The Official Start/Release Date & Location Thread

[C. Lee]

 

[Showtime]

That's a riot! I was going to just ask Matt why he changed his classic avatar to David Hasselhoff...now I know.

 

[Matt]

Oh please. If Batman Begins wasn't aimed at kids then neither was the original Burton film. And guess what, as a child of the mid 80s and 90s, Burton's film was very much marketed to children. All comic book movies are. BB isn't an exception. Hell, Batman himself isn't an exception. He's always been marketed to children and always will be. And last I checked there were in fact plenty of Batman Begins toys and it ain't the adults buying them and playing with them.

WB was most certainly aiming for Spider-man numbers with Begins. But it didn't happen.

There are to my knowledge a very limited ammount of toys dealing with Batman Begins, cartoons and comics...yes. Not the movie. It was NOT marketed to children. That is a fact. There are countless interviews with Nolan, Bale, Goyer and anyone else who did press on this film saying it is not meant for children. And even if it were, and even if it put up those numbers...bare with me here...because this is where it gets tricky...

BATMAN BEGINS WAS A MUCH SMALLER SCALE PRODUCTION WITH A BUDGET SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN SUPERMAN RETURNS! FURTHERMORE, YOU CAN NOT USE ANOTHER MOVIE'S SHORTCOMINGS TO JUSTIFY SUPERMAN RETURNS OR BRYAN SINGER'S!

 

[Matt]

That's a riot! I was going to just ask Matt why he changed his classic avatar to David Hasselhoff...now I know.

How dare the Hype Hassel the Hoff

 

[dude stannis]

There are to my knowledge a very limited ammount of toys dealing with Batman Begins, cartoons and comics...yes. Not the movie. It was NOT marketed to children. That is a fact. There are countless interviews with Nolan, Bale, Goyer and anyone else who did press on this film saying it is not meant for children. And even if it were, and even if it put up those numbers...bare with me here...because this is where it gets tricky...

BATMAN BEGINS WAS A MUCH SMALLER SCALE PRODUCTION WITH A BUDGET SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN SUPERMAN RETURNS! FURTHERMORE, YOU CAN NOT USE ANOTHER MOVIE'S SHORTCOMINGS TO JUSTIFY SUPERMAN RETURNS OR BRYAN SINGER'S!

Wow, talk about touchy. I don't about wherever you're from but here's how the hype for Batman begins and Superman Returns played ou in Australia:

Batman Begins:
Teaser trailer hits. Reveals little about the film other than it's a Batman movie.

Teaser posters all over the place. Have Batman doing various Batmanesque poses infront of an amber sky.

Trailer comes out, reveals it's an origin film.

KFC tie in, with very goofy commercials with kids eating KFC while splicing in footage of Batman kicking various thugs in the ass. Blowing up half of the GCPD with his Tumbler, et all

Toys hit the stands cardboard cut outs of batman are in every toy shop.

Cartoon Network play a 48 hour Batman: TAS marathon on it's opening weekend.

Superman Returns:

Teaser hits, Marlon Brando voice over ending with Superman flying off into Metropolis.

Teaser posters, exactly like the Begins ones except the background is greeny - blue

Trailer, reveals is a sequel.

Coca Cola tie in, goofy ass coomercials of kids drinking coke while editing in footage of the plane scene, bullet in the eye, et all

Toys hit the stands, cardboard cut outs of Superman in every toy store.
Cartoon Network lays 48 hour Superman TAS weekend.

If they're marketed the same way, don't you think they'll do similar numbers? The entity to blame for both films short comings is WB.

 

[dude stannis]

How did he get banned?

For being himself

His posts/threads generally resulted in fights so, the mods felt it best to throw him in the phantom zone.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

There are to my knowledge a very limited ammount of toys dealing with Batman Begins, cartoons and comics...yes. Not the movie. It was NOT marketed to children. That is a fact. There are countless interviews with Nolan, Bale, Goyer and anyone else who did press on this film saying it is not meant for children. And even if it were, and even if it put up those numbers...bare with me here...because this is where it gets tricky...

BATMAN BEGINS WAS A MUCH SMALLER SCALE PRODUCTION WITH A BUDGET SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN SUPERMAN RETURNS! FURTHERMORE, YOU CAN NOT USE ANOTHER MOVIE'S SHORTCOMINGS TO JUSTIFY SUPERMAN RETURNS OR BRYAN SINGER'S!

Ummm...did I touch a nerve? Look fella, again, as a kid who grew up watching Tim Burton's Batman--which looking back was certainly not a movie for a kid to be watching--it was most certainly aimed for kids in other areas of marketing. The exact same thing goes with Batman Begins. So your claim that BB wasn't aimed at kids is baseless.

And I still don't know who was buying those Tumbler toys or Batman action figures. According to you it wasn't kids, so I just have to imagine a 25 year old was buying them, taking them out of the box and playing with them.

 

[Maze]

The similiarity is the iconic status. You ask anyone on the street to identify Spider-Man or Superman, they can. The same similiarity does not exisit with heroes like X-Men, Daredevil, Hulk, etc. Superman has been an American icon who has been in existance for the better part of a century. He has had numerous top rated television programs, best selling books, and has appeared in countless other mediums. That is why he should be putting up ATLEAST Spider-Man numbers. In fact Bosef, I can find posts made by you a year ago, arguing these exact points as to why Superman would win the box-office over Pirates.

Well the fact matt is that even Donner Superman made considerably less that Spiderman .

And that was in an era were the Super movie genre was a "new thing" .. not saturated like now.that was in an era more receptive to clear cut heroes.

Matt ,we will surely never agree , but it's a fact ; yes Superman is an iconic figure and a lot of people recognize who it is , but is not that popular anymore , just check with what the kids are playing right now.they even adressed the issue that Superman is not that popular anymore amusingly in the latest Dc crossover.

That you like or not Singer ,that you like or not the movie, even if yes he should have done more action scenes , and he should have fixed some things ( in the script area and acting wise) the movie made new Superman believers, Singer gave a chance to Superman to really soar again.

no? let's agree to disagree .. i give you rendez vous after The man of steel release.

 

[GreenKToo]

wow, I never thought about it before, but Hasselhoff for Brainiac dammit. It would do 200 mill in Germany alone if they would cast him.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

wow, I never thought about it before, but Hasselhoff for Brainiac dammit. It would do 200 mill in Germany alone if they would cast him.

"This just goes to prove my theory: Germans love David Hasselhoff!"

 

[Matt]

Well the fact matt is that even Donner Superman made considerably less that Spiderman .

And that was in an era were the Super movie genre was a "new thing" .. not saturated like now.that was in an era more receptive to clear cut heroes.

Matt ,we will surely never agree , but it's a fact ; yes Superman is an iconic figure and a lot of people recognize who it is , but is not that popular anymore , just check with what the kids are playing right now.they even adressed the issue that Superman is not that popular anymore amusingly in the latest Dc crossover.

That you like or not Singer ,that you like or not the movie, even if yes he should have done more action scenes , and he should have fixed some things ( in the script area and acting wise) the movie made new Superman believers, Singer gave a chance to Superman to really soar again.

no? let's agree to disagree .. i give you rendez vous after The man of steel release.

When adjusted for inflation, Superman 78s numbers are as impressive if not more impressive as Spider-Man. Hell, its domestic gross was 135 million. It was 65 million short of Superman Return's numbers in a time when ticket prices were 80 % less than they are worth now. I think that is an incredibly telling statistic.

 

[Matt]

Freddy, Dude...I am not going to argue the intended demographics of Batman Begins with you, because you both know as well as I do that it was intended for an older demographic than the Spider-Man audience and you know it. To say WB expected Spider-Man numbers for it is absurd. And again, there is no point arguing BB as you can not use another movie's shortcomings to justify Bryan Singer's.

 

[green]

And again, there is no point arguing BB as you can not use another movie's shortcomings to justify Bryan Singer's.

Wait....so he cant compare it to Begins but you can go on and on comparing it to Spiderman

 

[Matt]

Wait....so he cant compare it to Begins but you can go on and on comparing it to Spiderman

They have a similiar demographic, they are both the icons of the respective comic company, and box office numbers to Superman 78 when adjusted to inflation are very similiar to those of Spider-Man. The comparrison is much more fair.

 

[Maze]

When adjusted for inflation, Superman 78s numbers are as impressive if not more impressive as Spider-Man. Hell, its domestic gross was 150-some million. It was 50 million short of Superman Return's numbers in a time when ticket prices were 80 % less than they are worth now. I think that is an incredibly telling statistic.

Well i dunno Matt , that's not what i read..

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Superman78s adjusted for inflation has even done les money than Batman ...

 

[Matt]

Just to make it clear how similiar the numbers are

Superman 1978 when adjusted for inflation would be roughly 380 million DOMESTICALLY where as Spider-Man made 400 million domestically.

 

[Matt]

Well i dunno Matt , that's not what i read..

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Superman78s adjusted for inflation has even done les money than Batman ...

I'll give you that, but you should also take into account that Batman 89 had several things going for it that Superman 78 did not.

Firstly, it had a revolutionary marketing campaign the likes of Hollywood had never seen before.

Second, it had a much larger cast than either Superman or Spider-Man (Jack Nicholson, Kim Basinger, Michael Keaton...these are all A-listers and at the time were all huge box office draws).

I still maintain comparrisons to Spider-Man are far more fair than comparrisons to Batman, 89 or Begins.

 

[Maze]

I agree about Your batman 89 point , but domestically Spiderman smoke Superman and Batman89 matt .. adjusted for inflation :Spider-Man Sony $457,209,600 .

 

[Matt]

Also, let us assume for a second, that Batman Begins was a horrible failure. Lets ignore the fact that its budget was much smaller and lets assume it failed. How exactly does that justify Superman Returns? There is no denying Superman is a larger icon. There is no denying based on numbers put up by previous Superman movies that it should've in theory recieved Spider-Man numbers. There is no denying, that is what WB wanted...a new flagship franchise. So how exactly does the failure of Batman Begins justify Superman's failure to live up to those expectations.

 

[Matt]

I agree about Your batman 89 point , but domestically Spiderman smoke Superman and Batman89 matt .. adjusted for inflation :Spider-Man Sony $457,209,600 .

Fair enough, lets drop Spider-Man. Lets compare Superman to Superman. I think we can all agree it is a fair comparrison. 380 million compared to 200 million. Quite the difference, wouldn't you say?

 

[dark_b]

superman is more for kids plus he is more fantasy. so i also think that he should make more money than batman.

 

[Maze]

Fair enough, lets drop Spider-Man. Lets compare Superman to Superman. I think we can all agree it is a fair comparrison. 380 million compared to 200 million. Quite the difference, wouldn't you say?

Of course , but apart from the point about the obvious misteps of Sr ( artistics and commercial ) that i agree with ,i maintain my point : Superman is not that cool anymore for people.and especially for kids.

they like their heroes ambiguous , dark ,and/or with every day problems .

something that ,on the paper at least, Superman do not give.

 

[Matt]

Of course , but apart from the point about the obvious misteps ( artistics and commercial ) that i agree with ,i maintain my point : Superman is not that cool anymore for people.and especially for kids.

they like their heroes ambiguous , dark ,and/or with every day problems .

something that ,on the paper at least, Superman do not give.

But Singer did make him dark, Singer did make him broody. That wasn't the problem. The problem was he was unrelatable. Singer tried so hard to alienate him, that he ended up alienating him from the audience as well.

Superman can be dark and broody and yet still relatable, likable, and maintain all the classic elements that make the character great (look no further than A Superman For All Seasons)...Singer ignored the relatable, likable, and classic elements...and that is why it failed.

 

[Maze]

Edit triplle posstt

 

[Maze]

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