Discussion in 'DC Comics Films' started by Thread Manager, Mar 16, 2012.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]347675[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]288203[/split]
I'd go for either Captain Cold or Mob Rule.
Cold. If not him then Mirror Master or Weather Wizard. The latter, especially, can produce a citywide or global threat on his own.
For some reason i think that cold should be reserved for a sequel, do you think that there is a villain that could tie with Flash's origin?
Zoom, The Top, Doctor Alchemy/Mister Element, Abra Kadabra. Any of these guys can be worked in with Flash's origin. Especially Doctor Alchemy since chemistry is his deal and chemistry already plays a heavy part in Flash's origin. Plus with Barry being a CSI Doctor Alchemy would make for some pretty crazy crimes and situations.
Eh, I'm not a huge fan of the "reinvent classic Rogues as superhumans." I actually like the idea of Keystone City being a "City of Mad Science", with the Rogues being scientist-criminals out not for money so much as prestige.
I just don't think you can use most of them as the main villain for the Flash, and expect the GA to take it seriously.
As for why I say the Trickster is valid, its because cleverness and intelligence can be a credible way to challenge the Flash. All the speed in the world doesn't matter if you don't know what to look for, for instance.
My own hypothetical first movie plot goes something like this:
-Keystone City is overrun by science criminals, the police are helpless
-Forensic investigator Barry Allen has a science accident that gives him superhuman speed
-With some bumpiness, the Flash thwarts various Rogues in their crimes, albeit isn't quite able to keep them from escaping
-Bitter, the Rogues are gathered by a mysterious criminal calling himself the Trickster, who offers them a plan to work together and take down the Flash
-Said plan almost works, but through cleverness as well as speed, the Scarlet Speedster manages to defeat them all, and this time, they are captured, their hideouts found, their equipment confiscated
-. . .which was the Trickster's plan all along, as he had infiltrated the police department. All the confiscated tech and schematics? Stolen. And now the Flash has to defeat the Trickster, who could never have invented half these devices, but is deviously clever in how to apply them to take down the Flash. . .
''Super-science'' is something you have to develop, in my opinion. And it'd take much time to introduce and explain it all. Besides, I just can't take the Trickster seriously as the movie's main villain. He uses exploding rubber chickens as weapons.
Well, the Joker uses kooky stuff as weapons too.
What if the origin film has one villain, and nothing else beside that. Then in the sequel we find out that "villain 1" was working for an organization and not anything close to a leader.
Two bad guys works together in the second film, each more dangerous than the first one.
In the third film The Flash must face the boss himself, and that will be the hardest one to fight down.
What villain(s) to appear in which film? Just choose the most well-known from the gallery of bad guys: Trickster, Mirror Master, Gorilla Grodd, Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, Captain Boomerang, Heat Wave, Zoom.
Think of it as a Rogues Trilogy
Actually the Rogues can be worked in as criminals receiving tech from a common benefactor. Maybe this guy offers his services to people who need it. The Trickster can be reworked that way. A technological genius who offers his services to anyone with the cash. His nephew can be the more traditional Trickster later with Cold as the leader and the younger Trickster being the snot nosed brat that wants to run things his way like his uncle did.
Flash is using his powers to stop these guys and finds that the common link is the tech. Not sure if this is too big of a story for a first movie, though. This could be a sequel thing. I can see it working with these villains and their tech running amuck before Barry gets his powers, though, so maybe it can work that way.
I feel like The Flash's universe on film has to be a world that is somewhat pulpy. Either you go with it or you don't, and best comparison would be Incredibles.
Exactly. That's the exact approach that should be taken. This definitely cannot be a Christopher Nolan type of series.
You have to create a reality where a dude like Captain Cold is both absurd but acceptable, in a meta kinda of a way.
I don't think going ''meta'' is necessary. The Rogues are not more riddiculous than Spider-Man's enemies, by example, and his movies managed to use them without highlighting the absurdity of their existences. I do believe the Flash needs to be more lighthearted than Christopher Nolan's movies, but it doesn't need to be Dick Tracy.
Well, the difference between Flash and Spidey's villains are (and yeah, they are cut from the same cloth) Flash's Rogues are intended to be 'blue collar' or 'second rate'. So you need that certain self awareness that make them work without constantly winking at the camera or being too self deprecating.
Also, Spidey's villains are more well known and super powered while the Rogues (most anyway) are not. So a novice reader has to read the comics to 'get' them. And I've seen some ignorant people bashing or being dismissive Flash's rogues when they're probably the most entertaining and complex group of characters in comics.
I actually think Iron Man has a weaker set of interesting villains than Flash and it wasn't until recently, they have been trying to build up his rogue catalog.
The Spider-man movies are good examples. My only issue with the rogues are most of their names. They'd be pretty hard to use. Their real names sure but Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Weather Wizard and all of those types are somehow sillier than a name like Green Goblin to me. Green Goblin is clearly insane. These are perfectly sane dudes going by these names and the newspaper excuse can't always work like with Spider-man. I think Doc Ock was called Doctor Octopus once in that entire movie...And referred to as Doc Ock maybe twice and it was the same scene.
They are sillier, and they are pulpier. Mirror Master is a character you just cannot do realistic or explain without being over-the-top.
But let's say the Rogues have their first meeting, and they acknowledge their absurdity without (again) winking at the camera, I think it can work. Hell, give them name tags. The goal is to show these guys that they are not some losers, so they can have a collective character arc to prove that they're a real threat to Flash.
But I also feel like they need a mastermind behind all of this, maybe being Grodd or Zoom. Then you can also make Captain Cold the guy who doesn't trust the guy in charge, adding another layer of complexity (and moral code) to his character.
I can see Zoom being revealed to be the guy who supplies The Rogues with tech from the future.
That would be awesome.
I do admit, my plot idea has weaknesses. Its partly an exercise in making a Rogues-oriented plot that works without an excess of PIS, to be honest. Its just, I'd rather not go with the cheap route of "First villain is also a speedster."
And how about my idea?
The Bond films Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace were connected this way.
And From Russia with Love shared a couple of things with Dr No.
I posted a while back my ideas for the villians in the three movies. I still think it holds up pretty well once you add in Iris, Wally and the rest.
1 - Flash gets powers, takes down Mr Element with ease. But he comes back later in the movie as a bigger threat as Alchemy. Flash takes him down
2 - Cold for the entire film. With cameo's from Boomerang and the other rouges near the start. Barry marries Iris. Zoom revealed at the end.
3 - Just Zoom. Wally gets powers.
That allows for you to possibly kill off Barry in the 3rd one or the start of the 4th and have Wally become Flash for a new trilogy.
My only problem with that is the lack of The Rogues as a group. Working together is usually the reason that they're a real threat. Captain Cold, Mirror Master and the like have rarely held story arcs together on their own and it's not hard to see why when their entire motivation consists of "Steal money, get rich." As a group is when they decide to be proactive and take Flash out of the equation because he causes headaches for them all.
That's something I'd like to see in a superhero movie. Villains are always after something personal or they're sympathetic and looking for a cure or something. I'd actually like to see them go after the hero and set traps.
One of The Rogues holding a story on his own is just strange to me now. I'm so used to them teaming up.
Dr. Alchemy and Captain Boomerang.
I don't think you can do the Rogues in an origin movie because they need so much buy in. It needs an Incredibles flavor, as mentioned, but when you do that Incredibles tone in live action you get Scott Pilgrim. Great movies that the general audience 'doesn't get.'
You also can't do the Rogues in an origin film because you have personalities to establish, and you're in the middle of establishing a world, powerset and main character that's supposed to be engrossing for the audience. Take too much time away from that to develop your villains and you have a Green Lantern.
Dr. Alchemy as a science chemistry guy who has a friendship with Barry in the comics slides right into the origin quite nicely. We know CSI's don't have tons of weird chemicals, but cutting edge scientists do. Cue lightning.
Captain Boomerang not only requires no real explanation scientifically, but he makes for a pretty cool CSI case, and he can actually challenge the Flash, provided he has enough boomerangs.
I do like the idea of Zoom being behind the ubertech though. For the second movie villain, do a whole squad: Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Weather Wizard, Golden Glider and Pied Piper. Except Golden Glider isn't useless. Then end it off with Zoom, y'know?