The Official Boxing Thread!!!

[Docker2.0]

We agree to disagree. Kirkland came back and dominated that fight, weak chin or not. I think JCC Jr. is ahead of Canelo as far development with kirkland extremely close to them both. Again, NONE of the guys listed above stand a chance against Sergio. It's funny all of these guys are rushing to fight PBF and Paq but noone wants to touch the #3 p4p fighter in the world.

 

[Iron_Stark]

He dominated only because Angulo punched himself out. JCC Jr and Canelo dominated their guys from the opening bell. At no point in their fights were they in trouble or looked like they were going to lose. I guarantee any other fighter with patience would've finished Kirkland.

No one including Manny and Mayweather want to even mention Sergio. Huge risk, little reward.

 

[Docker2.0]

Agree about Sergio and to a degree kirkland. Angulo did punch himself out but kirkland does have knock out power and I don't think anyone would want to stand there and trade blows with him. There's a reason he only lost one fight, and that fight just happen to be the one without his trainer against a suspect fighter.

 

[Project862006]

his chin was exposed tho a guy who was a guy with no power apparently KO'd him in 1 round with 3 knock downs

 

[Docker2.0]

That's my point! It was more of a fluke than anything! Angulo is known for his knock out power but he only knocked him down once and then got out boxed. That's what makes his only loss more puzzling, losing to a guy whose punches are softer than charmin.

 

[Assassin32]

I'm surprised some of you are so high on Chavez Jr. that you have him beating Canelo. Chavez looked excellent a couple weeks ago, but you must remember that he was in against Peter Manfredo. I've seen him fight many times over the years, and - I'm not exaggerating here - that was the first time I've ever seen Chavez look impressive.

Saul Alvarez, on the other hand, has vaporized granite-chinned Carlos Baldomir with a single hook, dispatched a high-class 154-pounder in Ryan Rhodes, and now he's walked through Kermit Cintron. Those three wins trump everything on Chavez's resume. And Canelo's only 21.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I'm surprised some of you are so high on Chavez Jr. that you have him beating Canelo. Chavez looked excellent a couple weeks ago, but you must remember that he was in against Peter Manfredo. I've seen him fight many times over the years, and - I'm not exaggerating here - that was the first time I've ever seen Chavez look impressive.

Saul Alvarez, on the other hand, has vaporized granite-chinned Carlos Baldomir with a single hook, dispatched a high-class 154-pounder in Ryan Rhodes, and now he's walked through Kermit Cintron. Those three wins trump everything on Chavez's resume. And Canelo's only 21.

This.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I'm surprised some of you are so high on Chavez Jr. that you have him beating Canelo. Chavez looked excellent a couple weeks ago, but you must remember that he was in against Peter Manfredo. I've seen him fight many times over the years, and - I'm not exaggerating here - that was the first time I've ever seen Chavez look impressive.

Saul Alvarez, on the other hand, has vaporized granite-chinned Carlos Baldomir with a single hook, dispatched a high-class 154-pounder in Ryan Rhodes, and now he's walked through Kermit Cintron. Those three wins trump everything on Chavez's resume. And Canelo's only 21.

Exactly.

Mayweather didn't to Baldomir what Canelo did.
Angulo and Sergio Martinez didn't do to Cintron what Canelo did.

Yet Canelo hasn't looked impressive? Nonsense.

 

[Docker2.0]

Most fighters are not the same after knock out losses, see Ricky Hatton. If you put Canelo in the ring with Mayweather or Sergio, I can guarantee you, they'd make him look like a joke!

 

[Iron_Stark]

I don't see what your point is, Mayweather never came close to knocking out Baldomir. Canelo laid him out flat. Martinez never dominated or knocked out Cintron. Canelo dominated him before stopping him in the 5th.

I agree about some fighters never being the same after a KO loss, Vargas, Meldrick Taylor were among some others. Kirkland is also going to get KO'd again, as soon as he fights someone good, or atleast someone with patience that won't waste his punches. His chin has already been exposed for two fights in a row.

Yeah right now they'd make him look like a joke. It'd be worse than when Trinidad fought Vargas. The kid's only 21. But in a few year's time, when Mayweather and Martinez hang em up, he'll be ruling the division.

 

[Assassin32]

Most fighters are not the same after knock out losses, see Ricky Hatton. If you put Canelo in the ring with Mayweather or Sergio, I can guarantee you, they'd make him look like a joke!

True, but Mayweather and Martinez are both in the top three of anyone with a brain's pound-for-pound list. If Canelo faces Mayweather or Martinez right now, he will lose; if Chavez faces Mayweather or Martinez right now, he will get raped.

Alvarez TKO 8 Chavez.

 

[Doc Samson]

No one including Manny and Mayweather want to even mention Sergio. Huge risk, little reward.

For some reason Sergio doesn't seem to want to mention Andre Ward, which to me, is the biggest fight possible for him. Understandably Ward still has work to do, but I don't foresee Froch being any more of a problem than Abraham was.

Of course Lou Dibella already said he thinks Martinez is too small for the Super Middleweights, but in the same breath, says he'd be interested in a fight with Froch if he somehow beats Ward lol.

 

[Assassin32]

Martinez is a little undersized, even at middleweight. The only reason he went up was the opportunity to replace Kelly Pavlik against Paul Williams, and he performed so well in that fight that he stayed. So, I hope Sergio Martinez is matched against the winner of this weekend's Cotto-Margarito rematch. Who do you guys got in that one? Unfortunately, I'm convinced that Margarito will beat that ass again.

 

[Doc Samson]

Martinez is a little undersized, even at middleweight. The only reason he went up was the opportunity to replace Kelly Pavlik against Paul Williams, and he performed so well in that fight that he stayed. So, I hope Sergio Martinez is matched against the winner of this weekend's Cotto-Margarito rematch.

I don't see the point in Martinez fighting either one of those guys, they're both a shell of themselves if you ask me, and have been for quite some time.

Besides, Ward already said he would come down to 164, the same weight Martinez (or more accurately Dibella) is willing to fight Froch at

 

[Iron_Stark]

Ward has HUGE business coming up. That Frotch fight is no gimme fight, not by a long shot.

And why mention Ward if he can make triple fighting Mayweather or Pacquiao.

 

[Doc Samson]

Ward has HUGE business coming up. That Frotch fight is no gimme fight, not by a long shot.

And why mention Ward if he can make triple fighting Mayweather or Pacquiao.

No gimme by any stretch, but I'd be shocked if he lost, put it that way. I think he's too polished, and when need be, too rough on the inside, for Froch. Froch has a tendency to throw his punches wide, especially in later rounds. If he does that with Ward, he's just going to give up points. Not that Ward is some type of big hitter mind you, but he'll be scoring easily. Not to mention he's much faster.

Also, selfishly, I think Ward would need that fight to become a bigger name himself, I think he's criminally underrated or overlooked, and I suspect that would change with that one signature win.

And you know like I know neither Pac or Mayweather will fight Martinez (nor do I think they should, at least until they fight each other)

 

[Project862006]

Lucian Bute is the real threat imo

 

[Assassin32]

I don't see the point in Martinez fighting either one of those guys, they're both a shell of themselves if you ask me, and have been for quite some time.

Besides, Ward already said he would come down to 164, the same weight Martinez (or more accurately Dibella) is willing to fight Froch at

The point would be money, and that's why one of those fights is very likely to be made. Both Margarito and Cotto are interesting, exciting fighters, and they have marquee names. Andre Ward, on the other hand, is painfully boring in the ring. I swear, I have never enjoyed watching an Andre Ward fight. I would love to see him fight Martinez, but he currently has his hands full with Carl Froch. And, if he can get past that, Lucian Bute is looming.

 

[Doc Samson]

The point would be money, and that's why one of those fights is very likely to be made. Both Margarito and Cotto are interesting, exciting fighters, and they have marquee names. Andre Ward, on the other hand, is painfully boring in the ring. I swear, I have never enjoyed watching an Andre Ward fight. I would love to see him fight Martinez, but he currently has his hands full with Carl Froch. And, if he can get past that, Lucian Bute is looming.

Ward has a lot of Bernard Hopkins in him (in a good and bad way) where the majority of his fights, at some point, disintegrate into alot of holding, inside fighting, headbutting, wrestling etc., so I can understand you not being a fan.

At the same time though, Margarito & Cotto are already, today, shot fighters if you ask me. And this is before they fight again lol. They've both been beaten half to death on a few occasions, to the point that whoever loses this fight should really consider hanging it up IMO (like that ever happens with fighters)

I don't see any reason for Martinez to engage these guys, because I really don't know how much money he's likely to make off them anyway, that he couldn't command himself. Furthermore, at this stage of Cotto/Margarito's careers, I think a fight with Ward would just be a better match

 

[Project862006]

so cotto is shot? really

he has 2 losses 1 to arguably the best p4p boxer in the world in manny

and Margarito and that win is tainted for obvious reasons

 

[Assassin32]

Ward has a lot of Bernard Hopkins in him (in a good and bad way) where the majority of his fights, at some point, disintegrate into alot of holding, inside fighting, headbutting, wrestling etc., so I can understand you not being a fan.

At the same time though, Margarito & Cotto are already, today, shot fighters if you ask me. And this is before they fight again lol. They've both been beaten half to death on a few occasions, to the point that whoever loses this fight should really consider hanging it up IMO (like that ever happens with fighters)

I don't see any reason for Martinez to engage these guys, because I really don't know how much money he's likely to make off them anyway, that he couldn't command himself. Furthermore, at this stage of Cotto/Margarito's careers, I think a fight with Ward would just be a better match

Andre Ward and Hopkins share some similarities, but at least B-Hop used to knock his opponents out whenever he should have.

To me, Margarito is the kind of fighter who will never be "shot." No matter how many beatings he takes, he'll enter every fight with confidence and bad intentions. Now that he has Roberto Garcia as his cornerman, I think he's a threat to anyone at 154.

I'm waiting until after this weekend before I judge how shot Cotto is. True, one of his two losses was to a brilliant Manny Pacquiao, and there's no real shame in that, but he took an unholy beating that night. So, both of his losses have been absolutely brutal. As a result, I feel it's a psychological hump more than a physical one with Cotto, so if he can win the Margarito rematch on Satuday, I'll think he'll be reborn as a pugilist. A true second career ala Barrera.

But... I don't think he can beat Margarito.

 

[Doc Samson]

so cotto is shot? really

he has 2 losses 1 to arguably the best p4p boxer in the world in manny

and Margarito and that win is tainted for obvious reasons

It's not about wins or losses, but the type of fighter you are and the amount of punishment you take. Margarito & Cotto both are more about fighting than boxing, and both of them have sustained a considerable amount of damage in a short period of time.

Just speaking of Cotto himself, he comes off a fight with Margarito where there's no telling if something was in his glove, sustains a nasty gash dealing with Clottey and takes punishment because of it, and then gets beaten up by Pacquiao, and there's no telling if that was a natural beating or not either. It's not like we're talking about some defensive strategist here, Cotto is more likely to block punches with his face than a glove.

To me, Margarito is the kind of fighter who will never be "shot." No matter how many beatings he takes, he'll enter every fight with confidence and bad intentions. Now that he has Roberto Garcia as his cornerman, I think he's a threat to anyone at 154.

I definitely don't know about that. He's a slower Welterweight brawler to begin with, he's never been hard to find. To me, he looked finished after Mosley got done with him. He's taken considerable punishment no doubt, and I understand he's tough as nails. But so is Holyfield lol, just because you can keep fighting doesn't always mean you should.

I'm waiting until after this weekend before I judge how shot Cotto is. True, one of his two losses was to a brilliant Manny Pacquiao, and there's no real shame in that, but he took an unholy beating that night. So, both of his losses have been absolutely brutal. As a result, I feel it's a psychological hump more than a physical one with Cotto, so if he can win the Margarito rematch on Satuday, I'll think he'll be reborn as a pugilist. A true second career ala Barrera.

We'll see, like I said Antonio's never been hard to find, and its not like Cotto is some sort of boxing technician, he's a fighter through and through as well. I anticipate another war, another gruesome fight, and hopefully, the end of the road for at least one of them...

 

[Iron_Stark]

Lucian Bute is the real threat imo

Yeah, the real champ at 168 is Bute. Frotch nor Ward should be considered the champ at that weight until the winner of that fight beats Bute.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Tonight I have Margs over Cotto in 12 via TKO and Mares over Ogbeko in 12 via UD.

 

[Docker2.0]

I have Cotto winning in 7.