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Discussion in 'Gotham' started by The Caped Knight, Aug 9, 2016.
You mean an awesome movie. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
I like what she's done with the character. I'm enjoying her scenes.
I do like the "she's a 14-year old trapped in a woman's body" scenario she has going. I think she's believable in that part.
She hasn't done anything, though. Thus far Pamela has been portrayed as one-dimensional and moronic. The total opposite of the comics.
I never read comics so I don't know what Pamela Isley is like but I think everything Ivy Pepper has done so far is totally fine. Maggie Geha isn't a great actress but except Batcat, Penguin, Nygma and now Barbara, the rest of the cast have never been great either.
Well, I have read the comics, which is where these characters come from and why this show exists in the first place. And yeah, this show isn't renowned for having spectacular performances but Maggie Geha is the worst of the worst.
What's she done so far? Wander around aimlessly, kill people that have no relevance to the plot (or even Pamela), steal from the wrong people and then be stupid enough to go out and get kidnapped.
Lame. Lame. Lame.
Maybe that's the difference between a CB fan and the rest of the audience. Gotham has never been NOT lame so I won't start complaining about it being lame now. Anyway I've been generally liking everything this season so far and certainly others can have different opinions, which is totally fine.
Your opinion is your opinion and that's fine. I just want better from an iconic character that is supposed to be one of Batman's deadliest enemies but is being portrayed as a bonehead with no knowledge of seemingly anything.
Maybe Ivy gets smarter when she gets older. Right now she is a 14 year old trapped in an adult's body. She has a few years to go before Bruce is old enough to become Batman.
I don't know if it's "renowned" for it as most reviewers take a dump on the show to try to be cool, but it does have spectacular performances. Penguin, Riddler, Selina and yes, Bruce Wayne, are the best versions ever seen on screen. Everyone took it as hyperbole, but Bruno Heller was dead on when saying that "David Mazouz is the best actor to portray Bruce Wayne ever."
^ Wait, what? So you're saying that Camren is a better actor than Michelle Pfeiffer and David is a better actor than Michael Keaton, Christian Bale AND Ben Affleck?
Don't get me wrong, Bruce and Selena have been handled rather well, but their performances are nowhere near being the definitive versions of the character.
I like the show, I do, but characterization is not a strong suit of the show, as Poison Ivy has showcased. Riddler started off good but now they've turned him into an idiot and Penguin? I'm not even going to speak on that mess.
Not exactly. I'd say Camren is probably about as good in the role as Michelle - we'll see how she'll turn out later to judge her overall as an actress - but she's better physically and better cast, and I say David is superior to all the people you mentioned.
The only actor that can hold a candle to David among the Batman ones is Clooney, but he was given a most thankless role. David conveys more emotion with an eyebrow than Ben can muster in five sentences.
Oscars? I know Bale is well-liked. I know he's cast in major movies. I also recognize he is a capable actor. But David is an absolute prodigy.
I made things unnecessarily complicated by actually going into "actor versus actor" comparisons when my post was originally meant to talk about the characters as realized on screen - though I do very much stand by my viewpoint on the actors too. Michael Keaton, Christian Bale and Ben Affleck all made worse Bruce Waynes than David Mazouz, though it's the nature of the beast that a:> he's not Batman, b:> it's a different time period and c:> David's age naturally limits what he can and can't do, which the show has taken into consideration admirably.
Bruce Wayne on Gotham is the most nuanced, layered and well-acted Bruce Wayne ever seen. It's actually not a total surprise for me because this is a television series where people have a lot of time to get the feel for the role. Television is outgrowing the movie medium. It's the same as how there will probably never be a Lex better than Rosenbaum.
I disagree utterly with the notion that Eddie is "stupid" or that Ozzie is a "mess" for being gay. These characters were perfectly cast. Their character development has made sense and has not stepped on any important toes with regards to comic canon either. And I haven't even gotten into the great casting for Alfred and Lucius, among others.
New Ivy is a disaster. I've said so many times. I'm making no excuses for that horrid debacle.
Camren, thus far, while showing potential, has not done anything that was as enigmatic, eye popping or intriguing as anything Michelle did in BR.
And the fact that you just said Clooney's Batman is the only one that can "hold a candle" to David means this conversation is now over. Keaton, Bale and Affleck all perfectly embodied the character and are each considered by many fans to be the definitive version...and you choose Clooney, one of the worst portrayals of Batman ever. So bad that he gives money to people who paid to see B&R in theaters.
If you seriously believe David is a better actor than Keaton, Affleck and Bale, all of whom have won endless awards, you lack serious knowledge as to the artistry of acting.
Like I said, I'm done. Based on that Clooney comment, this is my last post ever in this thread. I just can't---WOW.
oddly enough I think the actual 14 y.o. actress played the character more maturely
she seems to have actually gotten more child like since aging
It is funny, because it is like you are describing Bale's career, but with a much worse actor. You do realize Bale was working nuance roles, with big time directors as a kid right? He has bee nominated for 3 Academy Awards and won one. He is not simply well liked.
Keaton is a great and well respected actor, also nominated for Academy Awards and many believe he should have at least one.
Ben isn't my favorite but he has proven himself thoroughly over the last decade in Academy Award winning and nominated films.
So we have two actors who are legitimately two of the best of their generation and another very capable one. Compared to a kid on a horrendously written show, who while is okay when being "cute", isn't exactly Saoirse Ronan in "Atonement" or Bale in "Empire of the Sun" here.
I said Clooney as an actor. I also said he was given a thankless role. If he'd been given "Batman Returns" he'd done a much better job. You're taking a cheap shot and it devalues your argument.
Yes, I do. I also think that Aden Young is a better actor than Keaton and Affleck at similar stage, and he hasn't won any awards. "Countless awards" often are about being at the right time in the right place.
Please note that I am judging their standard of acting in their Batman movies - Keaton has improved significantly over later years. If you want me to name a living, acting person who's won a few awards and thus is considered "respectable" to like - because clearly, that is very important to you - I think Jeremy Irons outranks all of them.
It's not my fault if you can't recognize that kid is a marvel.
Or maybe you are seeing something you hope is there and others just don't find him nearly as talented as you do because he isn't? Odd monotone delivery doesn't really do it for me. That is the beauty of opinion.
It's not a monotone. It's a restrained shift, using very subtle deviations in expression going from "just a normal kid" to something far more ominious, and even slightly insane. This is something he learned on his run with Touch, where he spent two seasons not saying a single word on the show. That was an excellent acting school for him and he's ever evolving. Saying "he's just alright when he's cute" shows a profound misunderstanding of his character work. If you want more, check his voice change as Five gradually mimicking Bruce.
If this is really a matter of "opinion", as you say it, why would you chastise mine in this rude manner? Talking about "horrendous writing" on the show in the Gotham forum, when the important dialog is almost always on point? I speak plainly and I am certainly within my right to voice my appraise of these actors.
Do you people think you've seen more "haute couture" movies than me? Do you think you're more educated than me? If we're going down the ad hominem route, as Hulk was wanton to do.
While David is fine for the role, calling him a prodigy or marvel is stretching the truth out way, way to far.
I disagree, and so does the entire Gotham cast, as well as their writers. The Bruce role was to be very minor, and it was expanded immensely as they found they had a gold mine in him. The amount of sincere praise they've heaped on his acting talent is out of this world.
Quite frankly I consider them better judges than most people on these fora. Most probably better judges than me. And no, it's not "just promotion" either. Other people in the cast get lots of great comments from their peers but when you hear Robin talk about David he's awestruck.
Nah, its monotone.
You are perceiving this as rude perhaps because you feel the need to defend this so vigorously. Yeah, I find the Gotham writing horrendous outside of Oswald and Edward these days. They are so far out there, they are enjoyable. I find the rest so bad, I started tuning out and decided to just try and catch the compilations on YT.
I honestly don't know or care what you watch. I know how I feel about this. I also think it is pretty clear when an outlandish statement is being made when comparing a kid on an elsewhere style Not-Batman show, and two of the finest living actors, who were iconic in the role, and another very good one who has received praise even from those that find his first film as the character... well not great.
I am curious though, if there is so much skill there and it is so apparent, why hasn't he been nominated for an Emmy or Golden Globe yet?
However, I do not do so out of a "don't pee on my rug" sense of duty. I am readily available to criticize the flaws of the show, which are numerous. If you'd read my reviews you would know this to be true. In fact you only need to look at my posts here.
Because he hasn't starred in a critically acclaimed, well known and kosher show yet. As for movie awards he hasn't starred in a good movie either. So far he has only received one nomination. That's simple to answer.
Aden Young has been active for two decades and only got one single award for what was far from his finest work. He's still more than a match for any of the names you have named. Again - right place at the right time. Some get there. Some don't.
Don't worry, if David ever lands a role in a major movie he'll at least be nominated for an Oscar.
Dude, I'm a filmmaker. Know what that means? Films are my life, it's my business to know superb acting, great acting, good acting and mediocre. David falls in between the last two.
The fact you believe him to be some God doesn't change that. He's not better than Bale, Keaton or Affleck and that's an unmitigated fact.
The latter alone has had what...two hits so far this year? And the one movie David starred in flopped. But I already know you'll make up some excuse as to why it was a failure.
Again, the kid has talent but he's no marvel and no prodigy. Mostly monotone acting and sounding like you're confused all the time does not make you a prodigy. Starring in failed projects does not make you a marvel. Because if you are that good, you would be offered more worthwhile projects that showcase your talent. Or you'd at least stand out in the projects you're in even if they are mediocre. The only actor that's really stood out from this show was Cameron Monaghan. How do we know this? Ratings plummeted as soon as he got killed.
Watch Patty McCormack in The Bad Seed. Or Chloe Moretz in Let Me In. Or Isabelle Fuhrman in Orphan. Or how about Macaulay Culkin in The Good Son. Those are phenomenal portrayals from young actors/actresses. David is not on that level at all.
Now I'm done forreal. Adios.