The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Discussion in 'Iron Man 3' started by Thread Manager, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Thread Manager

    Thread Manager Moderator

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    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]457391[/split]
     
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  2. Thread Manager

    Thread Manager Moderator

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    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]457063[/split]
     
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  3. Cosmic

    Cosmic Mystic

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    What an arrogant bastard. As expected, just another Hollywood hotshot who thinks he's so much better than those "unrealistic" comics that are providing him the opportunity to make a fortune.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  4. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    On one hand, I love that he doesn't cater to fans wants and needs, OTOH...that was a little too blunt, the sex tape thing would have been terrible.
     
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  5. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    Yeah to the sex tape idea. I like that about Black, too. As I've reiterated on here many times, I don't mind the twist Black added at all. I just felt like Killian was a badly written character.
     
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  6. Chris B

    Chris B Well-Known Member

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    I do have to agree with Black that retconning Trevor into being the real Mandarin isn't a good idea. Killian as the MCU Mandarin can easily work with some development.
     
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  7. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    I don't mind how Killian was written, but I agree on the twist.

    Theoretically speaking, with TA, and also GoTG, anything is fair game. LMD, characters that are "dead" seemingly coming back, anything.
     
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  8. Nathan

    Nathan ...

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    I just want to forget about the Mandarin business. Trevor is in jail, Killian hopefully dead forever. Let's bring in a new nemesis and sweep everything that happened in IM3 under a rug.
     
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  9. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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  10. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    Didn't Tony blow up & destroy Killian / Mandarin in one of his suits, so not sure how he is going to work with some development, except to say they did bring back Coulson so I suppose they could do it with Killian too. However, I would still prefer if they could come up with a logical way for Kingsley to return as the real Mandarin. He was way more menacing as a villain then Killian, and he is the only one I would want to see return as the Mandarin.

    Surfer
     
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  11. Doc Ock

    Doc Ock The Spider-Totem Awakens

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    I liked Iron Man 3, and make myself feel better believing that the Mandadrin twist is a double twist...this "Trevor" was actually the Mandarin all the long. Successfully still in hiding...and fooled everyone. But that's me....
     
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  12. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    But he isn't, and that's not going to change. Like, seriously. Even if they did want that to be a theory, you literally hear Killian pronounce "I am the Mandarin". Seriously getting tired of this argument.
     
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  13. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    I've been tired of that argument for months. Its desperate flailing out of the worst fan fiction. "Killian eventually puts his body back together" is *vastly* more likely than any variation of "Trevor was actually the real Mandarin from the start."
     
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  14. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    Basically. It doesn't matter regardless, Stark won't have any solo movies until much much later anyways.
     
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  15. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    Hence, why I said it could be explained in a call where Trevor tells Killian the trap is set, and for Killian to assume the roll of Mandarin (in case he is not successful in defeating Iron Man). This could be further explained by showing Trevor seeing Tony arrive at his lair on a monitor before making the call, and then after words by acting like he is an actor to mislead and misdirect Tony into the trap (just like we seen in the movie already). I mean with Tony thinking the Mandarin is dead, he basically walks away from everything done so far more or less unscathed. At worst Trevor is probably put into prison, where the film maker could totally make it seem like him getting in there was his intent all along and that his arrival in prison begins the next phase of his plan. I mean it could be that he is being held in a SHIELD prison with other Super Villains, and they have heavy security on people like the Abomination, and perhaps other Super Villains that we haven't been introduced to yet, and Trevor has little security on him as he doesn't appear to be much of a threat, but that is where they are wrong and it is his plan with getting in there to free all of them. I mean they did something similar with the Joker where they threw him in a jail cell thinking they had him right where they wanted him, when all along it was the other way around. Also, keep in mind, Trevor as Mandarin didn't have any power rings they were just symbols of the 10 rings, so taking Tony on in a head to head battle in his lair wouldn't make any sense as he would have gotten his butt handed to him. However, through the use of elaborate planning he could definitely be responsible for all kinds of mayhem against him and the government. I know some people might be against it, and I apologize because I really don't want to upset other comic book fans, but to me I can't help feeling that this would be a hell of a lot better then what we got, and it could allow for what I feel is a much better version of the Mandarin to return in a later film or for maybe him to join in an MCU version of the Masters of Evil.

    Surfer
     
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  16. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    Why is it *vastly* more likely that Killian is able to put his body back together after it has been blown to bits? I mean sure they are bringing Coulson back after what appeared to be a terminal wound, but I don't think Marvel should bring back every character that dies especially one that would have been destroyed so completely. I mean you seen how Jack Taggert exploded, there was nothing left. As for Trevor being the real Mandarin from the start, I agree with you in that it was definitely not Shane Blacks intent to make Trevor the Mandarin at any stage of the game, but that doesn't mean that Marvel couldn't flip it back again using one shots or after credit sequences to further explain what happened and return Trevor to the roll of the Mandarin. I really don't think it would be that difficult or even seem that awkward if done correctly, but obviously whether they do it or not is a different thing entirely.

    Surfer
     
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  17. Chris B

    Chris B Well-Known Member

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    I think they left it ambigous enough where they could easily bring him back if the wanted to.

    I was under the impression that Taggert's body wasn't really accepting Extremis, hence why there was nothing left of him. Conversely, Killian was able to survive Mark 42 exploding while encased in it. IMO, its not a stretch that he could've survived the missle detonation.
     
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  18. TheHeatKitchen

    TheHeatKitchen Well-Known Member

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    That was my thought. He survived that crazy exploding suit, but was killed by that missle exploding in front of him? Seems plausible that he could have survived that too.
     
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  19. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Its plausible, IMO. Not *certain*, but plausible. What it definitely did do, though, was mess him up badly enough for him to be completely incapacitated. This means that, dramatically speaking, it'd be best if his revival be accompanied by various obstacles, like only being able to keep his body together with a grueling effort, forcing him to rely on minions to do Stuff in order to restore him fully.
     
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  20. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    I guess my recollection of the events that went down in the final battle are a little sketchy as (due to my disappointment with the treatment to the Mandarin) I only viewed the movie one time. However, now that you mention it I do recall Killian surviving the exploding suit (guess I tried to block it out), so you may also be correct in assuming that he could survive a missle detonation. So, I guess we will see if he returns. If they do, I just hope that they change the way his extremis powers are portrayed to using more blasts from the hands (in place of his rings I suppose), because that whole breathing fire thing really bugged me. Also, I hope they get him away from the whole business man looking thing, and put him into something that makes him look more like a Warlord. They could even indicate that Trevor's version of the Mandarin was the concept of Killian who he himself has a love for the great conqueror's of the past, as he sees himself as one of them. Also, I would think if he returns it would be most likely in a Masters of Evil / Acts of Vengeance type format, and a more comic book type version of the character would seem to be more in place with the other villians (like Loki, Ultron, Abomination, and others) then a business man looking character. Ultimately if Killian survives, I would like to see him collect his rings from Trevor, Shoot blasts from just his hands (perhaps showing that he now has better control of his powers), and to wear a hood with some style of a robe, gown or perhaps even something else that pays homage to ancient warlords & conquerors. Then perhaps I could see Killian as the real Mandarin from the comics.

    Surfer

    PS. I know Mandarin has worn suits at times in the comics, but the whole business man thing is so boring & overdone, and it seems like they do that for almost every villain now a days that it does not do anything to identify him as a character. I mean Loki wore a suit for a while, Dr. Doom wore a suit for a while, the suit doesn't help to give the Mandarin his own look that he is really needing. Anyways that all I have to say for now.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  21. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    After discussing the Mandarin with Teekay in a different thread, and having similar debates with Michael Chen regarding the character amongst others months ago. I guess I ultimately feel this way on the subject. I would have been okay with Killian as the Mandarin, as Killian shares many traits & qualities similar to the Mandarin from the comics. However, while a person or character truly is who they are on the inside (and I really feel they got that part of the character right), with such a visual medium like comics or movies I feel it is equally integral they get the look and powers of the character correct externally (which seemed off the mark). Also, I think that if Killian's powers were not just making him seem like one of the many extremis soldiers, it would have helped to separate him as a different & more menacing villain overall, and while Killian's look as a business man may have made sense for the movie (& even connected him to certain versions of the character from the comics), this look in my opinion did little to identify him as a unique villain & to me seemed very unimaginative for a comic book villain from a design stand point. If Marvel does bring him back, I hope they do more to tie Killian to the rings of power from the comics, even if through him using powers from his hands in the form of the extremis virus versus the actual rings. Also, I hope they do more to give him a more specific and individualized identifying look that resembles one of the other iterations of the Mandarin from the comics. At that point I could definitely see Killian as becoming the Mandarin from the comics, because as it stands now I feel we may have gotten the Mandarin in this movie, but I still feel we only got half the Mandarin from the comics.

    Surfer
     
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  22. Doc Ock

    Doc Ock The Spider-Totem Awakens

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    Killian does literally say "I am the Mandarin" however that doesn't mean anything. I mean it could if you interpret it that way but I interpreted at a form of him gloating to Tony Stark that he fooled him and ultimately everyone. He was being cocky with that statement. At least in my eyes it came off that way.
     
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  23. cloverfan98

    cloverfan98 Well-Known Member

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    My biggest problem was the Extermis tech was very different from the comics and as far as I could tell Stark never gets the tech implemented into his armor which was a big mistake IMO.
     
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  24. Green Goblin

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    In my eyes I thought it was more like "you want the mandarin well I am him"
     
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  25. TheHeatKitchen

    TheHeatKitchen Well-Known Member

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    The Mandarin is like New Coke. You're given ads for something like the original classic people are familiar with, but given a modern twist. But you open the bottle and take a giant swig of Aldrich Killian.

    After my first viewing of Iron Man 3, I HATED this twist with such strong nerd passion. After the second viewing, it grew on me a little more. Tomorrow, when the bluray comes out, I'll watch a make my final judgment. I just still don't know if I'm mad or intrigued by the twist. I'm definitely still mad about the advertising ploy, but the twist itself (advertising aside) I'm still on the fence about.
     
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