Discussion in 'Cybertron' started by blind_fury, Feb 1, 2007.
Beast Wars cherry picked from both show and comic. I don't think it was equally though.
I loved G1 as a child, and still do. The storyline was well-crafted and a lot more than the "kiddy show made for selling toys" that some clods have come to call it. The second wave never really hit it off for me, and I resented how they resorted to using Prime again after his great death in the film just to avoid putting effort into Rodimus. Overall, my fondest memories are in the series' first half. The Cybertronians seemed more like futuristic colonists rather than random tin thrown together spouting the usual emotionless robotic gibberish in the sci-fi realm, and the Autobot/ Decepticon factions worked well in showing the universal natures of human concepts like "good" and "evil". For me, the film was the swansong. I'm also a huge fan of Beast Wars- just thought I'd mention that, considering the current spat over it. I liked how it respected the concepts of humanity and escapism that G1 offered. The last season was weak, but at one point in my fandom I did indeed feel that G1 and Beast Wars were equal in quality. 'Transmutate' sealed the deal for me.
And that's me. I guess I'm what you call a 'purist' in that I enjoyed the G1 line a lot more than the continuations and, dare I say, bastardizations (Beast Machines, Armada and that film they're calling Transformers). But I've waited before and can wait again for a rebirth...'til all are one, I suppose.
Beast Wars pretty much disregarded the whole "Call of the Primatives" episode and some of Five Faces of Darkness in lue of Simon Furman's origin (it seems, although they never outrightly said the origin).
I gotta disagree with Chibi, while I love G1 cartoon, and admit it had many good episodes. It was, in effect, a massive toy commercial.
The cartoon is memorable because it had great characters and a derivative premise (written for the comics). But it often had little plot development, no rhyme or reason for characters coming and going, poor dialogue and animation and sometimes became very very redundant.
The comic tended to use characters and let them be characters, not characters selling toys. Certain popular items, like Metroplex, never played much of a role. And often the storyline would write out certain characters and play up often obscure ones in there absence.
I think alot of you have good points. Yes the show was produced to sell toys , but , it was so well conceived it became something 'more' to many of us, and still is I'd say. Like Star Trek it was a huge sci fi hit that has stood the test of time because it had great characters in stories that were exciting and new while teaching a moral, good stuff. But being honest , like Star Trek , not every episode was a winner, some were pretty weak. BUT the characters were well thought out and likeable, especially the villains. Like comics they got it right by creating the coolest array of villains ever. Megatron, Shockwave, Starscream,Soundwave, even the cassettes were fun to watch and listen too. And personally while I think BW was a good pretender of the original, everything after was predictable and watered down, lacking all the good qualities that made the original great. Reusing or rehashing established storylines and character names is a sloppy, lazy and pathetic way to make a new tv show, comic, or movie, all the same reasons I hate Ultimate Marvel continuity. An insult to the audience . You'd think they'd try harder to woo the hand that feeds them.
i have no proble with beast wars but to me like many others in this thread g1 is the REALtransformers
autobots TRANSFORM AND ROLL OUT
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say Well-conceived, because frankly it wasn't. It was very inconsistent, but oddly enough this turned out to be an asset as the shows abundance of inconsistencies led to the writers of Beast Wars/Beast Machines stringing them together into something meaningful. I mean Vector Sigma, the Ark (oddly enough the "Ark" was the term used in the comic, not the show), Cybertron, Alpha Trion, the Plasma Energy chamber, the Matrix, etc. All of these things often stepped on each other's toes in the show, creating a mish-mash of largely unrelated plot elements. So the show was poorly handled, but in the imagination of children it did spark some sort of creative energy. I mean none of us really know how a race like the Transformers could have come to be, but these little plot devices that were used in the episodes, retooled, actually could and did become fodder for Sci-Fi/Fantasy that was much more grounded and well told.
So really, I think what the show did was give a veritable buffet for future writers to pull from. Not everything made sense initially, but when certainly elements were reused and plotted out a little better you could get something that was more than just a toy commercial. It's a pity the original show itself struggled and really never succeeded in capitalizing on this in ways others shows had.
Ok, here they are:
BW animated shows > Original G1 animated shows
# of G1 derivative shows > # of BW derivative shows
G1 comics > BW comics
G1 toys sold > BW toys sold
G1 movie ? ......
G1 legs > BW legs
What G1 doesn't have is an initial good show, everything else it has BW beaten. Better name for characters (Starscream > Waspinator all the time), characters that are expandable to comics, more cult-like characters (Soundwave, Grimlock and Sideswipe, to name a few), and non fans people would get excited more on robots transforming to vehicles. That's why no sane people would pick BW as a material for live action movie.
Again no diss on the Beast Wars show. It was wonderful for its time. G1 shows were actually poor compared to BW. But if there's a new animated show choosing whether its based on largely Vehicular character and beasts, most producers will choose the first option. G1 has BW beaten by a sackful of reasons other than the quality of the original shows.
Don't know what you're doing your basis of comparison on, but factually all those are wrong. Beast Wars outsold Transformers. Also in terms of "derivative" episodes, I mean that's pretty much every episode of Beast Wars, whereas it's about half of season 3 in G1. And as for Beast Wars animated shows, there were four (Beast Wars, Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, and Beast Machines), G1 had 5 (Generation 1 original, Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory and Zone, plus the spinoff movie Scramble City, TFTM (86), and (unproduced) Return of Convoy).
Ummmm, actually every show since Beast Wars has used a combination of Beasts and Vehicles (except Armada) and furthermore Beast Wars voice actors thus far have been recast in every show to reprise similar roles (whereas G1, not so much). Current character incarnations have all been based on the Beast Wars formula (5 or 6 good robots, versus 5 or 6 bad robots). The only thing from G1 that currently has been popping up in current continuities is the reuse of Starscream as Megatron's second in command. Other than that (and a few cameos here and there), we don't get a whole lot of G1 influence these days in shows.
I'm a all kind of Transformers fan, not just G1
You guys are free to make Beast War purist thread.
There you can talk how much better talking rats and cheetahs are than Starscream and Optimus Prime.
But this thread is to celebrate all things G1, not for attacking G1 fans/comics/cartoons.
I'm pretty exact to say that the toys sold by G1 (from 1984-2007) is more than toys sold by BW. Try to dispute this, and then you can say factually they're wrong.
Beast Wars I is the same as Beast Wars II. Heck, you don't dispute my points anyway.
You mean since BM? I don't recall any BW Transformers except for "guest character" that have vehicle mode.
G1 actually uses a combination of beasts and vehicles. It predates BM.
Don't care. Non sequitur. Whatever. Adds nothing to the discussion.
-It's TF lore, not TF voice actors life-
Point exists that Peter Cullen or Frank Welker is more of a legend to TF fans than Scott McNeill.
It's budgetary restrictions. It maybe the best to convey a more simplistic but focused storytelling.
But tell me, is it a monopoly of BW to have a smaller cast, and G1 must always have a large cast of robots?
Please don't kid yourself.
Transformers Armada/Cybertron/Energon is based loosely on G1.
TF movie is based on G1. Is that not big enough for you?
BTW, I don't believe/post myself as a G1 purist. G1 maybe the best to convey the world of TF to the mainstream than BW, who stuck their robots only in beast forms. BM, on the other hand, is an abomination. Rat in a wheel?
I am so G1- I'm almost of the mind NOT to Include R.C., Springer and Kup in G1...
But they held down Autobot city w/ Devistator outside, so there's there lifetime exemption.
Mannn 1985 baby!!
Matter of fact I'm going to see the new movie w/ the same crew I saw the first Transformers movie w/. (I'm trying to get them to leave the wifes at home )
haha! Good point.
This cover is in my TOP 15 ALL TIME Favorite comic Covers- When I was like 8 it was sooo out there to see this language relating to the toy series right during the middle of the first run. I remember thinkin, Shockwave has this kind of disdain for the Autobots he reverts to Graf...AWESOME!!!
One of my first comics ever toot: t:
at the risk of sounding like DYNOMUTT DOG WONDER maybe you got something there b.f.a beast wars purist thread would be perfect
There's one already called "The official BW thread". It's just the title is not as fanboy inducing as "G1 purist"
Beast Wars is part of G1. The best part.
If it's the best part, then the movie should be based on it. Guess what sunshine, there are no Maximals or Predacons in the movie. Michael Bay and Steven Spielberg like Bumblebee more than Rattrap.
The movie isn't based on G1. It's a synthesis of the whole of TF's. After all movie Scorponok is in now way based on G1 Scorponok (that honour falls to the Energon version). He's based on Beast Wars Scorponok.
It's based on G1. Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Mission City, Sam Witwicky, Bumblebee, Frenzy - heck all the chars except for Scorponok (which we don't see its robot form).
When you have 85-90% of the stuff based on G1, it's based on G1.
No Ironhide though damn 10%!
Lol, yeah it is.