The Official Batman & Robin Thread

Discussion in 'Batman World' started by The Joker_1000, Feb 26, 2008.

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  1. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    It's fun under the right circumstances. It is what it is. It's not what a lot of people wanted, but it's a valid take on the characters, and it's very of its time, cinematically and comic bookwise.
     
    #526
  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    I started thinking about why Batman and Robin is as poor as it is, and identified 3 things:
    1) The dramatic and drastic shift in tone between it and the previous films
    2) Arnold's over-acting
    3) Clooney being totally ill-suited both for following on from Keaton and Kilmer (because he's an entirely different type of actor than them) and for the tone of the script

    This in turn led me to start thinking about what could've been done to avoid or mitigate these issues, and I came up with the following ideas:
    1) Revise the script so that it retained more of the gothic/noir tone present in B89, BR, and BF
    2) Drop Freeze's puns
    3) Cast David Duchovny as Bruce/Batman; he is very much the same type of actor as Keaton and Kilmer, and would've felt like he was playing the same character

    Everything else about the movie could have worked and worked well.
     
    #527
  3. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Just Some Nut

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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    ^ If you're going to disagree with me, I would appreciate it if you explained why you disagree with me.
     
    #529
  5. Brain Damage

    Brain Damage Everything Under the Sun

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    Kane just loves his Freeze puns too much :p

    It makes him come off kind of cold sometimes.
     
    #530
  6. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Just Some Nut

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    Just to put it simply, B&R knew exactly what it wanted to be...which I can't say the same for BF (although I still love it).
     
    #531
  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    I initially liked Batman and Robin after seeing it in theaters, but it is the worst of the live-action films and does suffer from the decisions that were made concerning it, especially in relation to the films that preceded it.

    To its credit, the film does have elements in it that are remnants of the tone from the 3 preceding films - manifested primarily in the characterization of Poison Ivy (who reminds me very much of The Joker, The Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, and The Riddler) - but those elements get completely overshadowed by how dramattcally and drastically different the rest of the film's tone is.

    BTW, the only reason I suggested going with Duchovney, the original choice to replace Kilmer, is because he is the same type of actor as Keaton and Kilmer, but Clooney could have been okay in the role if the script's tone had been different. It would have still have been jarring to go from Keaton and Kilmer to him (Clooney), but it wouldn't have been AS jarring.
     
    #532
  8. Cain

    Cain I Heart Amazons

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    Good point. BF is tonally all over the place while B&R despite feeling like a hard punch to the gut when I saw it at the cinema at least was consistent.
     
    #533
  9. Cain

    Cain I Heart Amazons

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    I don't know about the Poison Ivy praise. I absolutely hated Uma's performance in this. Such terrible overacting. I think Arnie's Freeze on the other hand is kinda underrated.
     
    #534
  10. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Thurman over-acts the role at all. Her intro scene does stray a little bit into overly cheesy territory, but I think that has to do more with the dialogue and the way the scene is lit than it does with her actual performance.

    To each their own, though.

    She does very much fit into the same mold as Burton's villains and Two-Face and Riddler, and, despite the cheesy aspects of it, her introductory scene does remind me, functionally, of the scene in Batman Returns where Selina confronts Max Schreck.
     
    #535
  11. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    I hope La La Land can acquire the rights to officially release Goldenthal's score.
     
    #536
  12. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Cool Rider

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    Hopefully... and surely it can't be that tricky. WB have pretty much handed them the DC licence anyway.

    I know it's a lot of regurgitated material from Forever, but I always thought his new cues were really good.
     
    #537
  13. titansupes

    titansupes Well-Known Member

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    I still want to know the answer to this.
     
    #538
  14. SHADOWBAT69

    SHADOWBAT69 outlaw

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    I hated it. Not so much the bat design, but the lack of the yellow color in it.
     
    #539
  15. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    I think the all-black bat-sign was the only thing I liked about the bat-suit.



    *********************************


    Oh, there's a difference between being a bombastic character and just overacting the hell out of everything. Both Thurman and Schwarzenegger did the latter, with the value added of being unbelievably annoying. Over-acting in this case is an understatement.
     
    #540
  16. TheDarkKnight08

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    Never thought I'd do B&R fanrt, but here ya go.

    Clooney does look good in that cowl, though.

    [​IMG]
     
    #541
  17. fimble

    fimble Member

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    For me the whole film can be summed up by Arnies line "You know what killed the dinosaurs? The ice age!"

    Like, what is that? Its not a pun, its not a joke, and it isn't a fact, seeing as the dinosaurs are widely accepted to have been wiped out by an asteroid impact. It isn't relevant to anything in the scene it is in, apart from it includes the words 'kill' and 'ice'.

    I love the film. Every shot, every line, every plotpoint is the worst artistic decision they could possibly have gone for. Batman forever is just a mediocre kind of bad: B and R is so relentlessly terrible it becomes funny again.

    Do you take Bat credit card?
     
    #542
  18. Green Goblin

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    This may be a bad movie but it's not pure awful. It's not even the worst DC film. That goes to Green Lantern.
     
    #543
  19. Rorschach2012

    Rorschach2012 I'll Cancel the Pizzas

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    I'll always love this movie. It was what got me into Batman. I was 4 when it came out, and it was seriously the perfect movie for a kid my age.

    And I agree, GL is so much worse than Batman and Robin. B&R gets a (rightfully so) bad rep, but I love it for what it meant to me when I was a kid.
     
    #544
  20. Joshua_B

    Joshua_B Well-Known Member

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    Here's my basic breakdown of the film's elements...

    The Good

    1) Getting Chris O'Donnell, Michael Gough, Pat Hingle, and Joel Schumacher all back.
    2) Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze.
    3) Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl (great chemistry with Chris)
    4) The core story being loosely adapted from "Heart of Ice".

    The Bad

    1) The film's ultra-campy tone (I mostly blame WB for this)
    2) George Clooney as Batman (he made a good Bruce, but the rest...no.)
    3) Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy (completely miscast)
    4) Bane being completely useless

    The Ugly

    1) No Val Kilmer
    2) Way too damn much neon
    3) No mention of Chase at all
    4) Piranha plants...really?!
    5) The "credit card" scene
     
    #545
  21. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    You can get what kind of movie B&R is when the "good" list are not good things.
     
    #546
  22. Naked Shia

    Naked Shia Nikkid's law

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    The batcredit card scene is nothing short of brilliant.
     
    #547
  23. Joshua_B

    Joshua_B Well-Known Member

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    It was ridiculous in every sense of the word, as was everything about Poison Ivy in that film.
     
    #548
  24. Naked Shia

    Naked Shia Nikkid's law

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    you have no soul.
     
    #549
  25. StarLord

    StarLord Boogeyman

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    If that were true then he really should have enjoyed this movie. :o
     
    #550
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