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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]364195[/split]
Hypestyle said:all too bad that Robin wasn't properly incorporated into the Burton films.. if handled properly it could have been interesting...
That's wholly inaccurate.Or the fact the character sucks, makes no sense ... even less sense with Burton's Gotham / Batman ... and the fact Burton and crew had no interest in him at all.
For the better in my book
Totally accurate from my perspective.That's wholly inaccurate.
Totally accurate from my perspective.
A neurotic, obsessive, suicidal, crazy man who fights crime at night dressed in the dark visage of a Bat ... and is fractured emotionally, essentially still an 8 year old in essence who never grew up ... seeking a father figure himself
In turn being that disturbed man yet supposedly is being a father figure to a young boy makes ZERO sense. As does the threatning image of a all black Bat fighting crime, with a colorful red and green CHILD makes zero sense as well.
As does the entire concept of introducing a CHILD into being a vigilante. Real heroic endeavour right there, Batman. If anything you should be steering him away from that life. Making something better and more productive out of it. It's Bruce Wayne's curse cause he's crazy. He shouldn't want it for anyone else.
Not to mention in the classic sense, the oddly disturbing homosexual or pedophile like undertones or potential jokes.
I prefer the more dark idea of one broken and disturbed man's self expected one man war on crime.
Totally accurate from my perspective.
A neurotic, obsessive, suicidal, crazy man who fights crime at night dressed in the dark visage of a Bat ... and is fractured emotionally, essentially still an 8 year old in essence who never grew up ... seeking a father figure himself
In turn being that disturbed man yet supposedly is being a father figure to a young boy makes ZERO sense. As does the threatning image of a all black Bat fighting crime, with a colorful red and green CHILD makes zero sense as well.
As does the entire concept of introducing a CHILD into being a vigilante. Real heroic endeavour right there, Batman. If anything you should be steering him away from that life. Making something better and more productive out of it. It's Bruce Wayne's curse cause he's crazy. He shouldn't want it for anyone else.
Not to mention in the classic sense, the oddly disturbing homosexual or pedophile like undertones or potential jokes.
I prefer the more dark idea of one broken and disturbed man's self expected one man war on crime.
You notice how you can kinda tell you're wrong when four people immediately pop up to disagree with you?Totally accurate from my perspective.
A neurotic, obsessive, suicidal, crazy man who fights crime at night dressed in the dark visage of a Bat ... and is fractured emotionally, essentially still an 8 year old in essence who never grew up ... seeking a father figure himself
In turn being that disturbed man yet supposedly is being a father figure to a young boy makes ZERO sense. As does the threatning image of a all black Bat fighting crime, with a colorful red and green CHILD makes zero sense as well.
As does the entire concept of introducing a CHILD into being a vigilante. Real heroic endeavour right there, Batman. If anything you should be steering him away from that life. Making something better and more productive out of it. It's Bruce Wayne's curse cause he's crazy. He shouldn't want it for anyone else.
Not to mention in the classic sense, the oddly disturbing homosexual or pedophile like undertones or potential jokes.
I prefer the more dark idea of one broken and disturbed man's self expected one man war on crime.
Burton was also a consultant in the selection of the Robin costume redesign by Neil Adams which premiered in Batman #457 back in the fall of 1990; about 8 months before BR even started filming. If he had no interest I doubt he'd have even bothered.
Is that so? I must admit I never knew that, whats the source for this information?
I realize this has already been pointed out, but multiple scripts Burton was part of for both BATMAN and BATMAN RETURNS featured Robin in them before the character was cut out. Burton did sketches of Batman and Robin, and, as has been pointed out, Wayans was cast at one point, and Burton did have some input into Tim Drake's Robin costume. To say he had no interest in the character is absurd.
I'm surprised considering that you do a lot of Batman research. It's been cited many places but I could pin point one specific reference. I was actually re-reading all of the Tim Drake becomes Robin stuff by Alan Grant recently in light of the Scott Lobdell/Red Robin controversy and came across an old reference to the costume's origin.
It was in the letter pages of Batman #463 which came out in April of 1991. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner & my digital camera recently took an unfortunate dive in a pool but since I type pretty fast I'll just retype the letter and response verbatim
Hey, Denny
BATMAN #457 was excellent. Alan did a great job both on and with the Scarecrow. And I was quite impressed with his treatment of Tim Drake. His progression from young adult to young crimefighter has been handled extremely well by everyone involved with the project so far, and I have complete faith that things will remain at this current level of quality.
And the new costume looks great. I just hope there's some Kevlar in it somewhere. Who came up with the design? Later.
- Uncle Elvis
Don't worry, Unc - there's plenty of Kevlar in it, not to mention "fluid damped impact attenuation pads"! I'm not sure what it means, but it sounds impressive.
Tim Burton was a consultant in the selection of the costume, but the design was created by none other than Neal Adams.
That's pure conjecture on your part.Right, to say that he had no interest would be wrong, but ultimately, he didn't believe the character fit into either of those films or the world that he was portraying. I can't imagine the Burton-Keaton Batman with a Robin. And it's not because I hate Robin; I do prefer a Batman who fights solo (and you know what I mean by solo - obviously Alfred and Gordon should always be there), but that Batman with a Robin? Can't see it. And neither could Burton, ultimately.
That's pure conjecture on your part.
Every quote that I've ever read more eluded to Robin being cut out of Batman Returns due to time constraints, not because of any reasoning that he didn't "fit" into Burton's world.
In fact, the simple fact that Burton went as far as casting an actor for the role pretty much infers that Burton did very much have his own unique vision for the character.
Thanks for making my point.Not really. You had me second-guessing myself - "Am I making up the idea that Burton felt Robin wouldn't quite fit in his Batman?" - so I dug up some of the quotes I was sure I remembered from the DVDs.
From the Batman commentary:
I think Sam and I, from the very beginning, that was thing number one, no Robin. I mean, just because, when youre trying to do a new Batman movie, he just does not fit. And I even think Bob Kane, he was happy that there was no Robin in it. Because again, it doesnt feel a guy who wants to be hidden and alone and hide and not be found out And its hard to come up with a psychological profile for a guy wearing a little red outfit with green booties, you know?
From the Batman Returns commentary:
With this movie, um, with all the other characters, again, didnt find a place for Robin. I mean, I think I was always against it, and again, we didnt really even we abandoned it pretty quickly any thought of it just because of all the other characters.
Daniel Waters, from the Batman Returns Dark Side of the Knight doc:
We surprisingly got very little directives from the studio, like, You must have Robin. There was none of that, really. We did try it, we did try something, and Tim was big on not making a big deal about it. We wanted to work in maybe a Robin character. I could tell he was not enthusiastic about it from the get-go .But we wanted more of a thing where it was kind of like something that would be hinted at and then developed in a later movie.
Thanks for making my point.