The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Discussion in 'Iron Man 3' started by Thread Manager, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    You make a very valid point about audiences expectations. Back when I saw X-men in the theater (in I believe it was 2000), I loved it because I was just so excited that we got the characters that I overlooked many of the changes they made from the comics. However, usher in the Marvel studio's age of movies several years later, where the origins of the characters seemed to be for the most part pretty close to their comic counter parts, at that point everything changed for me and my expectations changed with it. So, unfortunately if I had gotten Killian as the Mandarin (as his current representation as a business man / mad scientist character) back in the early 2000's I would have probably thought it was the best thing ever, but today I just feel with Killian we got only part of the package that should have been the Mandarin and that was not enough for me. Once again though, I am hopeful that moving forward if he is to reappear that they can use him with more of a warlord look to tie his look more to the comics. To me that would go a long way towards appeasing me, even though it might sound silly. I think it would be easy enough to explain that he goes into seclusion in the outskirts of a small town in Asia where he begins to master his extremis powers. There the people believe him a god and make him their ruler, and slowly he starts rebuilding his army.

    Anyways, that is what I would like to see if Killian was to return, but hey I know I am just one person and they are going to do whatever they think the general public wants to see, so really I am just venting. :yay:

    Surfer
     
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  2. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Actually, I agree with this, though I don't think he "escaped" so much as "eventually, he managed to regrow his body." If they wanted him to return, they totally could have him return.

    Doesn't change my main point, though, about the strain of reaction.
     
    #227
  3. The_Manhunter

    The_Manhunter DCEU & MCU Fan

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    This is my dream storyline for IM4. It really doesn't crap on IM3, Killain can still be "Mandarin." But there is also "The Mandarin," a Batman-like legend.
     
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  4. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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  5. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    You know what? I like the Mandarin now. I think people are getting hung up on the twist and missing the brilliance of having Tony alone and isolated at a time of the year that's associated with friendly and familial gatherings. I haven't seen anyone mentioning the fact that it's a normal guy from Tony's pre-Avengers past that caused him the most grief rather than some intergalactic beasties. Well played on Black's part.
     
    #230
  6. Lord

    Lord All Mighty

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    Incompetence? Killian almost killed Tony, almost killed and replaced the president and caused multiple acts of terrorism and bombings
     
    #231
  7. TheHeatKitchen

    TheHeatKitchen Well-Known Member

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    Ok... But what does that have to do with the Mandarin? You changed the subject. They could have still done ALL of that as well as they did if the Mandarin was portrayed as we were led to believe in the trailers. Or if he had alien rings. Or if he was the owner of a car dealership. The fact that Tony was alone at Christmas had nothing to do with the character of the Mandarin.
     
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  8. Lord

    Lord All Mighty

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    A guy named Mandarin isn't racista at all.
     
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  9. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    So a Mandarin with alien rings would still create a situation where the threat to Tony didn't come from an unearthly source?
     
    #234
  10. TheHeatKitchen

    TheHeatKitchen Well-Known Member

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    Fine, lose the alien rings. But the point is the the dynamic of his lonely struggles has nothing to do with Mandarin's character. The twist and Tony's Christmas time problems aren't related.
     
    #235
  11. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    After having both built himself a superhuman army, and remade himself into a rather monstrously powerful supervillain.
     
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  12. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    I see where you guys are going with the whole incompetence thing, by showing what Killian achieved you hope to show that he was competent, but to a true Villain looking on he would way Killian's competence only with the successful destruction of his enemy, and since he failed to do this he is therefore incompetent. :yay:

    Surfer
     
    #237
  13. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    I am absolutely serious. I am not saying if there was to be another incarnation of the Mandarin that he would have any better success himself with beating Iron Man, but he would believe himself a superior Villain and looking on at the situation (ego in tact), he would believe Killian's attempts and failure to be incompetence, and that if he himself were to have taken on Iron Man he would not have lost. The truth is irrelevant it is only about his perception, and that is how I think he would perceive it. Although, it is most likely a moot point, since it probably will not happen, but still I keep my hopes up for something moving forward that will enhance the way I see the Mandarin as a character in Iron Man 3.

    Surfer
     
    #239
  15. Lord

    Lord All Mighty

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    In that case every single villain we'll see in these films is painfully incompetent, because no matter how many times they try, the heroes will allways win, even if they can win a battle, they will lose the war.
     
    #240
  16. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    [​IMG]


    Serious question, have you ever seen a superhero movie? The only time that a villain ever won was TDK.
     
    #241
  17. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    So the Mandarin failed to stop a scientific genius with access to extremely futuristic tech...yeah, he's pretty inept.
     
    #242
  18. A Necessary Evil

    A Necessary Evil One. Bad. Day.

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    Don't forget the whole fact that he had everyone in the world duped about his identity, and got away with a hell of alot of stuff for a majority of the movie.
     
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  19. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    True, but it is generally their belief they will be the exception going into the battle, and they think where others have failed they will succeed. I mean competence is having the ablitlity and qualifications to perform the job. What is the job in this case? Kill Iron Man / Destroy Tony Stark right. So, did Killian successfully perform this job? No, he did not therefore he could be easily viewed as incompetent, especially by someone that believes themself superior.



    Yes, I have seen many super hero movies, and your right villains don't generally win. However, this is not about whether I believe Killian to be competent after losing, but instead it is about whether or not another Villian would believe Killian to be competent after losing. I mean I see it all the time in movies and television shows where some thug goes back to report to his boss that he did everything he could do to complete the mission, but the boss doesn't care he just views it as incompetence and puts a bullet in his skull because he was not successful. I mean nothing to me says this is a character you don't mess with more then when a Villian starts killing other villians. I know it worked well for the Joker in the Dark Knight.


    Once again, it doesn't matter what I think, it matters only what a Villain (that believes he is superior) would think, and I feel he would see himself succeeding where others have failed. I mean sure in the end he would also fall to Tony's genius and tech, but up to that point he would view others that have tried and failed as being inept, because he is going to be the one to successfully destroy him (or so he thinks).


    Yes Killian got away with a lot, and was able to achieve many things, but ultimately in the end he was not successful at completing the one job that mattered to him most, of destroying Iron Man / Tony Stark. Therefore again to a new Incarnation of the Mandarin (if there was to be such a thing), he would view it as Killian's Incompetence and or ineptness that lead him to failure and that he will not fall to Iron Man like Killian did because he believes he possesses the qualities and abilities necessary to get the job done of Destroying Iron Man / Tony Stark. So, where Killian failed he will succeed.

    Once again it doesn't matter what the truth is, it is all about what the character percieves to be the truth.

    Surfer
     
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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  20. metaphysician

    metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Surfer, just stop. Your definition of "competence" is absolutely insane and irrelevant to anything actually meaningful to this discussion.
     
    #245
  21. Surfer

    Surfer Sentinel of the Spaceways

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    Sorry, you disagree with my use of the word "competence", as you have made it clear by the "Your definition" that you feel it is my take, version or opinion of the word. So, while some others might agree with you, I still don't appreciate you suggesting my opinion is insane, irrelevant and has no meaning to the discussion, just because you disagree with me. I realize this is a forum and I don't expect people to agree with my thoughts all of the time, but I do expect them to be respectful to me as I try to be with them.

    So, as a token of respect towards you I will now stop, but please be polite to me as I come here to join in on the fun, and sometimes for me that means debating about a character, but at no time do I wish to argue or fight with others.

    So, I wish you well, and appreciate you considering what I am saying.

    Thanks!

    Surfer
     
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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  22. MrMaooz

    MrMaooz Well-Known Member

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    I swear. Once you know the twist, the "serious" scenes with Kingsley are pretty funny!
     
    #247
  23. Steamteck

    Steamteck Well-Known Member

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    Actually he's no more racist than a English character called the Earl or the Viscount or a Scottish character called the Chieftain. ( which as a Scot I'd have no problem with)Its a frickin name of a historical type of Noble. if that sort of thing offends people, They just want to be offended.

    Even if its a now reviled title, he's a villain!!!
     
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  24. XtremelyBaneful

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    wow, i'm surprised at how close the love and the hate are
     
    #249
  25. Dagenspear

    Dagenspear Well-Known Member

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    Eh. More like a little disappointing.
     
    #250

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