The Natalie Portman/Jane Foster Thread

[TheCorpulent1]

I can't say I'd really mind if Jane gets written out. Portman seems to feel like she's slumming it just being in these movies, probably more than ever now that Branagh's out, plus the comics transition Thor away from Jane and onto Sif over time. But I'd hope they'd at least give Jane a tasteful send-off. Maybe have her meet someone while Thor was away in Asgard--a certain Dr. Keith Kincaid, perhaps.

 

[American Maid]

So I am guessing Portman will be wearing a wig since she is going blonde for her next film. I actually like her as a blonde.

Re: wig--not necessarily. She could just dye it back to brunette when she is done with the Terrence Malick film and ready to move to Thor2.

 

[American Maid]

I can't say I'd really mind if Jane gets written out. Portman seems to feel like she's slumming it just being in these movies, probably more than ever now that Branagh's out, plus the comics transition Thor away from Jane and onto Sif over time. But I'd hope they'd at least give Jane a tasteful send-off. Maybe have her meet someone while Thor was away in Asgard--a certain Dr. Keith Kincaid, perhaps.

I've seen people mention on this forum from time to time that Portman feels disenchanted/disappointed with the project now/is phoning it in/heart's not really into it/etc. She doesn't seem to be giving interviews right now, and I haven't been able to dig up, well, any comments from her about the project. The only hits I can get on a Google search are when she was upset that Patty Jenkins left the project.

So I'm hoping you (or others) can help me understand why people feel that Portman is not enthused about the project anymore and is at risk of phoning it in. As it is, as far as I can tell, she is still a-okay with her part in the franchise.

I continue to be pro-Jane and hope that she stays in the story (currently I feel it's 70/30). FWIW, if she does stay in the story, I think it's about 90/10 that she's an item with Thor (and I hope for that development too). But she might stay in the story because of her technical expertise with portals (so she may show up in TA2, for example), and not be an item with Thor.

If it's not to be that she and Thor are an item (or in the story at all), I absolutely would want a dignified resolution. I would even say it is necessary if Marvel wants any credibility regarding treating female characters differently in this new day and age. Keith Kinkaid, as implemented in the books (as I understand), was not that, though of course they could do a much better job with that plot line in the movies (and keep it a big secret, since Kinkaid is supposed to look rather like Blake/Thor, and so they could have Hemsworth do the role after a shave and a haircut and no one will be any wiser until the opening).

I think if Jane and Thor do not continue as an item, the most likely way that it unfolds is that Jane is the one who decides to end it. That way, Jane continues to have agency (which is one of the things I and others really liked about her role in Thor1), and it would not so far afield from the original-original story. Just updated language/spin. So I suppose various constituents would be satisfied (though I would still be disappointed).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't have anything specific to back it up, I just didn't find her all that engaging in Thor. She and Hemsworth didn't have particularly memorable chemistry to me, either. I remember in the interviews she did give for the first movie, she tended to mention Branagh as the main reason for her involvement too.

Granted, this is all just my impression of things. Your mileage may vary.

As for the rest, I wouldn't mind if Jane sticks around. Movie-Jane is at least a massive improvement over early comics-Jane. I've rather liked Jane in the comics since she became a doctor and wasn't constantly enmeshed in a forced soap opera triangle with Thor and Blake like she was in the '60s. I just prefer Sif as a love interest for Thor (although I'm starting to get bored of that too, since they haven't really done anything interesting now that she and Thor are actually paired up in the comics).

 

[American Maid]

I don't have anything specific to back it up, I just didn't find her all that engaging in Thor. She and Hemsworth didn't have particularly memorable chemistry to me, either. I remember in the interviews she did give for the first movie, she tended to mention Branagh as the main reason for her involvement too.

I liked their chemistry (as did, apparently, Branagh, though I guess he would be bound to say that--haha). FWIW, I was kind of "meh" about the Downey-Paltrow chemistry in the run up to IM2, and I gather I was the rare person felt that way on that. (I liked them in TA, though).

As for the rest, I wouldn't mind if Jane sticks around. Movie-Jane is at least a massive improvement over early comics-Jane. I've rather liked Jane in the comics since she became a doctor and wasn't constantly enmeshed in a forced soap opera triangle with Thor and Blake like she was in the '60s. I just prefer Sif as a love interest for Thor (although I'm starting to get bored of that too, since they haven't really done anything interesting now that she and Thor are actually paired up in the comics).

Yes, I am pro-Jane almost exclusively because of movie-Jane. Not that there aren't faults with how movie-Jane has been written. But it's a step forward, I'm grateful, and I'll take it.

From what little is in Thor1, I don't really see how Sif is Thor's one true lady-love, to quote language I've seen elsewhere. But I am happy to keep an open mind until I have a chance to read some more.

I picked up the one issue of the current title I could find in the comic book store that featured both Thor and Sif to gain some insight. (And I gather that makes me the only person in all the nine realms who ever saw the movies first and then went out and bought a comic book featuring any of the characters from the movies). That was the July, 2011 issue of _The Mighty Thor_ (it's issue #2, but issue number designations are worthless anymore). And the closest they got to any window on their relationship was when Thor said to Sif, "I need warming, woman." Oh. Be still. My beating heart.

But then it turned out that the writer on that issue is Fraction, and he seems to be about as beloved as Millar. So I guess I need to read something else.

 

[LauraT]

Yes I think I remember her saying how Branagh doing a Shakespearean CBM was so unexpected and interesting that was a big reason she took the role. She also said she enjoyed doing it right after Black Swan as it was relaxing to play a more light hearted character after nearly suffering a break down after BS. There were also rumors that she was unhappy after Patti Jenkins left but also "sources" saying she had some good meetings with Alan Taylor. And her role is supposedly being beefed up isn't it?

In some ways she seems the least enthusiastic cast member inm interviews but OTOH I've seen other interviews over the years where she admitted how hard it was to get good parts and several years she only did relatively small roles or tiny indies that that didn't get theatrical distribution, so it might also make sense to keep a relatively undemanding role in a massive franchise that still gets good reviews and apparently shedules around her other work. Do we know hoe many movies she signed on for, I imagine Marvel tried for the usual 9 but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 6 like CE or even 3.

 

[American Maid]

Yes I think I remember her saying how Branagh doing a Shakespearean CBM was so unexpected and interesting that was a big reason she took the role. She also said she enjoyed doing it right after Black Swan as it was relaxing to play a more light hearted character after nearly suffering a break down after BS. There were also rumors that she was unhappy after Patti Jenkins left but also "sources" saying she had some good meetings with Alan Taylor. And her role is supposedly being beefed up isn't it?

In some ways she seems the least enthusiastic cast member inm interviews but OTOH I've seen other interviews over the years where she admitted how hard it was to get good parts and several years she only did relatively small roles or tiny indies that that didn't get theatrical distribution, so it might also make sense to keep a relatively undemanding role in a massive franchise that still gets good reviews and apparently shedules around her other work. Do we know hoe many movies she signed on for, I imagine Marvel tried for the usual 9 but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 6 like CE or even 3.

After much digging, I finally found a reference that stated that Portman was contracted to do a total of 3 Thor movies (as opposed to any Avengers movies). It's about halfway through the article: http://www.newsarama.com/film/hey-thats-my-cape-avengers-females-100825.html

I would assume there is a clause that gives Marvel an out if the plot takes the character out of the story. In other words, she would be contractually obligated to play the role if Marvel needs the role played.

I don't know if her role is being beefed up. She is one of the few characters for whom I can't recall them saying the role is being beefed up. But she had a pretty significant role in Thor1. It might be hard to increase it. So that angle doesn't bother me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The idea that Sif is Thor's true love comes from the comics and the myths. Nothing in the first movie paints her as anything more than "one of the guys," really.

Matt Fraction's The Mighty Thor is terrible in general, and his handling of Thor and Sif's romance lived up to that. He treats Thor like a monosyllabic barbarian, so that "I need warming" thing probably does pass for high romance in his mind. Honestly, there's just not a lot of focus on romance at all in Thor's comics these days. One of the better depictions of his and Sif's love comes from their childhood, portrayed in Thor: Son of Asgard. In the ongoing series, after the '80s or so, they tend to focus more on action rather than Thor's personal life.

 

[American Maid]

The idea that Sif is Thor's true love comes from the comics and the myths. Nothing in the first movie paints her as anything more than "one of the guys," really.

Matt Fraction's The Mighty Thor is terrible in general, and his handling of Thor and Sif's romance lived up to that. He treats Thor like a monosyllabic barbarian, so that "I need warming" thing probably does pass for high romance in his mind. Honestly, there's just not a lot of focus on romance at all in Thor's comics these days. One of the better depictions of his and Sif's love comes from their childhood, portrayed in Thor: Son of Asgard. In the ongoing series, after the '80s or so, they tend to focus more on action rather than Thor's personal life.

Well, the idea of romantic love as a basis for marriage emerged in the 18th century (I venture to suppose it grew out of Enlightenment thinking). Certainly Sif was Thor's wife in the myths, but that doesn't mean they loved each other.

I agree that Sif in Thor1 is portrayed as one of his buddies. Which, in its own way, is also progressive.

I figured the "true love" idea came from the comics; I just have to find the book(s) that depict it so I can fairly assess it. Thanks for the tip on Thor: Son of Asgard.

Your comments about recent portrayals raises another possibility: Jane exits the story and no one takes her place. Hmmm.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, it seemed like the ladies liked Thor as eye candy more than Jane or the romance in the first movie. But I doubt we'll see them cut all romance out completely in the movies the way they have in the comics. Disney's investing too much money to take that kind of chance; conventional Hollywood wisdom says a romance is required for the broadest possible appeal.

 

[American Maid]

Yeah, it seemed like the ladies liked Thor as eye candy more than Jane or the romance in the first movie. But I doubt we'll see them cut all romance out completely in the movies the way they have in the comics. Disney's investing too much money to take that kind of chance; conventional Hollywood wisdom says a romance is required for the broadest possible appeal.

Do you mean the ladies in the audience?

I agree that there's likely to be an element of romance in future films for the very reason you mention.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I was talking about ladies in the audience. Every girl I've talked about Thor with has mentioned Hemsworth's bare-chested scene. Far fewer have noted whether the romance was good or Portman and Hemsworth had decent chemistry or anything.

 

[American Maid]

Yeah, I was talking about ladies in the audience. Every girl I've talked about Thor with has mentioned Hemsworth's bare-chested scene. Far fewer have noted whether the romance was good or Portman and Hemsworth had decent chemistry or anything.

Well, I guess I'm out of step then. Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the fan service. But my focus has been on other aspects.

I suppose there's so much commentary because fan service for female heterosexual fans is so unusual. Though I have noticed that every male Avenger with a solo movie thus far has managed to lose his shirt.

Since most of those moments seem to be connected with whomever's origin story, interested fans may be disappointed in Phase 2; it may be harder to work such moments into those plots.

 

[04nbod]

I can't say I'd really mind if Jane gets written out. Portman seems to feel like she's slumming it just being in these movies, probably more than ever now that Branagh's out, plus the comics transition Thor away from Jane and onto Sif over time. But I'd hope they'd at least give Jane a tasteful send-off. Maybe have her meet someone while Thor was away in Asgard--a certain Dr. Keith Kincaid, perhaps.

Thor doesn't 'transition over time'. Jane gets ditched by Odin and Thor gets sent off with Sif in the very same issue. Keith Kincaid was never a tasteful send off, he was a plot device to section Jane off and away from Thor so Thor couldn't be with her even after they got their memories back.

Yes, I am pro-Jane almost exclusively because of movie-Jane. Not that there aren't faults with how movie-Jane has been written. But it's a step forward, I'm grateful, and I'll take it.

From what little is in Thor1, I don't really see how Sif is Thor's one true lady-love, to quote language I've seen elsewhere. But I am happy to keep an open mind until I have a chance to read some more.

I picked up the one issue of the current title I could find in the comic book store that featured both Thor and Sif to gain some insight. (And I gather that makes me the only person in all the nine realms who ever saw the movies first and then went out and bought a comic book featuring any of the characters from the movies). That was the July, 2011 issue of _The Mighty Thor_ (it's issue #2, but issue number designations are worthless anymore). And the closest they got to any window on their relationship was when Thor said to Sif, "I need warming, woman." Oh. Be still. My beating heart.

But then it turned out that the writer on that issue is Fraction, and he seems to be about as beloved as Millar. So I guess I need to read something else.

Fraction for all his faults gets the dynamics right. The point of that relationship is to show us that Thor uses Sif as an emotional punching bag. There is no equality in character there. Sif is desperate for Thor and while Thor loves her greatly it isn't the same kind of affection. Fraction has Thor call Enchantress with the same endearment as Sif, 'woman'. Compare that to Thor's only scene with Jane under Fraction where he takes time to explain things to her and says 'Ah, good Jane'. Jane is a character who just won't accept being called 'woman', she will call him on it. 60's Jane was the same.

The idea that Sif is Thor's true love comes from the comics and the myths. Nothing in the first movie paints her as anything more than "one of the guys," really.

She's not Thor's true love in the myths either. He got around. As for the comics, it depends what comics you read. If you read between the 60s and 70s then Jane is often called his true love.

One of the better depictions of his and Sif's love comes from their childhood, portrayed in Thor: Son of Asgard. In the ongoing series, after the '80s or so, they tend to focus more on action rather than Thor's personal life.

Thor/Sif works in the childhood sense because they are both hotheaded and arrogant. When Thor goes through his change and becomes a better person that perspective changes.

 

[jaqua99]

Natalie made the first movie difficult. I found it hard to watch any scene with her in it, I think she was weak, and her scenes seemed awkward. I hope she has a small part, and gets killed off.

I never liked her, i never found her attractive (in fact the complete opposite), I never thought she was a good actress, and I just don't like her in any movie really.

 

[Caboose]

My ideal scenario would be: Jane somehow dies in this one. Thor is super pissed and goes into Asgardian Berserker rage and kicks ash. He gets closer to Sif but still platonic for now. Thor 3: they bang.

 

[Chewy]

I thought Natalie was good in the first one, and she had a fun, breezy chemistry with Hemsworth.

I know this is the land of Sif shippers but I doubt they'll kill off Jane, or break them up.

 

[Caboose]

I thought Natalie was good in the first one, and she had a fun, breezy chemistry with Hemsworth.

I know this is the land of Sif shippers but I doubt they'll kill off Jane, or break them up.

So, what you're saying is....threesome?

 

[cherokeesam]

I thought Natalie was good in the first one, and she had a fun, breezy chemistry with Hemsworth.

I know this is the land of Sif shippers but I doubt they'll kill off Jane, or break them up.

I think it all depends on Natalie, really. Like others have said, there's the impression (not backed up by any actual comments or quotes by Natalie; but it's really her *lack* of discussion about the movie or her role that speaks volumes) that she only signed up for the first movie because of Branagh and Shakespeare in the Park (doth thy mother knoweth thou weareth drapes?).

But if she's ready, willing and able, I'm sure Marvel would give her another go for at least one more Jane Foster episode after this one.

Me, I'm betting on Sif though, as you say.

 

[Chewy]

Hemsworth hasn't really talked about it since he finished doing Snow White press, either. Most of the actors really only talk about it when they're asked, while they're promoting other stuff. Portman hasn't had anything to promote since, well, Thor. And she was super pregnant when she would have otherwise been doing the rounds for it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor/Sif works in the childhood sense because they are both hotheaded and arrogant. When Thor goes through his change and becomes a better person that perspective changes.

We've talked about all this stuff before and we both clearly have pretty strong feelings, so I know we're not gonna change each other's mind about anything. But this point in particular I disagree with from a narrative perspective. Good romances have a bit of conflict, and I liked that Sif embodied that godly arrogance and looked down on humanity, yet Thor loved her regardless. I like the stories where Thor/Blake tries to convince Sif that humanity is worthy of his love as much as she is. The OGN Thor: I, Whom the Gods Would Destroy is a particularly good example of this, in my opinion. Granted, Sif doesn't seem especially moved.

 

[American Maid]

Hemsworth hasn't really talked about it since he finished doing Snow White press, either. Most of the actors really only talk about it when they're asked, while they're promoting other stuff. Portman hasn't had anything to promote since, well, Thor. And she was super pregnant when she would have otherwise been doing the rounds for it.

Even Jaimie Alexander hasn't had anything to say since she posted the picture of Pygmalion from (I think) the Louvre and declared it to be Thor and Sif (ha!). And she usually has something to say.

It's possible that they want everyone to say as little as possible to avoid letting too many cats out of too many bags this far in advance of the movie's release.

 

[American Maid]

She's not Thor's true love in the myths either. He got around.

Viking men, as the scholars so charmingly put it, had access to other women outside their marriages, and it wasn't really considered adultery. Naturally, the same standard did not apply to Viking women.

Marriages in the Viking Age, like in many societies, was about securing larger family ties. I think they wanted to ensure they could live with each other when arranging marriages, but love wasn't really a consideration (though it undoubtedly happened among some matches).

As far as I know, there is not a tale among the myths in which Tor and Sif are not married (and, for example, dating, as it were).

Thor doesn't 'transition over time'. Jane gets ditched by Odin and Thor gets sent off with Sif in the very same issue. Keith Kincaid was never a tasteful send off, he was a plot device to section Jane off and away from Thor so Thor couldn't be with her even after they got their memories back.

I hadn't realized it was in the very same issue. But yes, as I understand, Kincaid is not so much a love interest as a McGuffin. And if you think about it, that's not really fair to him either.

But as I said earlier, it is possible for them to write it so that it unfolds more naturally, and in a more dignified way for everyone involved. (not that I want this to be the outcome, just that it's quite possible to do so)

Fraction for all his faults gets the dynamics right. The point of that relationship is to show us that Thor uses Sif as an emotional punching bag. There is no equality in character there. Sif is desperate for Thor and while Thor loves her greatly it isn't the same kind of affection. Fraction has Thor call Enchantress with the same endearment as Sif, 'woman'. Compare that to Thor's only scene with Jane under Fraction where he takes time to explain things to her and says 'Ah, good Jane'. Jane is a character who just won't accept being called 'woman', she will call him on it. 60's Jane was the same.

Well, I haven't read these other stories in Fraction's run (though I think I've seen the panel you describe regarding Thor and Jane), so it's hard for me to evaluate. Within this one July, 2011 issue, though, I do not get the sense that he is using Sif as an emotional punching bag. Most of their dialogue concerns this pathetic army that they're trying to train. Regarding emotional content, for Sif's part, she tells Thor that Loki, who is a child here, wants very badly to impress him. And then she expresses concern (matched by the artwork of her face) about a wound in his abdomen that he's clutching.

So I could see that being consistent with Sif being more emotionally invested in the relationship than Thor (though there could easily be other interpretations, too). But it doesn't look like abuse, at least from this one issue.

I don't get a strong sense that Thor loves her from this one issue, though I have seen isolated panels that are also clearly Coipel's art where he does state that. So I continue to not really understand why this is such a great, true love.

Regarding being called "woman" vs. calling Thor on it, I seriously doubt movie-Sif would put up with an insult. I have seen many panels of Jane not taking any nonsense from either villain or Hero, so I agree with your assessment there. (So between these two ladies, Our Hero might be in trouble! )

Thor/Sif works in the childhood sense because they are both hotheaded and arrogant. When Thor goes through his change and becomes a better person that perspective changes.

That may well be, though I will also say that cuts both ways. This is from an interview Kevin Feige did with Collider:

"Collider: How has Thor’s growth into a man shaping what you wanna do in the sequel, in terms of him being an adult?
"Feige: Well it's sort of the crux of the whole sequel. . . .it's Thor and Jane, to continue that dynamic. . . ."


That could be interpreted as asserting that Jane is Thor's love at the end of his adolescence, and in later movies, when he is an adult, maybe he feels differently.

However, you make a good point in that events of their childhood are on the order of a millennium ago. People change and grow apart. So maybe after I have a chance to read it I should also look around to see how their relationship is being portrayed now-a-days.

As I said, I don't really see how Sif is Thor's true love, especially from the material in the movie. But I'm willing to try to understand where people are coming from.

 

[American Maid]

Good romances have a bit of conflict, and I liked that Sif embodied that godly arrogance and looked down on humanity, yet Thor loved her regardless. I like the stories where Thor/Blake tries to convince Sif that humanity is worthy of his love as much as she is. The OGN Thor: I, Whom the Gods Would Destroy is a particularly good example of this, in my opinion. Granted, Sif doesn't seem especially moved.

True, although too much conflict and after a while it's just draining for the two parties.

And there is also potential for Thor and Jane not to see eye-to-eye on various things.

 

[metaphysician]

Just to mention, I thought the first movie made it pretty obvious that Sif had serious unresolved feelings towards Thor. There's a reason Sif talked with Frigga about Thor, and about "the mortal woman." Its just, Sif is *also* a friend and comrade and very much a tomboy, which complicates matters.

Basically, she's the Unlucky Childhood Friend.