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Marvel Films The Marvel Studios News and Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by Lily Adler, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. Dr. Evil Registered

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    Also, it seems like every movie studio in Hollywood bends over backwards to work with the Rock. That to me, makes him a movie star.
     
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  3. Bayne Registered

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    Their box office says otherwise. The Rock's only truly successful movies are Moana, the Fast films and the Jumanji films. Ensemble franchise movies. Every time he goes it alone, he flops.

    Diesel has done maybe slightly better solo, but not much, and doesn't even have anything like Moana or Jumanji to help pad out his numbers beyond the Fast franchise.

    And yes, technically everyone who stars in a movie is a movie star. And you can argue being seen or treated as a movie star makes you a movie star. But that's obviously not what Tarantino is talking about when he says the 'movie star' is dead so it really isn't relevant.
     
  4. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    See, he says that like its a *bad* thing. . . *ahem*
     
  5. Batgirl0202 Registered

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    To me a "movie star" is an actor who can anchor a film, big or small, and can help ensure that a studio makes their money back when they finance a movie.

    If general audiences are willing to see a film just because you're in it, that makes you a "movie star" as far as I'm concerned. This is what differentiates "actors" from "stars". I could appear in a Marvel movie that would most likely make hundreds of millions of dollars, but would that make me a "movie star"? Obviously not...

    Of course not every film a "movie star" makes will break box office records, but when you look at their resume you should see far more classics than duds.

    When you apply this criteria, the list of contemporary "movie stars" is quite thin. Tom Cruise is obviously one, and I would add Brad Pitt, Will Smith, and Tom Hanks to the list as well (their films are pretty consistent performers).

    Once upon a time you could have added people like Eddie Murphy, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Mel Gibson, Julia Roberts, Demi Moore, Meg Ryan, Sandra Bullock, and so on to the list, but many of them seem to have been banished to streaming and DTV lately...

    Then you have actors who are kinda movie stars but not really, folks like Aaron Eckhart, Jake Gyllenhaal, and Miles Teller before Maverick. And there's also the likes of Matt Damon, Vin Diesel, and The Rock who are mostly only draws in ensembles and franchise films...

    Ah show biz...
     
    #80 Batgirl0202, Nov 22, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
    MarvelFan, Slick, MadVillainy and 4 others like this.
  6. Originalavenger Registered

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    I hate my auto correct!! Suppose to be buy Columbia studios dam lol
     
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  7. Venom 1988 formerly Ultimate_Venom

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    You could just edit your post.
     
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  8. Originalavenger Registered

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    Ummm good point
     
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    Car limbos studios :funny:
     
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  10. Kane52630 BATMOBILE USER

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  11. Originalavenger Registered

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    Yeah yeah I told you I have the worst auto correct!! SMH lol yes I’m a dork
     
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  12. MadVillainy C'mon Son

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    Ehhhhhh idk. I don't get why he's in his feelings about this. Especially when everyone, including Anthony Mackie, has what Tarantino said about movie stars for years.
    And then pulling out the diversity card is completely different point than what Tarantino said. So I don't get why Liu brought it up.

    In any case
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Trying to play the diversity card with Scorsese and Tarantino is just weird. And for sure, I'm not saying they're perfect. Especially Tarantino. But they've helped diversity in film for a while by preserving films, constantly bringing up non-white filmmakers (Tarantino especially), etc. And they didn't have to wait until caring about diversity was trendy like the MCU has. There's a reason why Bong Joon-ho shouted out Tarantino in his Oscar speech. They could be doing more, but still.
    World Cinema Project
     
    #87 MadVillainy, Nov 23, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
    MarvelFan and DarkKnight88 like this.
  13. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Yeah, this pretty much covers my view too. There are less old school movie stars now and when that generation goes there really won’t be all that many left. I love a lot of actors but the specific project they’re in now matters more than back in the 80s and 90s where the idea of going to see a certain actor’s films just because of them was more prevalent.
     
  14. Da-Scribe he/him

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    I don’t get why individual filmmakers are being compared to whole ass studios.

    Anyway, the idea of Marvel being some beacon of diversity is laughable to me. The first three phases were white af. They’ve made progress though for sure.
     
  15. Originalavenger Registered

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    To me it sounds like sour grapes on both Tarantino and especially Scorsese’s!! All Scorsese’s seems to make are mob type movies!! That gets boring!! Tarantino has made less and less films!! I also heard he’s going not gonna make 1 more!! So…it’s disneys fault that lots and lots of people like marvel movies over there films??!! GTFOH
     
  16. MadVillainy C'mon Son

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    This is the best breakdown of it. And I agree fully. Like years ago, a performer on the level of The Rock in terms of public consciousness would be like Will Smith doing $600m grossers every year. Now the IP is the star more than that. Everyone knows The Rock, but that doesn't mean he's gonna be a money maker

    To the bolded: I personally would just change the term "classic" to "hits". Not every hit or popular movie is a classic. I wouldn't say that Cruise, Smith, Pitt have that many bonafide classics. And I'm a fan of all 3. Especially Smith.

    But yes I agree. There's a difference between an actor (say like Daniel Kaluuya), a star (like Denzel Washington or Sanda Bullock), and a celebrity (like Ryan Reynolds or Mark Wahlberg). None are necessarily better than the others, requires more talent, or that everyone just sticks in one of those lanes, but they're just different. I feel like there are way more celebrity actors and actors than there are "stars".

    Anthony Mackie said it years ago. Same with a lot of film analysts. Which is why I'm so confused why people are up in arms about what Tarantino said. But :shrug:

    ^^^I will say though to be careful watching this because so many of the suggested next videos are incel-y or dudebro film people :ninja:
     
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  17. MadVillainy C'mon Son

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    Yeah so...I think stuff like this is why people have a hard time taking some takes on this stuff seriously. Because it comes from a place of not knowing certain things

    Scorsese doesn't just make mob type movies. He's had a varied career of mob movies, white collar crime movies, period pieces, a sports movie, a musical, documentaries, and a childrens movie. He's directed 41 movies including documentaries. How many of them are mob movies? 5. Mean Streets, Goodfellas, Casino, The Departed, and most recently The Irishman. 5/41. I'm not good at math but I know that 5/41 isn't enough to say "all [he] seems to make are mob type movies"

    And I don't even get the point of knocking the number of movies Tarantino has made. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

    And did Tarantino, or Scorsese, even say that the movies are "bad". I think the worst said was that they make it hard for original movies to get made and that they aren't high art...which they aren't trying to be.
     
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  18. Venom 1988 formerly Ultimate_Venom

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    Madvillainy said it better already but that's not at all what either of them said. And Tarantino doesn't even hate Marvel. In the same interview, he literally said he grew up reading comics and would have loved watching these movies when he was younger. What Tarantino said about movie stars isn't wrong either.
     
    #93 Venom 1988, Nov 28, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  19. Bayne Registered

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    It is wrong, though. He's blaming Marvel movies for a problem that literally predates the MCU.
     
  20. Venom 1988 formerly Ultimate_Venom

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    He's not though. Please point out in the interview he says this problem was caused by solely Marvel. When he says the "Marve-ization of Hollywood", he's not solely talking about Marvel. In his Howard Stern interview he said, if it's not this, it Star Wars, if its not that it's Harry Potter, if it's not that it's Transformers, etc...He's talking about Hollywood putting most of it's chips in Big IP. And again the dude isn't even hating on the movies, more so Hollywood's response to them. Whether you agree with that or not, well that's a different story.
     
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  21. Zyraquis Registered

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    There are actually many non IP movies, though many are just not gaining traction and incurred loses to studios. There are many factors to the domination of IPs in cinema not just big studios (or Marvel or whatever big gun of the day) but also moviegoers, movie makers (yes auteur directors too), ticket prices, steaming, cultural shift etc; it is not as simple as clickbait headlines or sensational one liners. People would just shun cinemas altogether if there were no big blockbusters and only non IP independent, cinematic, art etc movies that general audience wouldn’t pay that price to see in cinema should they want to see at all to begin with and keep tanking one after another. Maybe moviemakers need some soul searching too instead of just pointing fingers looking for the easiest blame.
     
    #96 Zyraquis, Nov 28, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  22. Bayne Registered

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    “But that is one of the — the legacy of the Marvel-ization of Hollywood movies.”

    The quote is right there. If you want to say he didn't really mean that or he was creatively edited or whatever based on something you heard in a completely different interview that hasn't even been posted here then, well, maybe somebody should have just said so instead of spending pages tsk-tsking about how people could possibly think he actually meant what he said.
     
  23. MadVillainy C'mon Son

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    People have a very narrow view of diversity.

    I've worked at many companies that think that having 3% of the workforce being POCs is diverse. There's a reason why tokenism is a thing. Diversity is really just a buzzword for people to feel like they're doing something to help. And while they are, most of the times I've seen are the bare minimum. It sucks but it is what it is. "I like Black Panther" or "I like Captain Marvel" has become the new "I can't be (racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.). I have a friend that is _______"
    It's also a good strawman or trump card to play since people are weird about how they argue now
    -Person 1: "I don't like this about the MCU"
    -Person 2: "Well they aren't racist and they're diverse"
    -Person 1: ...
    It's just how a majority of people argue now I've found. Always was there. But it's gotten worse over the years

    MCU isn't bad about diversity at all. But yeah I never look to them as a huge symbol of diversity even with BP and Shang Chi. The only thing I would knock them for is their treatment of women most of in their films (giving them very little personality or making them comedic punching bags like a CBS sitcom). And with how their diversity efforts feel very college brochure-y and disingenuous

    Honestly if you're gonna look at one big budget franchise for diversity, and I know the Hype is so bothered by the franchise (seriously look at any thread bout it), but I'd look at the Fast & Furious series... well at least racial diversity. They're not good with women.
    Pretty much since like 2003 the Fast series has: had a large amount of POCs in major roles (after 2Fast most of the lead or major roles have been POCs), a large amount of the directors have been POCs (from 2 Fast to upcoming Fast X/Fast 11 they've all been POCs), had a lot of influence from different cultures (hip hop and black American culture in 2 Fast, Japanese culture in Tokyo Drift, Brazilian & Latin American culture in Fast Five, etc.). And they were doing those things before it was trendy to and without patting themselves on the back like the MCU does.
    I'm not saying it's the best franchise out and as I said they still have other diversity issues, but if I'm looking for racial diversity (or brain dead action) out of the main franchises, I'm looking at the Fast series. I like the MCu more than the Fast series but it is what it is
     
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  24. Venom 1988 formerly Ultimate_Venom

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    Because you're taking his quote at face value and out of context. You don't even need to listen to a different interview to understand what he meant. You just hear the word marvel and immediately move on the defensive.
     
  25. Bayne Registered

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    Yes.

    No.

    I hear the word 'Marvel-ization' and I immediately see that he is making clear implication that Marvel is the original source of the change. Which is a nonsensical thing to believe, since the change predates Marvel's success. And absolutely nothing about the context of this interview in any way changes that or adds any kind of nuance to it.

    In fact, by the end of the article he's gone off on the train about how these kinds of movies are the only movies that get made now which is just plain stupid and doesn't exactly put one into a nuanced frame of mind.
     

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