Iron Man 3 The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

[jonathancrane]

Unfunny is arbitrary.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Unfunny is arbitrary.

Yes, but sometimes a whole lot of people agree.

 

[jonathancrane]

Sure, a faction of upset fan-boys, but not the general public, whose reception is prioritized. I mean, I would like to think that DC took my feedback regarding the unfunny joke that derailed the ending of MOS, but, in reality they did not: butts filled seats in the theaters and they sold a ton of Superman underwear and action figures, so they don't care.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

But where were hose fanboys when Batman begins changed Ras al Ghul?

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

What's most baffling about this is when Batman Begins turned Ra's Al Ghul into a white guy who had an ethnic body double, used the name of a lesser known and unrelated character, and didn't have the supernatural power source that he had in the comics but otherwise had the same motivation, MO, and backstory, no one cared.

"Ducard" was a much more interesting character than decoy Ra's. Had Killian been a more compelling villain I am sure there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash.

 

[jonathancrane]

No, there are the two factions that either love or despise Nolan's work. You might have encountered them on this forum, once or twice.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

"Ducard" was a much more interesting character than decoy Ra's. Had Killian been a more compelling villain I am sure there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash.

Haven't you heard? That's not important, only if executives care.

That said, I agree.

No, there are the two factions that either love or despise Nolan's work. You might have encountered them on this forum, once or twice.

Same with every director. So, where were Nolan haters back in 2005?

 

[jonathancrane]

I was not a member of this forum in 2005, even though I have been assured it was a more pleasant place.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I was not a member of this forum in 2005, even though I have been assured it was a more pleasant place.

Do you think fanboys were different back then so that's why no one complained about Ras al Ghul? Did you even have internet back in 2005?

Because not even now, after everyone complained about TDKR, current fanboys haven't looked back and complained about Ras. How strange.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Hi El Payaso

 

[jonathancrane]

I had internet back in 2005; however, I did not discover the Hype until much later in life. Besides, there have been posters on this forum who have complained about the third reel switcheroo, so I am kind-of not seeing your argument.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I had internet back in 2005; however, I did not discover the Hype until much later in life. Besides, there have been posters on this forum who have complained about the third reel switcheroo, so I am kind-of not seeing your argument.

A poster was baffled about how differently fans reacted to both twists. I pointed out what for me was the difference. I've never heard people complaining about Ra's the way they have about Mandarin.

 

[jonathancrane]

Again, I've read nothing but posts complaining about how Nolan ruined every aspect of the Bat mythos (R'as included.) Allow me to make a point: while I loved what they did with the Mandarin, I understand how the upset Mandarin fans feel. After watching EMH and reading all of the comics, I was, and still am pissed with what they did to the Crimson Dynamo with a) the casting b) the writing c) Rourke's improvisation d) and combination and ruining of two characters for future appearances. I love IM2, but hate what was done to the Crimson Dynamo. That's why I watch EMH to be presented with a faithful and non-insulting adaptation. Again, while I love how the Mandarn was handled in IM3, I understand perfectly how people feel.

 

[Victarion]

Can you drop me some links to the complaints, Senator? It's been so long that I forgot about them.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Again, I've read nothing but posts complaining about how Nolan ruined every aspect of the Bat mythos (R'as included.) Allow me to make a point: while I loved what they did with the Mandarin, I understand how the upset Mandarin fans feel. After watching EMH and reading all of the comics, I was, and still am pissed with what they did to the Crimson Dynamo with a) the casting b) the writing c) Rourke's improvisation d) and combination and ruining of two characters for future appearances. I love IM2, but hate what was done to the Crimson Dynamo. That's why I watch EMH to be presented with a faithful and non-insulting adaptation. Again, while I love how the Mandarn was handled in IM3, I understand perfectly how people feel.

It's ok. As I told you, it was someone else who said that "no one cared" when it happened to Ra's.

Can you drop me some links to the complaints, Senator? It's been so long that I forgot about them.

About Ra's? How could I if I think there weren't any?

 

[Juicy J]

There's no way they'd affect or retcon the ending of IM3 in a straight to video feature, not to mention if the mandarin twist really was shane black's idea I highly doubt they'd go against his wishes for the character.

The mandarin twist "issue" point blank was only a concern for the hardcore comic fans and most of the general public were totally fine with it so from marvel studio's/disney's point of view there was no backlash really.

There wasn't a backlash in any way shape or form.
A small but vocal amount of fans on this website and elsewhere on the internet had a fussy about it, but there was absolutely nothing like that amongst the general populace about the film. This website is literally the only place I've ever heard that complaint, because no one else but the type of people who come here would ever really care.

 

[The Question]

Because they didn't turn the character into an unfunny joke? Only difference I can spot.

I disagree with that statement on two grounds:

1: Iron Man 3 didn't turn the character into an unfunny joke, it turned the character into a white guy using the name of an unrelated lesser known character from the comics, which again was exact same thing they did with Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins. The joker character was his decoy, the character essentially filling the same role that Ken Watanabe's character filled in Batman Begins.

2: Trevor's scenes were hilarious.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I disagree with that statement on two grounds:

1: Iron Man 3 didn't turn the character into an unfunny joke, it turned the character into a white guy using the name of an unrelated lesser known character from the comics, which again was exact same thing they did with Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins. The joker character was his decoy, the character essentially filling the same role that Ken Watanabe's character filled in Batman Begins.

I completely agree with you. So what could be the reason why they had different reactions? I stand by my original (and probably wrong?) answer.

2: Trevor's scenes were hilarious.

Someone else said "unfunny [therefore funny] is arbitrary." I say, it depends on the context.

 

[The Question]

I completely agree with you. So what could be the reason why they had different reactions? I stand by my original (and probably wrong?) answer.

I think it's that, in the minds of a huge number of fans, The Mandarin is fundamentally defined by his race and how his powers work and Ra's Al Ghul is not.

 

[jonathancrane]

Let us not forget that R'as was performed (or more specifically, voiced by) an English actor in TAS. So, the Euro-washing of the character was not something Nolan created, but, continued.

 

[The Question]

Let us not forget that R'as was performed (or more specifically, voiced by) an English actor in TAS. So, the Euro-washing of the character was not something Nolan created, but, continued.

It's not something Shane Black created either. The Mandarin was a white guy played by a white actor in the Iron Man animated series from the 90s.

 

[jonathancrane]

I was not aware of that, as I had not seen the 90's animated series. Is it any good (aside from the Mandarin plotline)?

 

[The Question]

I was not aware of that, as I had not seen the 90's animated series. Is it any good (aside from the Mandarin plotline)?

The first season is pretty bad, but the second season is pretty good. Season one had a much lower budget and was basically a super episodic He-Man rip off with Iron Man and the West Coast Avengers (called Force Works in the show) standing in for the Masters of the Universe, The Mandarin and Iron Man's rogue's gallery standing in for Skeletor and his minions, and Tony Stark's armory standing in for Castle Greyskull. Season two saw a serious budget increase and focused more on serialized story arcs about Tony's psychological problems and The Mandarin engaging in much more subtle and threatening schemes that had less to do with stealing Tony's armor and more to do with killing people and conquering third world nations.

 

[jonathancrane]

Interesting. I will check it out.

 

[The Question]

I think the change in the opening sequences is a real indicator in the improvement from season one to season two.

Season one intro:

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Season two intro:

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