElMariachi]

I'm going to just stop here and make these comments:

1. His physical look was as a Middle Eastern terrorist and anarchist. Wearing random clothing and accessories from all around the globe made the character work. It gave him a mysterious background.

2. He wore the rings and they were shown prominently multiple times in trailers and online featurettes. Not to mention Marvel opened the can of worms that is alien involvement in the Avengers. So what would keep him from having alien rings?

3. Ian McKellan as Magneto. He was in his late 60s for X-Men The Last Stand, and will be in Days of Future Past at the age of 74 (he turns 74 this month).


And for the record, I'm not saying to "stuff" the alien stuff in the movie. I'm just saying that because of Thanos, The Other and the Chutari, it would be PLAUSIBLE for Mandarin to have the rings. That was said to be the primary issue with using Mandarin in the first movies.

1)But the Mandarin isn't a bearded old Middle Eastern al-Qaeda terrorist. That's what you guys aren't getting about it. He was arguably less of the Mandarin than Killian was.

2)Those rings were clearly never going to be anything more than decoration. They looked like ornamental jewelry, nothing more. Knowing how excessive Marvel's advertisng is, you think we would have seen something.

They did open the can of worms with Avengers. But do you really want to see alien crap in EVERY movie from now on? It gets boring. We have an upcoming alien using pretty much the same powers in an Avenger sequel. That's my point.

3)Ian McKellan and Magneto was never a physical threat though. Mandarin is. He is an expert martial artist at his physical peak. Old people fighting CGI robots looks stupid. I don't think I am going against the grain on this.

Had Ben Kingsley been the true Mandarin the entire film, he would another speech giving puppetmaster. Iron Man fans wanted a physical threat and they got it.