Mace Dolex
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After 23 years new pictures are still popping up, nice view of Keaton without the gloves and Bat-emblem.
After 23 years new pictures are still popping up, nice view of Keaton without the gloves and Bat-emblem.
I'm getting more of a Joker vibe.I'm getting a Tiny Tim vibe from Tim Burton in that picture...
Last night I re-read the first Black Mask story. Sam Hamm definitely ripped this off and imposed lots of stuff on the Joker.
It's clear now: Nicholson's Joker = Black Mask + Cesar Romero (Silver Age Joker)
So the Joker wasn't based on "Five Way Revenge", "The Dark Knight Returns", "The Killing Joke", "The Laughing Fish" and whatever (not that those stories are all good).
Well, it's obvious that you can cite some examples here and there but in many cases I think it's just a coincidence. Sam Hamm obviously read lots of comics (and watched the TV series) so a lot of things slip in.
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The Joker of this time wasn't even that extreme, a deadly prankster, yes, but not that deranged (talking about 1985).
Then I thought about Black Mask and noticed that you actually couldn't feature him in a movie because everything about his original appearance screamed Jack Nicholson except the humor.
Yes. Until the very late 80s (by the time the film was already well into production), Joker was a little less homicidal and deranged. I think Nicholson portrays that Joker well - there isn't the real 'nasty' streak to him that tends to happen when Joker gets angry in modern interpretations.
Hmmm...while I accept there are similarities, it's more in the way Black Mask is written by individual writers. The character can be spun differently, or just be another Joker clone - much like Riddler really.
I'm writing a fanscript at the moment for a third Burton Batman movie where Max Shreck becomes Black Mask. While I think yes there are similarities to Joker in the way I've written him, I think there is also enough of a difference to make him his own villain and deserve featuring him. The thing that helps the most was having him know Batman's identity (following from Returns) - it makes the cat-and-mouse between him and Batman a bit different from Joker, who no matter what, never seems to find out and in modern interpretations, never really cares. I'd be interested to know what you think.
I don't like most modern portrayals of the Joker. Not going to say they aren't true to the character but... I don't like the Joker gassing kids. I don't like the Joker tied to a chair and slobbering. I don't like the Joker looking almost disfigured (I think the combination of a tall and skinny guy with a long face that is entirely white and the big smile is scary enough).
I am, of course, talking about the original interpretation, not the cult leader and the crime boss from the 00s. In this time Black Mask was actually scarier than the Joker to me, since Black Mask didn't take it as a game. He was dead serious.
One of my favorite shots of Batman in the movie
Certainly a way of looking at it.I've been a bit dense, but I've realised it, I think.
Joker being a narcissist in the movie, concerned for his looks. Does Joker do what he does, like scarring Alicia's face, all because he's trying to 'perfect' people, to be like him? Because he see's himself as 'art' and then see's Alicia as art after her face is like his.
Could he be doing this because he's trying to cope with becoming disfigured? He's lying to himself that he thinks he looks good?
I take it that he in the moment when he looks into the plastic surgeon's mirror, he snaps. He's not trying to convince himself that he looks good as a coping mechanism, he truly does think that, he does embrace it, he uses this as a way to start remaking himself and then Gotham. I'm not rejecting complexity or hidden meanings, but I think that when he says, "I'm the world's first fully functioning homicidal artist," that's exactly it. In one of the Simpsons flashback episodes, Marge hands Homer a picture that Bart's just drawn, which we don't see, and Homer looks, then huddles and screams, "Send it to Hell!" I think that's essentially this Joker, an artist who now has the means and ability to pursue his vision. A vision that's the most twisted, gruesome joke.