The NEW Batman?

That's certainly true to some extent. Yes, Batman realizes that his war against crime is greater than his own needs, but deep down, his personal motivation should still be there to a degree. After all, you could say that his desire to eradicate crime is an attempt to make sure what happened to his parents and to him doesn't happen to anyone else.



I didn't say that Tim didn't have a dark streak to him (although I thought to whole idea behind Robin was that he was to counterbalance the darkness of Batman) hence why I believe that if DC does decide to go ahead with this, they've set up Tim to be "Batman Jr." However, in comparison to Batman, it's not at the same level. No offense to Tim Drake fans, but Batman's darkness is almost at the levels of a Greek Tragedy or Shakespearian Drama, while Tim's "darkness" is can be described as "Emo" and is akin to a Linkin Park song.



Precisely my point. Even in Batman Begins, it was clear that while Terry McGuiness was wearing the Batman outfit, Bruce Wayne was still "Batman" despite his age and heart problems; in fact, you could say that the series was really a twist on the "Batman and Robin" partnership. Regardless, Terry STILL got tagged with being a "fake" and that is precisely what any new Batman will be tagged as--and justly so in my opinion. It might be interesting for awhile, but eventually readers don't want to read about a "pretender to the throne" but the real, genuine article. Especially an iconoclastic character like Batman.

All thou your analysis is quite thought out you made one little mistake.....Terry McGuiness was in "Batman Beyond"....."Batman Begins" was a movie.:whatever:
 
that is a little mistake. One that barely matters!
 
Dick did a good job in Prodigal.

All we can do as fans is speculate and argue, but in terms of DCU canon, Dick Grayson is the only one who has proven that he could adequately continue on the Batman legacy. At least at this point in continuity.
 
I didn't say that Tim didn't have a dark streak to him (although I thought to whole idea behind Robin was that he was to counterbalance the darkness of Batman) hence why I believe that if DC does decide to go ahead with this, they've set up Tim to be "Batman Jr." However, in comparison to Batman, it's not at the same level. No offense to Tim Drake fans, but Batman's darkness is almost at the levels of a Greek Tragedy or Shakespearian Drama, while Tim's "darkness" is can be described as "Emo" and is akin to a Linkin Park song.

Are you ******ed? Tim has had his best friend, girlfriend, and both parents killed before he's even 18. All Bruce had was his parents when he was a bit younger. Over the many, many, many years of Batman's character development, yeah, he's gotten a lot more darkness to him, but to sya that Tim's darkness is emo/Linkin Park (which isn't even an emo band to begin with) is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.
 
Dick did a good job in Prodigal.

All we can do as fans is speculate and argue, but in terms of DCU canon, Dick Grayson is the only one who has proven that he could adequately continue on the Batman legacy. At least at this point in continuity.

Yes, true.

I agree here too. Dick has proven himself. Now he just need to work on the perona of Batman.
 
Are you ******ed? Tim has had his best friend, girlfriend, and both parents killed before he's even 18. All Bruce had was his parents when he was a bit younger. Over the many, many, many years of Batman's character development, yeah, he's gotten a lot more darkness to him, but to sya that Tim's darkness is emo/Linkin Park (which isn't even an emo band to begin with) is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.

Calm down.
 
Dick did a good job in Prodigal.

All we can do as fans is speculate and argue, but in terms of DCU canon, Dick Grayson is the only one who has proven that he could adequately continue on the Batman legacy. At least at this point in continuity.

All true but we've seen it done already with Dick......it would be like watching a repeat of a Baseball game and expecting a different outcome:woot:
 
Are you ******ed? Tim has had his best friend, girlfriend, and both parents killed before he's even 18. All Bruce had was his parents when he was a bit younger. Over the many, many, many years of Batman's character development, yeah, he's gotten a lot more darkness to him, but to sya that Tim's darkness is emo/Linkin Park (which isn't even an emo band to begin with) is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.


Simmer down.....simmer down.....


BTW, that was no where near the "dumbest" thing on these forums....:yay:
 
All thou your analysis is quite thought out you made one little mistake.....Terry McGuiness was in "Batman Beyond"....."Batman Begins" was a movie.:whatever:

:oYeah, I just saw that. Just corrected it with the 'ol magic "Edit" button. And thanks.

Not Jake said:
that is a little mistake. One that barely matters!

Oh, come now. You should know by now that on a message board about comics that every little detail no matter how insignificant, unimportant, or downright obscure always matters. It's an unwritten rule that we must make mountains out of molehills after all.:woot:

SoulLeSS said:
Are you ******ed? Tim has had his best friend, girlfriend, and both parents killed before he's even 18. All Bruce had was his parents when he was a bit younger. Over the many, many, many years of Batman's character development, yeah, he's gotten a lot more darkness to him, but to sya that Tim's darkness is emo/Linkin Park (which isn't even an emo band to begin with) is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums.

Well, I'm sorry, but the way the treatment Tim has received with regards to losing loved ones comes off not so much tragic but as maudlin. And while it is a blow for someone to lose that many people at 18, it's not nearly as traumatic as having both your parents shot down by some thug when your only eight years old, which is what Bruce had to endure. And like I said, Robins are not supposed to be brooding, grim characters. They are supposed provide balance to Batman, who is a brooding, grim character.
 
Well, I'm sorry, but the way the treatment Tim has received with regards to losing loved ones comes off not so much tragic but as maudlin. And while it is a blow for someone to lose that many people at 18, it's not nearly as traumatic as having both your parents shot down by some thug when your only eight years old, which is what Bruce had to endure. And like I said, Robins are not supposed to be brooding, grim characters. They are supposed provide balance to Batman, who is a brooding, grim character.
Bruce was twelve, first of all. Second, that's ******ed. You can't compare the two and say "well Tim should buck up, he lost everyone at 17(not 18)".
 
Bruce was twelve, first of all. Second, that's ******ed. You can't compare the two and say "well Tim should buck up, he lost everyone at 17(not 18)".

May I ask you what continuity your following when you got that age????Not trying to start a big debate but his age when his parents died has changed over the years.
 
May I ask you what continuity your following when you got that age????Not trying to start a big debate but his age when his parents died has changed over the years.
Year One places his parents death in and around the age of twelve. It's a rough estimate judging from his disappearance from Gotham.
 
*points to the Death of Superman*
 
yeah the offical batman book said he was 8 years old.


What book is that????????

Year One places his parents death in and around the age of twelve. It's a rough estimate judging from his disappearance from Gotham.
I think that's his Golden Age origin. I've heard him say twelve in some sources before though.

Ok I can see it now but it has been stated in other books from DC [please dont aske me to site it] that it was at the age of 8.

But DC changes such things every few years so what can you do.
 
I would rather see Robin killed off for good, because he's a character that belongs in the 60s...I would rather see Alfred trip into some toxic chemicals, get some superpowers, and so that Alfred would become the new Batman instead of Robin.
 
Everything I've read says he lost his parents at 8.
 
Bruce was twelve, first of all. Second, that's ******ed. You can't compare the two and say "well Tim should buck up, he lost everyone at 17(not 18)".

First of all, eight years old is pretty much the "offical" age in which Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered. You're probably thinking that he was twelve because Year One states that he spent "twelve years abroad." Year One establishes actually places the age where Bruce saw his parents murdered when he was seven. However, both Zero Hour and the Superman/Batman Secret Files both confirm that Bruce was eight years old. You can check this out here: http://en.dcdatabaseproject.com/Batman_404_(1987)

Second, while Tim has had to endure the loss of both his parents, Stephanie, and Conner (not to mention Bart), all of which is tragic for him, that I've never denied, it is not (and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, or would you prefer "******ed?") quite at the same level as Bruce when he lost his parents. Why? Correct me if I'm wrong but Tim never witnessed his parents, Stephanie, Conner, or Bart actually die in front of him when they were killed. Second, nearly all the deaths happened while he was in his teenage years, and while that certainly would be a life changing experience for him, he is still old enough to process it. By contrast, Bruce actually saw his parents murdered right in front of him while he was still very young. It's a big difference having someone you loved killed and finding out about it after the fact and having actually witness the people you love being murdered when you're still too young to completely understand what is happening. Tim, given his age and the fact that he never actually witnessed any of the deaths, would have a much better chance, although it certainly would be hard to get over of coping with the death, of his loved ones than Bruce did.

Also, I'd argue that, from a dramatic standpoint, it is a little excessive what Tim went through, hence why I called what happened to him Maudlin. Perhaps melodramatic would be a better word. When Tim lost his mom to violence prior to becoming Robin, that was understandable in terms of establishing him as Robin. When he lost his dad, that made sense from a narrative standpoint to further tie him in with Batman. But then when the Spoiler was killed and then Superboy, and not to mention Bart--well then the pilling on of deaths is really starting to become excessive and, in a way, cheapen the impact of death for the character, IMO. And it's also transparent because it's DC's obvious attempt at setting Tim to be Batman's successor should they decide to have Bruce kick the bucket. Heck, personality wise, Tim is behaving more and more like a Batman than he is a Robin. However, by the very fact he was Robin to begin with, Tim was already being groomed to take over anyway, so trying to darken the character more is completely unnecessary.
 
Having pulled out my Superman/Batman Secret Files & Origins (2003), Bruce was 10 years old when his parents was gunned down.
 
Having pulled out my Superman/Batman Secret Files & Origins (2003), Bruce was 10 years old when his parents was gunned down.

Well, perhaps the source I cited got it wrong. They are claiming this:

This issue [Batman 404] establishes that Bruce Wayne is around twenty-five years old when he first begins his crime-fighting career as the Batman. In narrative, he states that he was only seven-years-old (possibly an honest error by the writer) when Joe Chill murdered his parents. This, however, contradicts other sources, such as the Zero Hour timeline, which establishes Bruce as eight years-old at the time of his parents' death. Batman's profile in Superman/Batman Secret Files and Origins (2003) confirms the Zero Hour timeline and establishes that Bruce is in fact eight years old when his parents are killed.

Also, according to the current DC timeline, they also state that Bruce was eight when his parents were killed, since they also say that Bruce was born "Thrity-Eight years ago" from the present and that his parents were killed eight years later.

"38 Years Ago"
* Bruce Wayne is born to Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne in Gotham City.

"30 Years Ago"

* A mugger murders Thomas and Martha Wayne in what will come to be known as "Crime Alley" in Gotham City. Their son Bruce swears to fight a war on crime. (Flashback in Detective Comics #33, November, 1939 and in various other issues). The killer, Joe Chill is eventually caught. (Infinite Crisis #7).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_DC_Universe
 
First of all, eight years old is pretty much the "offical" age in which Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered. You're probably thinking that he was twelve because Year One states that he spent "twelve years abroad." Year One establishes actually places the age where Bruce saw his parents murdered when he was seven. However, both Zero Hour and the Superman/Batman Secret Files both confirm that Bruce was eight years old. You can check this out here: http://en.dcdatabaseproject.com/Batman_404_(1987)
.

No he was right about year one.At one point a reporter states that Bruce is 25 years old....later when Bruce is in his study he is seen thinking to him self that he has waited 18 years since the night his parents were killed. 25-18=12

But some of year one has been retcon since then.
 
No he was right about year one.At one point a reporter states that Bruce is 25 years old....later when Bruce is in his study he is seen thinking to him self that he has waited 18 years since the night his parents were killed. 25-18=12

But some of year one has been retcon since then.

I was wondering about how long Bruce waited until he acted, since I remember reading Year One but forgot the exact number. However, I'm not sure how you arrived at your figures but the calculator I used, and I double checked it as well, puts Bruce's age at 7 years old when his parents died. See for yourself:

25 (age Bruce was when he started as Batman)
-18 (number of years since the night his parents were killed)
------
= 7 (age Bruce was when his parents were murdered)

I won't hold it against you though. :cwink:
 
WTF?!?

25-18=7...... how do you get 12?!?
 

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