The Dark Knight Rises The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

[Legion]

Well it can be assumed MANY rich people died during Bane's takeover.

Yea...why are people making it sound strange that someone was killed during a tyrant's violent take over of gotham? Are we to assume that everyone who was exiled or sentenced to death by ice lake were accounted for? Their bodies were all later fished up?

 

[Frodo]

Well, while I can except the arguement that he would be pressumed killed for the purposes of the film , I can agree that , that plot point is kindy reaching. Odviously during coupe's and revolutions many rich people have been executed or disappeared by fighters or secret police and they're bodies are never found , or their bodies are found in mass graves like 30 years later. In that sense ,It's not out of the realm of possibility .

Missing people are pressumed dead quite often , I.e. Jimmy Hoffa , without a body or even valid evidence a crime was committed , so its not impossible . There would be conspiracy theories and about him being alive so I don't buy that everyone would just except it , at least not in Gotham .

However, this falls into the category of suspend disbelief , its only a movie. And to be fair he was declared dead in BB without a body. Again, its one of those things in the film that could have been handled a bit better at the end imo, but it doesn't damage the film for me.

 

[the_monk]

It seems to me that a lot of people would know Bruce was Batman. For one thing, the guys working on The Bat at the end who tell Lucius that Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot should be able to make that deduction.

 

[BestGirl]

Well, while I can except the arguement that he would be pressumed killed for the purposes of the film , I can agree that , that plot point is kindy reaching. Odviously during coupe's and revolutions many rich people have been executed or disappeared by fighters or secret police and they're bodies are never found , or their bodies are found in mass graves like 30 years later. In that sense ,It's not out of the realm of possibility .

Missing people are pressumed dead quite often , I.e. Jimmy Hoffa , without a body or even valid evidence a crime was committed , so its not impossible . There would be conspiracy theories and about him being alive so I don't buy that everyone would just except it , at least not in Gotham .

However, this falls into the category of suspend disbelief , its only a movie. And to be fair he was declared dead in BB without a body. Again, its one of those things in the film that could have been handled a bit better at the end imo, but it doesn't damage the film for me.

Possibly, though Bruce was out of the public eye for almost a decade and other Gothamites nearly as rich and famous as he was undoubtedly disappeared too. The people of Gotham probably have more on their plate than speculating about what happened to an eccentric, semi-retired billionaire anyway.

 

[BestGirl]

It seems to me that a lot of people would know Bruce was Batman. For one thing, the guys working on The Bat at the end who tell Lucius that Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot should be able to make that deduction.

Interesting observation. Maybe that's why he faked his own death: to protect himself from anyone who, like Blake, came to the conclusion he was Batman.

 

[echostation]

Solid film but the main thing annoyed me was the final Bane Batman confrontation...

Close up crap choreography, I couldn't tell half the time what kind of moves were being done... THe first Bane vs Batman fight was great, clear camera shots of who was hitting who... WTF Was Nolan thinking on the second one...

Lastly, the second fight should have been CLEARLY Batman's to win and not let Catwoman save his ass. Yes he won the initial brawl but after the stabbing by Talia and with the gun pointed at him, he should have somehow pissed Bane off or distracted him, kicked him and tumble back to throw a couple of Batarangs at Bane's mask and take him down fully and we have Batman standing victorious... cue epic Batman music.

Or just have Talia as she begins to put the screws onto Bane's mask actually betray even Bane, and actually unscrews more of the hinges on the mask and leaves Bane for dead as Bane finds he is betrayed by the one he loves.. that would have been a FAR more fitting ending. Then as Talia's switch fails, she leaves and Catwoman emerges and helps Batman get to his feet and to the Bat and then cue big chase

 

[Pontillo]

After Bane took over Gotham only like 4 people saw Bruce alive again...Catwoman (she's with Bruce) Lucius (He knows to keep his mouth shut) a couple of mercs (dead or in jail) Talia (dead) So Lucius could have said that Wayne died months ago and who could prove him wrong?

 

[Pontillo]

Batman did clearly win the 2nd fight...if not for Talia, Batman probably leaves Bane to writhe in pain.

Solid film but the main thing annoyed me was the final Bane Batman confrontation...

Close up crap choreography, I couldn't tell half the time what kind of moves were being done... THe first Bane vs Batman fight was great, clear camera shots of who was hitting who... WTF Was Nolan thinking on the second one...

Lastly, the second fight should have been CLEARLY Batman's to win and not let Catwoman save his ass. Yes he won the initial brawl but after the stabbing by Talia and with the gun pointed at him, he should have somehow pissed Bane off or distracted him, kicked him and tumble back to throw a couple of Batarangs at Bane's mask and take him down fully and we have Batman standing victorious... cue epic Batman music.

Or just have Talia as she begins to put the screws onto Bane's mask actually betray even Bane, and actually unscrews more of the hinges on the mask and leaves Bane for dead as Bane finds he is betrayed by the one he loves.. that would have been a FAR more fitting ending. Then as Talia's switch fails, she leaves and Catwoman emerges and helps Batman get to his feet and to the Bat and then cue big chase

 

[echostation]

You didn't read what i wrote at all. I said Batman won the second brawl but then after Talia stabbed him, they shouldn't have had Bane stand up and ready to KILL him again... it should have ended with Batman winning, plain and simple... not being under Bane's killing hands again.

After Batman defeats Bane and gets stabbed by Talia, Talia should have betrayed Bane and not screw the hinges on his mask again but actually let Bane die, say something along the lines of "All he did was love me... but I never loved him..." then she turns to bane and says "I'm sorry, but you've fulfilled your purpose..." then actually proceed to unscrew more of the hinges in Bane's mask and leaves Bane for dead as Bane finds he is betrayed by the one he loves.. that would have been a FAR more fitting ending. The horror and anger and hurt in Bane's eyes... he was reduced physically and now emotionally.... as he sees his life drain, a fitting ending for such a terrifying villain...

Then as Talia's switch fails, she leaves and Catwoman emerges and helps Batman get to his feet and to the Bat and then cue big chase

 

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

 

[zman]

Now that I've seen it three times, I enjoyed it much more. The first time I hated it. The Bane/Talia twist was lousy. Alfred leaving (you still haven't given up on me......never, or until you're too old and cranky......... then I'll leave). Bruce taking a vacation while Gotham needs him the most was foolish.

It wasn't until talking to a coworker I realized my issues with it. I knew too much about Batman and his history. If I just took this at face value for a stand alone movie, it's fine. I'd have let Talia escape......I mean show her preggo at the LOS compound or what not. Bane should have met his end by Batman. While I thoroughly enjoyed Selina Kyle throughout, it should have been Bats to win. Have Alfred stick around till then end then they reunite on holiday.

I just don't believe Bruce would ever just leave. Sure he gave Robin a good start, but BRUCE WAYNE should have stayed to help rebuild his city. Bruce could have been the face of hope needed. "they need you....your knowledge your resources. Not your body". That could have come to play here.

All in all, a 7 out of 10. I started out hating it, but came back. I appreciate it for what it was, and look forward to the next series.

I completely agree with you. Saw it for the first time yesterday. Here's what I posted on another forum:

(with spoilers by the way, without giving the ending away).

I liked it, I just don't think I'll be seeing it again, in cinema or elsewhere, really.

This film is really more about Bruce Wayne than Batman. That is not a bad thing per say...It's just that for me the circumstances of the 2nd movie (taking the blame for the crimes of Two face) left little room for any other context than this one: Batman is rendered useless for a while, Bruce basically shuts down.

The objective of Bruce in this trilogy was to be an example for the city, and he ultimately succeeds, this is, after all, an achievable goal. In the comics, he wants to rid the city of its criminal element, which killed his parents. This objective is obviously unrealistic, causing (or allowing) Batman to undertake an endless war and become obsessed in his quest. Here, Bruce is shown to be determined, strong willed, but not obsessed. He can find peace and in the end moves on. Don't get me wrong that's all nice...its just not Batman to me. He's not THAT emotionally, heck it could be argued, mentally sane.

So the end of this film is bitter sweet for me ... it is a positive one (although I would have liked a reconciliation with Alfred... they both deserved it, their last scene even felt a little out of character just so that Alfred's earlier speech had emotional weight) Yet an important part of the story arc (through all three movies) did not represent my vision of the character and affected my appreciation of the conclusion, and to an extent of the trilogy as a whole (wich I still love).

Nolan went down the «realism route» as far as it could be taken: Bruce Wayne is a not that obsessed and is looking forward even in the second movie to being done with his mission already, he's bright but no genius either, and he relied A LOT on supporting characters to get his tools, the ears to his cowl, the gauntlets, and what not.

There's a lot about the movie I'm not addressing, both good and...less good, but having seen the movie today, that's the sentiment I'm left with: I'm thankful for three great, and in many ways different Batman movies, but there's a mild disappointment I can't deny. Hopefully the next inevitable trilogy will be «less realistic», not in terms of relying on CGI, but acknowledging that Batman is not a model of mental health, he can't really see beyond his mission and doesn't want to get married and have babies in Italy...but that's just me.

 

[Tequilla]

You didn't read what i wrote at all. I said Batman won the second brawl but then after Talia stabbed him, they shouldn't have had Bane stand up and ready to KILL him again... it should have ended with Batman winning, plain and simple... not being under Bane's killing hands again.

Actually , seeing Bane pointing a gun to Batman's head was the clearest image to show his superiority. Even Bane acknowledges it by that gesture. The whole ending of the fight was brilliant , just like the compassion Talia showed for Bane.

 

[hafizbat]

Actually , seeing Bane pointing a gun to Batman's head was the clearest image to show his superiority. Even Bane acknowledges it by that gesture. The whole ending of the fight was brilliant , just like the compassion Talia showed for Bane.

Agreed. It showed that Batman bested him fair and square, and Bane resorted to the typical villain way, by cheating with the shotgun while Bats was down.

 

[Frodo]

Possibly, though Bruce was out of the public eye for almost a decade and other Gothamites nearly as rich and famous as he was undoubtedly disappeared too. The people of Gotham probably have more on their plate than speculating about what happened to an eccentric, semi-retired billionaire anyway.

Maybe. However when someone that rich goes missing , the press and people do talk and ask questions regardless of whatever circumstances are going on in the aftermath. They may not be immediately after the crisis but eventually, people do talk and gossip. That said , I can buy the explanation for the purposes of the film.

 

[Oscorp]

So I watched this film the second time now. Much much better this time around I think, it's a huge grower! Actually, it's sharing the top place among my favourite comic book movies!

 

[Legion]

The saddest part for me is when bruce is grieving for rachel and we learn that she really chose harvey over bruce.

 

[angryweb]

Saw it for my 5th time last night. It's become my favorite one in the trilogy.

 

[X Knight]

finally saw it yesterday.

I liked it. it was good. but I don't think it was nearly as good as TDK......or even BB.

something felt "off" about it........I can understand how people can have issues and find fault with it.

for me, Catwoman was the highlight of the film........even though I still don't like her costume........

 

[Rincewind]

The saddest part for me is when bruce is grieving for rachel and we learn that she really chose harvey over bruce.

We learned that in TDK... It's still pretty sad though

 

[C_Carmichael]

Went and saw TDKR for the first time this past weekend. It's been a busy summer and I finally got around to it.

It was a good film, but I wouldn't say great. It certainly didn't thrill me to the extent that The Dark Knight did, and ultimately I didn't walk away from the theater with the same enthusiasm for TDKR as I did when I went and saw The Avengers.

If I were to rate it on a scale of 1-10, I'd likely give it an 8/10.

It was a little too long in my opinion, the story wasn't a strong as The Dark Knight, and the ending left me with questions which will never be answered, because Nolan is done with the franchise and Bale is out as the Caped Crusader.

 

[zman]

Went and saw TDKR for the first time this past weekend. It's been a busy summer and I finally got around to it.

It was a good film, but I wouldn't say great. It certainly didn't thrill me to the extent that The Dark Knight did, and ultimately I didn't walk away from the theater with the same enthusiasm for TDKR as I did when I went and saw The Avengers.

If I were to rate it on a scale of 1-10, I'd likely give it an 8/10.

It was a little too long in my opinion, the story wasn't a strong as The Dark Knight, and the ending left me with questions which will never be answered, because Nolan is done with the franchise and Bale is out as the Caped Crusader.

exactly. Nolan liked «The Dark knight returns», so that was his template, for better or worse. To me what I like the least is the beggining and the end of the movie, cause I feal that's what the most out of character for me. Heck, the ending to «The Dark knight returns» was much better and could have been applied here, just imagine how cool of a mentor Bruce would have been.

...any comment on what I wrote above?

 

[C_Carmichael]

exactly. Nolan liked «The Dark knight returns», so that was his template, for better or worse. To me what I like the least is the beggining and the end of the movie, cause I feal that's what the most out of character for me. Heck, the ending to «The Dark knight returns» was much better and could have been applied here, just imagine how cool of a mentor Bruce would have been.

...any comment on what I wrote above?

I honestly feel alot of the movie was out-of-character for the franchise, even though I'm not sure I can put a specific finger on it.

It felt anti-climatic, in that we get the impression that the Dark Knight didn't go on from the previous movie to fight crime from the shadows, while still evading the police, but rather, he gave up entirely and retired the Batman altogether.

That was certainly out of character for Bruce Wayne / Batman. Especially given the monolouge from Gordon at the end of Dark Knight while Batman is speeding away on his Batcycle.

Then, you also have the whole knee injury thing. That seems to come out of left field and doesn't make much sense. We don't have any indication that his fall with Harvey damaged his leg, as he had no problems running at the end of Dark Knight, but now, he can't walk without a cane? And then, it's all miraculously solved with a mechanical strap-on knee brace?

So, we have battered and broken Batman who gave up and retired, and began brooding and retreating from the world. Suddenly, he's going back into action. That's out of character, based on the buildup from the beginning of the movie, because since he retired the Bat, and became a hermit, why would he even care about what happens? Wouldn't he be a bit more apathetic? It seems like a bit of a duse ex moment where the entire first part of the film is tossed out, and suddenly the Bat is back in action.

Then you have the end with Robin. The way the movie ends would be the most brilliant setup for another movie, if we all didn't know for a fact that Nolan is leaving the franchise, Bale is out, and for all we know, we won't see another Batman movie for at least a decade. So, why build up a sequel that will never happen? Why not instead leave a bit of mystery about the final fate of Batman, and perhaps elude to Batman not dying via a short montage of news clips / victim interviews, etc, where Batman becomes the urban legend, the hero in the shadows, and the Bat eternal?

Like I said above, I thought it was a good movie, but it wasn't my favorite of the trilogy, and it left me with alot of questions and concerns about the storyline as a whole.

 

[The Batman]

It annoyed me to no end as well. But not because of the reason you mentioned.

I don't know how anyone can say "Batman clearly won this fight". And I'm talking about the "initial brawl" here, yes, because I have no issue with Catwoman blasting Bane into oblivion later on.

But during the fight, Batman only landed a couple of hits that set the pipes loose on Bane's mask. But I'd say Bane still had the upper hand physically.

He's the one who keeps landing punches throughout this fight. He forces Batman into a corner and slams his fists repeatedly in his belly.

That's what annoyed me a lot. Bane still is the superior fighter. Batman is only the intelligent/lucky fighter who manages to disable his opponent through a few hits to the mask. Perhaps this could have been avoided by making the pipes more difficult to break. After all, Batman landed a lot of punches during their first encounter, all on Bane's face / mask, and nothing happened. So basically, we don't get why Batman would win the second fight, by doing exactly the same thing he did in the first : hitting Bane's face a few times, and taking a lot of punishment...

With the number Bane did on him earlier in the film, I would have liked Batman to kick Bane's arse to the point he wouldn't have even been able to stand up straight. I'm talking major bones broken. I'm talking not letting Bane even land a single punch through violent counters. I'm talking "You don't get it, son. This is an operating table." I can take you any day.

To me, Bane would have won this fight again had it not been for his mask betraying him. He still is the superior fighter.

Eh, I used to see it your way, in that Bane landed more punches and therefore, hes a better fighter.

Then after watching multiple viewings of the first fight, I realized its not the quantity of punches, but the quality. In the first fight, Batman gets plenty of blows in on Bane....but they dont really faze him. Same with the second fight. Bane gets alot of blows in on Bats....but unlike the first fight, none of them are able to stop Batman. None of them have him crawling on the ground. When Bane knocks Bats down on the steps, Bats quickly springs up again.

Batman in general did not seem to be affected by Bane's assault in the second fight. He even blocks those flurry of punches that Bane gave to him. Compare that to the first fight where we saw the effects of Bane's blows on Bats. Compare that to aftermath of Joker's assault on Batman during the TDK climax, where Bats ends up talking to Joker nearly out of breath.

 

[ad101867]

. . . theres too many secondary characters . . . and theres not enough batman.

I completely agree. Watching a 2.75-hour "Batman" movie, I want more Bat-action in it. They should've ditched John and Miranda/Talia as secondary characters, because time had to be given to developing those characters' subplots--time that could've been given to Batman running around Gotham making his comeback during the first half or third of the film.

That comeback could've included--as in the original Knightfall trilogy--Bane releasing a host of criminals from either Arkham or Blackgate, thus (a) providing viewers with way more Bat-action, and (b) wearing Batman down before he faces Bane. And Bane could still have been part of the League of Shadows, and could have already had agents in Gotham infiltrating various corporations as well as government offices--thus unearthing some secrets of Wayne Enterprises--including Fox's stash of weapons and Tumblers. I'd suggest that such a discovery would also lead a smart guy like Bane to surmise that Bruce Wayne is Batman (or he could already have known via communication with Ra's al Ghul).

The final Bane-Batman showdown also could've been written and choreographed better, in three ways. (1) Give Batman a more dramatic arrival in front of City Hall than simply walking up to Bane after the mob fight has already started. I'd suggest having him on the roof of City Hall (or an adjacent building), drop down with his cape outspread (as in Batman Begins)--and "touch down" by slamming into Bane. (One way in which Nolan has disappointed me in these movies is by failing to give Batman a splashy, dramatic entrance, like smashing through a skylight as in Batman '89.)

This could've been a hugely dramatic moment if the lesser-armed gang of cops was intimidated about taking on Bane's soldiers--until the Bat shows up and inspires them to begin fighting! Instead they were already fighting and then Batman just kinda strolls into the action.

(2) Have the Bane-Batman rematch go longer while showcasing the master fighting skills of these two guys who were both trained by Ra's al Ghul. It seemed too much like a down-and-dirty street fight between thugs. It shoud've been more than that.

(3) Do justice to Bane's character by not having him go down to gunfire from the Batpod--and do justice to Batman by not having Catwoman show up in the nick of time to save his life.

 

[zman]

...yeah those are all good points. the upside of all this, without saying TDKR sucked, is that there's really a lot of things to look forward to in the next trilogy, simple things like a dramatic entrance (imagine if Batman had fallen on Bane by swooping in like in the beginning of Batman Forever, his first scene in the movie. Or falling down on him like he did upside down on those goons in BB...there's really a lot to look forward to, and that's ironically what I take away from this movie...hope.