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Discussion in 'Marvel's The Avengers' started by Spider-Fan, Apr 14, 2012.
Not a chance....You sure now?
I will concede that aliens are often the strongest threat one can possibly present in a work of fiction. And in The Avengers, Earth was not only attacked by aliens but a God, too.
But aliens, unlike Gods, are not that interesting. Did you notice how generic they were? You give them sharp fangs, animal noises and rinse, wash, repeat.
Loki, however, is an Earth-based threat. His significance emerges from his place in the human psyche. He is the God of mischief, like Set and Satan, he represents a force of chaos and disorder for humans.
He means a lot to us, we can relate to him, he has a history, a story.
Unlike generic creatures with fangs and tentacles, he is genuinely interesting. Capable of both evil and moments of genuine pathos. Aliens don't fill me with any emotions as a viewer, they only serve to try and diminish the importance of the human characters.
Now, if Loki had arrived with a smaller force it may have been a bit more interesting. Imagine if he was using other Gods as his invasion force. Characters like Mephisto, for instance. Long established in the Marvel universe who are rich, intriguing characters.
But the aliens were certainly not intriguing. And, to be frank, I would rather see more moments of Loki than seeing the Avengers fight off hundreds of indentical, trite little beasts.
What happened to Loki's personality? Even after everything he did in Thor, he still loved his father and brother. So why was he so cold hearted? I would have at least liked a hint or two of his good side to give him some balance.
But, again, don't take that as a criticism of Hiddleston. In my view he had the best scene in the whole movie, with [BLACKOUT]Black Widow[/BLACKOUT].
Given what happened at the end of Thor, with Loki doing what he did to prove to his father and his brother that he was an equal and effectively being rejected ("No, Loki."), he has become bitter and resentful. Loki has a very boyish quality to him...very similar to Thor's arc in the first film, he is a boy trying to prove himself a man. You can see it in Thor when he is full of himself and gloating, and when Odin shows up he immediately reverts to this child-like innocence ("I could have done it father. For you. For all of us!") You can even hear the choke of desperation in his voice. He is very much the same in Avengers, only this time he's like a child who is going to punish others because he didn't get what he wanted. ("If I can't be King of Asgard, I will be King of Midgard."[loosely quoted])
The 20 year wait was worth itI was 8 when I first read an Avengers comic,and have been waiting patiently.10 out of Ten.Beats any comic book film out there right now.
If you consider comic characters part of modern mythology (as I do), then these aliens are no less valid.
But beyond the technicalities, I still don't understand your beef. How are a thousand aliens different than a thousand Spartan warriors, or a thousand uniformed WWII infantry? They're not. I think what you're problem boils down has less to do with the alien part of the army and more with the use of an army at all.
I'm not going to go into detail in the sense of scenes, but I loved the movie, I thought it's balance was perfect, it paced it's action, humour and character moments beautifully.
As origin movies go I think it's one of the best, the way each character was introduced and portrayed was spot on and never dragged, I also felt the way they peppered in the action during the early part of the movie was very organic. Then the huge second and third acts rose to the type of heights you hope for from such a great set up.
Humour in these types of films can be difficult but I though Whedon gauged it well and the various one liners were a nice throwback to the days when a blockbuster was allowed to be fun, but knew the difference between fun and frat boy humour.
All the character relationships were really nicely captured I felt, I especially enjoyed Tony and Banner and Tony and Cap. The two hero vs hero fights in the movie were also as good as hoped and the big scene where all the characters have a big argument over each others flaws is fantastic.
The action is stunning, the movie has the aforementioned hero battles but also has two colossal set pieces that are very different but in my view equally as good, the Helicarrier sequence showcases everything from in fighting to heroism to hope to despair. The NYC battle is just a heart-stopping and at time funny beat perfect 30 minute money shot bonanza!
This is as big of a fun ride at the cinema as I've had, just pure entertainment with spectacle, heart and humour. 10/10
But still aliens, still a boring, cop-out army without any depth. Just mindless beasts with no redeeming characteristics at all.
Big fangs, slimy skin, no originality whatsoever.
The difference between an alien and a Spartan is obvious, the Spartan can be written as having some human characteristics. Likewise, mythical deities are often used to tackle very human dilemmas such as the search for validation and the nature of love and sacrifice.
Alien characters are just written to come down here and embarrass the humans. They're always so powerful, so advanced, they seem to be written by people who have an inherent dislike of humanity.
And that's one of the main reasons it irks me so much.
GREAT review! Thanks!
Well they can't hate humanity too much seeing as how these alien armies never get the job done. And really, any race that has the technology to find Earth will likely think of us as ants.
I've had to use alien armies in stories before and to break the mold of the faceless, generic horde, I've tried to give them at least some individuality. You can't spend too much time on them, of course, but little things like not having them all the same size, shape, etc. go a long way. So does something like showing them try to help one of their fallen or reacting when one gets killed.
Unfortunately, when you're dealing with global threats, you have to use things that can threaten globally, and armies are the best way to do that. Unless you're Galactus, I guess.
Wow, is honestly the only word I can think of to describe this movie, I had a huge smile on my face throughout the movie, but that smile became a silly childish laugh whenever Hulk was on screen, he was simply sublime. I like all the characters but Hulk is my fave out of this group and he was simply amazing.
Thats not taking away from others though, Thor was great as well, Cap took it up a notch from TFA, and Iron Man was both amazing and funny, RDJ just kills it again. Fury, Coulson, Hawkeye and Widow were the characters I was least looking forward too, but they were all great as well, the whole thing was just amazing, I cannot describe it any other way. Any movie better than The Avengers this year my just well be one of the best movie ever, this was just pure entertainment on every-level, as a Firefly+Serenity fan, I knew Whedon would deliver, but he did more than that, wow, 10/10.
All of the fights and action were amazing, totally delivered again.
Good for you. I'm looking forward to seeing this tomorrow. How was the crowd?
OK, just saw it!
Really there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. I have minor nitpicks that are truly insignificant; mainly some things I wanted to see I never did, but I know that JW never read my mind so I don't expect everything in my head to be onscreen.
There was sooooo much to take in that my mind is still reeling.
Going back tonight in i-MAX with some friends.
At this point it's a 9.5/10 for me (voted 10 on the chart) but I suspect it will actually go up on sequential viewings (11/10???). We'll see tonight.
Sorry, another double.
Crowd seemed a bit subdued at times, which isnt unusual for the UK, but at the end everyone was buzzing, which is unusual for here. Absolutely packed for a mid-afternoon showing as well.
I'm sure you will enjoy it.
????? More acceptable cause their kind visited primitive humans and they begin worshipping and referring to them as Gods? It's been set up in the movie verse that Asgardians are Aliens. If the Skrulls showed up a thousand years ago they would get the same reaction from humans in the past.
Awesome review right there,Can't wait to see the midnight show tomorrow night!!
Great review, HR! I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Will you go back to see it a second or third time?
Hey ronny, I'd love to see your opinions on the mega-boring trailer for The Dark Knight Rises.
Bane going "I'm Gotham's rrrump arrrhum", Tommy Solomon making faces, artsy slomo, not enough Batmanning, is this the movie supposed to beat The Avengers in the box office? Meesa don't think so.
I'm kiddin' fella, ease up.
With all do respect to the mods, some people really dont seem to understand, and therefore follow through on directions in regards to spoilers. I came into this thread anticipating well thought out, WELL EXECUTED reviews of the movie. Nothing is definitive, beause I havent seen the movie. But I think the scene I was most looking forward to was spoiled, judging by what I have been given to go by anyway. I dont know if there is a way to "crackdown", but if there is, that would be nice. Some people are just being very irresponsible with their language regarding detail. For all I know, Avengers 2 will be about Tyr leading an army of Skrulls against Surturs army of Kree, and the Avengers have to stop them from wiping each other out. Only Ive been led heavily (possibly spoiled) to believe otherwise.
Er, no, it's not even close. In fact, nobody knows yet what A2 is about.
That's not what he's saying.
I know, I know, just trying to lighten up things here. Have some
cookies, it's chocolate, tasty.
For argument's sake and just to have a fun debate, let's say that since you dislike alien invasion movies, because you had seen so many in the past and sick of the cliche therefore diluted by that level of exposure, and that you saw the aliens in this movie for the first time, would your enjoyment of The Avengers increase or decrease, never mind the threat they actually posed?
I'd like to hear your suggestions for a more earth-based threat and how it might have salvaged the movie for you in ways that aliens couldn't. I'm simply curious.
Oh, by the way, in light of the coming film Prometheus, I wonder if you simply take issue with the fact that there were generic aliens invading Earth - generic and invading being the operative words - as opposed to the former, when much of the film revolve around the discovery of an ancient alien race in space. Is it the not the presence of aliens as much as their function and attitude towards them then, eg the Asgardians are technically aliens in your own words but the mythologising aspect sets them apart from mere category? Furthermore, I don't know if you've seen Thor, but Thor's friends are individuals themselves but do you think they were productive to the plot? It's just my opinion but for some reason I felt they were not memorable enough. They're fairly strong fighters, but not that strong.