The Official (?) The Savage Hawkman Thread

[Winged Wonder]

I did a search and couldn't find another one, so I guess that makes this one "official"? Sorry, I'm still not sure how things are done around here just yet.

So The Savage Hawkman so far is... okay. I'm a huge Hawkman fan and was anxious to see how the character would be handled for the relaunch, given Hawkman's volatile history. Unfortunately, I think Tony Daniel was the wrong writer to get for this assignment. I'll come back to that later, however.

For those not following The Savage Hawkman, the brief rundown on what we know of the NEW Hawkman is that he's Carter Hall, a cryptologist as opposed to an archeologist, working for an "exobiologist" named Professor Ziegler, cracking any alien or ancient messages the professor comes across. Carter apparently thinks he's an Earthling, although several clues have already been given that he's actually a Thanagarian, unbeknownst to himself. There also seems to be a burgeoning relationship slowing growing between him and Professor Ziegler's daughter, Hanna.

In addition to the who, there's also a change in the how. Whereas before Hawkman was always a superhero largely fueled by his equipment, with his Nth metal most recently serving as the crux of his power set, now Hawkman is completely and utterly one with his powers, his Nth metal and all of its gifts actually becoming a physical part of him. He can transform to and from Hawkman at will, with wings springing forth from his back and exotic-looking weapons likewise sprouting out of his hands on a whim.

The first eight issues were decent, with #1-#4 (an arc about an alien villain named Morphicius) being okay, #5-#7 (focusing on the reintroduction of the Gentleman Ghost into the DCU) being somewhat of an improvement, and the latest standalone issue, #8, probably being my least favorite of the bunch so far.

Philip Tan's art is serviceable for the most part, if not a bit messy and hard-to-follow in a lot of places. His action scenes are frenetic, but practically to a fault, where the reader can often be left wondering just what the heck is actually supposed to be going on. His characters are oddly attractive, although his faces often times look as if they're painted on and partially running, like mascara on a rainy day. But his biggest offense is probably the fact that despite drawing a character named Hawkman, there have only been a handful of panels depicting the character in flight. All in all, though, I've liked Tan's work, but I'll be thrilled when the new creative team gets their shot at the next issue, and that's primarily because of who the new artist is.

From a story standpoint, none of the issues so far have been outright bad, but the way that Daniel has chosen to dole out information at piecemeal increments is a huge mistake for a character whose continuity is as convoluted as Hawkman's has historically been perceived as being.

The problem with his approach is that Daniel has only really created more questions around the character's past simply because he has yet to establish who Hawkman actually was in this universe before we as readers first encountered him. We know that Carter was Hawkman before issue #1, considering he's shown burning and cursing his Hawkman outfit, but we don't know in what capacity. Considering New York, one of the largest cities on the planet, collectively freaks out at his appearance in issue #7 as if they've never even heard of the guy before, one can assume Hawkman wasn't a very big player in the superhero game before now.

In addition, obviously something traumatic caused him to cast off his Hawkman shackles, but was that the loss of Hawkgirl, or something else entirely? And if it was the former, does his part in Brightest Day still remain at least partially intact? If none of his past history remains intact (which I'm inclined to think is the case), then what caused Carter to become a superhero in the first place? How did he come across the Nth metal, learn of its gifts, and decide to go gallivanting around as a hawk-themed vigilante?

For any other character, I could understand wanting to create this slow burn, allowing for intrigue to cultivate in the readers' minds. But for a character like Hawkman who has more origin stories than most people have toes, I think it was more important to work with the character from a ground-up standpoint. Establish who he is and go from there, if you will. The strategy that Daniel decided to go with, however, just risks alienating the audience further, making older fans constantly and probably needlessly guessing at which version they're getting, while leaving new readers to wonder if Hawkman's messy history is still attached to him, after all.

In short, this was the first chance in a great long while for a writer to really hit the ground running with the character. Instead of taking multiple issues to explain to readers just who Hawkman is, Daniel could have set down a simple origin in one issue and then proceeded to do stories of Hawkman going on exciting adventures immediately thereafter. But he didn't, and we as readers are left running on a wild goose chase, wondering just who this Hawkman actually is. Again.

All in all, it's been a bumpy start, and the sales numbers reflect that, unfortunately. I'm hoping the new creative team of Rob Liefeld and Joe Bennett can inject some much needed enthusiasm into the book, though. I know Liefeld has his share of detractors, and then some, but keep in mind he's not drawing the interiors. Bennett, on the other hand, is absolutely fantastic, in my opinion, and has already proven himself as one of the premiere contemporary Hawkman artists out there with his work on the character alongside Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti. He really should have been on this book from the start, as I think his name alone would have brought with it a lot of enthusiasm from existing Hawkman fans.

I can't say much for Liefeld's writing, having no recollection of ever reading any of it, but if you're on the fence, maybe give issue #9 a chance, for we small group of Hawkman fans out there. Hawkman's an underrated character, and I'm hopeful that the relaunch can help reestablish him as a solid second-tier presence in the DCU. But for that to happen, I really think DC have to establish just who he is now, and up till now, I don't think they've managed to do that.

Despite going about it the wrong way, I do nevertheless believe that Daniel was on the right track, having cast aside the reincarnation angle. I liked it for a time, too, but it needlessly pigeonholed the characters (both Hawkman and Hawkgirl) towards the end of the "Old DCU," and I think it was time for it to go. Likewise, I think establishing Carter as a solo act and placing Hawkgirl on Earth 2 is a bold but ultimately intriguing decision. It might be nice to see a Hawkman and Hawkgirl side-by-side again someday, but I think gradually building up to a partnership rather than establishing it right off the bat, be it by way of assignment or fate, could make for some fun future storylines.

In the meantime, it looks like Hawkman may again be a Thanagarian named Katar Hol, but perhaps a sleeper agent this time around, or maybe even something else entirely. I'm interested in seeing what it is exactly, though, and the book desperately needs sales at this point if there's to be any hope of seeing the character properly fleshed out.

So give it a chance. I'm not going to say it's the best book on the shelves, because it's definitely not, but it's been intriguing enough up to this point, and at least with Bennett on board we already know the art's bound to be better:

TL;DR: The Savage Hawkman has been decent enough so far, but it needs to improve quickly in order to gain more readers if it's to establish who exactly this new Hawkman is. Hopefully, the new creative team can inject some much-needed life into the title this month.

That's all I've got. Interested in hearing what other fans and readers think.

 

[Kurosawa]

I'm a huge Hawkman fan but most of the people on this board hate him for some reason. Of course if all I knew of him was the Geoff Johns run, I'd dislike the character too. Savage Hawkman was a good opportunity missed. They should have totally rebooted the character, and they should have given the book a title that didn't sound like it came from Marvel Comics circa 1976. The original origin (reincarnated Egyptian prince) is by far the best, and even Johns handled that well for a while, but they were written like crap in Brightest Day. The mishandling of the Hawks and Earth-Two and the JSA is just more proof that DC has no idea what to do with their characters, and really no clue period about much of anything. If they didn't have corporate ownership and Batman bailing them out, they'd be out of business. It's been so long since DC has been themselves that they have no clue who they are and what their comics are supposed to be. Creatively speaking, they are fubar.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know about other people, but I hate Hawkman because in pretty much everything I've read with him he's been the Hulk with wings. I know that'll send you off on a rant about how I need to read the Golden Age stuff, Kuro, but I'll hopefully save you some trouble by declaring pretty steadfastly right now that I'm not going to.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

hmmm discounting the continuity crap with Hawkman. I pretty much gave up on continuity awhile ago after every freaking hero and his mom got reconned with a drinking problem or some crap that that you never heard of before after years of reading comics. i just started to lump everything together( but thats just me!) Hawkman is one of the true hero with a serious ax( hehe see he uses ancient weapons!) to grind. imagine if you were reborn over and over again to have a crappy life and knew that nothing you did was going to change it! I would have a serious mad-on and be smashing all sorts of people around with a *gladius up side their &^%$#* heads! That dude to me has every right to be freakin cheese off at everybody!! ( and if you are a freakin bad guy even more so, cause some stupid bad guy is the reason/ cause of you having playing this **record over and over again, but that just my 3 and 1/2 cents

*-Galdiator talk for sword
**-old folks talk for a carbonized disc to play N'Sync on

 

[Kurosawa]

I don't know about other people, but I hate Hawkman because in pretty much everything I've read with him he's been the Hulk with wings. I know that'll send you off on a rant about how I need to read the Golden Age stuff, Kuro, but I'll hopefully save you some trouble by declaring pretty steadfastly right now that I'm not going to.

No, I have pretty much completely given up on the modern comics fan having anything approaching taste. The only Hawkman you have ever read is an abomination written by one of the biggest hacks in the history of comics, and that is most likely how the character will stay. Like 95% of DC's characters, Hawkman is ruined.

 

[Harlekin]

Is it possible for you to disconnect this Hawkman from those that came before and enjoy it on its own merits?

 

[Kurosawa]

Is it possible for you to disconnect this Hawkman from those that came before and enjoy it on its own merits?

If it had any, sure.

As it is, it's pretty meh. Daniel is a decent artist who is a poor writer, and Liefeld is taking over, and he is a terrible artist who is an even worse writer.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Golden Age Hawkman is pretty damn cool. Great concept and some really great artwork. Probably some of the best of the era, really.

I also really liked Hawkworld, even though that was supposed to be the Silver Age Hawkman. But it's also where DC really screwed the pooch of sorts. It was supposed to be the Silver Age Hawkman, but then the Hawkworld on-going made that an impossibility of sorts and then I try to stop thinking about it after that because I don't quite get it. Katar Hall no longer exists due to some crazy Zero Hour stuff and Carter Hall, while still living many lives, is the only Hawkman and Thanagarians crashed on earth in Ancient Egypt, explaining how the Nth Metal works. Am I missing something?

I agree that now was the time to totally start over and streamline the character. I don't think Tony Daniel or Rob Liefeld are the people for the job. Hawkman should be epic. And it should be written by someone who has a grasp of writing beyond comic book verbiage. Woulda been neat to see an Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman Hawkman book. I think the character lends itself to something alittle bit more than generic superhero. Every now and then you get a Batman story that feels more like a legit crime comic or a Superman story that feels more like an epic sci-fi drama than just being a typical superhero comic.

 

[Kurosawa]

Golden Age Hawkman is pretty damn cool. Great concept and some really great artwork. Probably some of the best of the era, really.

I also really liked Hawkworld, even though that was supposed to be the Silver Age Hawkman. But it's also where DC really screwed the pooch of sorts. It was supposed to be the Silver Age Hawkman, but then the Hawkworld on-going made that an impossibility of sorts and then I try to stop thinking about it after that because I don't quite get it. Katar Hall no longer exists due to some crazy Zero Hour stuff and Carter Hall, while still living many lives, is the only Hawkman and Thanagarians crashed on earth in Ancient Egypt, explaining how the Nth Metal works. Am I missing something?

I agree that now was the time to totally start over and streamline the character. I don't think Tony Daniel or Rob Liefeld are the people for the job. Hawkman should be epic. And it should be written by someone who has a grasp of writing beyond comic book verbiage. Woulda been neat to see an Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman Hawkman book. I think the character lends itself to something alittle bit more than generic superhero. Every now and then you get a Batman story that feels more like a legit crime comic or a Superman story that feels more like an epic sci-fi drama than just being a typical superhero comic.

Exactly. Hawkman's book should be rooted in archeology and Egyptian mythology. The Great Pyramid of Giza? Hawkman was Khufu, aka Cheops, and he built it. The character has almost 5,000 years of life experiences, he's been reincarnated as almost every race, he can speak about all living and dead languages on the level of a native, he is proficient in weaponry and martial arts ranging from Ancient Egyptian battle tactics to Roman Gladiatorial tactics, to native American and Samurai and African battle styles, can use any weapon with incredible skill...there is so much potential there but Johns went for the simple "Conan with wings" angle, as he always does. He reduces his characters to one word tropes and keeps them there. Hawkman: angry. Hal Jordan: irresponsible. Aquaman: disrespected. Johns sucks.

 

[Winged Wonder]

Is it possible for you to disconnect this Hawkman from those that came before and enjoy it on its own merits?

Absolutely, but that's sort of both the strength and weakness of the title right now. On one hand, Hawkman has pretty much been established as a completely new character for the relaunch. On the other hand, however, he does have a history in this new continuity, but we currently have very little idea idea of what that history is exactly.

His motivations largely remain a mystery, which is frustrating to me as an existing fan of the character. New readers, though, may not find it quite so vexing.

Also, I would say that new readers shouldn't let the world "savage" in the title fool you. I think it was a horrible mistake putting that adjective in there, not only because it needlessly carries on the stereotype that Hawkman is nothing more than a mindless brute (there are a ton of Silver Age stories, too, Corpulent, that don't portray the character in this way; he's more akin to Batman than Conan during that era, really), but also because Daniel's interpretation of Hawkman is actually quite laid back.

There have been a couple of moments where Hawkman's roughed some folks up to get answers, but for the most part he's been far more thoughtful than "savage." His encounter with a blind widow in issue #6, I think it was, was handled very delicately, for example, even if Daniel and his co-writer aren't the best at dialogue.

As for Liefeld's past writing work, can anyone give me any examples? I've actually heard his writing isn't nearly bad as his art, so I'm still hopeful.

And I know I'm not a mod, so I can't really enforce it, but could we maybe keep the debate of who Hawkman is, the best version of him, et cetera, to a minimum? This is a new start for Hawkman, and I'm trying to take it in as such, while being hopeful that other fans will be willing to do the same. Unfortunately, though, it seems like every Hawkman thread on the Internet slowly devolves into a "Carter vs. Katar" debate or which origin is better, and I'd rather just focus on who Hawkman is going to be from now on, which is slowly shaping up to be "none of the above."

 

[Harlekin]

If it had any, sure.

As it is, it's pretty meh. Daniel is a decent artist who is a poor writer, and Liefeld is taking over, and he is a terrible artist who is an even worse writer.

Well, I'm speaking more specifically about Johns' Hawkman, who I enjoyed separate from his earlier incarnations.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Exactly. Hawkman's book should be rooted in archeology and Egyptian mythology. The Great Pyramid of Giza? Hawkman was Khufu, aka Cheops, and he built it. The character has almost 5,000 years of life experiences, he's been reincarnated as almost every race, he can speak about all living and dead languages on the level of a native, he is proficient in weaponry and martial arts ranging from Ancient Egyptian battle tactics to Roman Gladiatorial tactics, to native American and Samurai and African battle styles, can use any weapon with incredible skill...there is so much potential there but Johns went for the simple "Conan with wings" angle, as he always does. He reduces his characters to one word tropes and keeps them there. Hawkman: angry. Hal Jordan: irresponsible. Aquaman: disrespected. Johns sucks.

I don't really get the "Conan with wings" angle. I mean, Hawkman should be a master fighter in all aspects of defense. Hell, he should be able to best Batman, I'd say. The "barbarian" angle is very narrow minded.

Anyways, my ideal Hawkman creative team? Matt Wagner scripting AND art duties. If not art, then I'd put Francesco Francavilla on art duties.

Wagner is a master at epic fantasy and mythology(Mage, Madam Xanadu) and a master at pulp fiction(Zorro, Batman, Green Hornet, Sandman Mystery Theater) and I feel Hawkman inhabits both epic fantasy and the best of pulp. His artwork is great, too. But Francesco Francavilla, having already worked with Wagner(Zorro, and the Green Hornet: Year One covers), and based on his other work with Scott Snyder on Detective Comics and his own character, The Black Beetle in Dark Horse Presents, has proven to be a more than perfect choice for art duties. Hell, he's got some pretty awesome sketches of Hawkman on his blog, too.

There's really no reason why Hawkman should be a crappy d-list character in this relaunch.

 

[Winged Wonder]

The day's almost upon us for the new creative team's debut, and CBR has a preview up on their webpage. I think it looks pretty good, actually. The dialogue is a bit by-the-numbers, but at least Hawkman is finally attacking some airborne villains for once in this series. I'm also glad to see his occupation as an archeologist finally brought up. So I guess he's not just a cryptologist in this new continuity, after all.

I do, however, think it's a horrible mistake for DC to allow Rob Liefeld to do the covers. I quite simply adore Joe Bennett's art, and it looks really good here, but I can't help but think that a lot of people are going to get the wrong impression when they see that cover combined with Liefeld's name printed upon it. A lot of people will probably pass this issue up on those two factors alone, without even picking it up to see how much better the interior art truly is.

 

[Winged Wonder]

Issue #9 of The Savage Hawkman is out, and what an improvement! First, a summary:

• Issue opens up with Carter Hall musing over his current predicament and all of the mysteries that have come up lately, particularly the Nth metal's new abilities.
• Suddenly, he's attacked by some sci-fi-looking thugs with flight packs, recording their skirmish for an unknown source.
• Despite him being somewhat flustered at first, Hawkman soon makes short work of the thugs, and begins to interrogate one of the men.
• He learns that the man behind the attack is named Xerxes, but before the thug can reveal any more information, he disintegrates!
• Hawkman, baffled, then experiences a transmission of some sort through his armor of a beautiful red-haired mistress, appearing to call him "Katar" with word about "Thanagar."
• Further perplexed by these new developments, Carter returns to his loft, only for it to blow up in his face... literally!
• The next morning, utilizing a locker stashed with equipment and valuables (one of many he has across the city), he meets up with Emma and begins discussing with her an ancient scroll he has that he's only recently begun to understand. He believes it has something to do with ascension and alien life, but he's still in the midst of deciphering it.
• Suddenly, he and Emma are attacked, this time by a bloke calling himself "Ironside." He's able to subdue Hawkman and takes Emma along for the ride, seemingly via some sort of teleportation device.
• At an undisclosed location, Hawkman wakes up to find himself in a cage more appropriate for a dog. A new figure clad in metal armor then appears: the mysterious Xerxes!
• Xerxes explains that Hawkman's organic Nth metal armor is quite rare and valuable, and, as such, he's to be the centerpiece of an upcoming intergalactic auction.
• To get top-dollar from this auction, however, Xerxes plans to showcase just what the armor can do by forcing Hawkman in a gladiatorial match of sorts. And if he refuses, Emma will be killed in front of him!
• To be continued!

Okay, so it's not Charles Dickens, but it was a very entertaining read.

Joe Bennett proves once again that he's one of the premiere contemporary Hawkman artists with this issue. Hawkman looks good in his new look here, with Bennett taking some of the older elements of the character's costume and blending them with the old to make this interpretation of Hawkman more presentable looking than he's appeared thus far since the relaunch. The action scenes are frenetic and easy to make sense of, while the layouts are easy to follow and help create a sense of urgency. The quiet moments are great, too, with the characters faces showcasing the appropriate displays of emotions without overselling any of it.

The writing is less impressive, but still serviceable. Some of the dialogue is what you might expect from a Michael Bay film, but the caption boxes are appropriately descriptive and help to make the book a more substantial, yet still relevant, read. Rob Liefeld appears to be tackling the mysteries of this new interpretation of Hawkman with a fair amount of enthusiasm, but he also remains restrained enough to not jump the gun on spilling too much information too soon. Once again hinting at Carter's alien origins and perhaps giving us our first glimpse of Shayera in the new DC Universe were pretty substantial revelations, but they were limited to a single page and only a handful of panels, while the main plot and the action its facilitating remained firmly at center stage.

I'm really, really happy after reading this issue. I know a lot of people have their problems with Liefeld (although he didn't write this issue alone; Mark Poulton helped him with the actual script), but I have to believe that if The Savage Hawkman started out on with this issue, it would be doing much better right now in sales. I urge anyone who dropped the title to give it a second chance with this issue, as well as recommend anyone looking for a good jumping-on point to make this issue their first. It's a fun comic, and the lead character is tough but remains personable enough to want to genuinely root for.

Carefree adventure and high-flying action is honestly what originally turned me on to Hawkman when I was a kid, and this issue adeptly captures both of those elements. Again, it's not high art by any means, but for a superhero comic book, it's well worth the price of admission.

 

[Winged Wonder]

Issue #10 came out yesterday, and I'm sorry to say that it's a slight dip in quality from #9. Still good, but a bit of a filler issue, if you ask me. The summary:

• Hawkman is trapped in an old hockey arena serving as a makeshift gladiatorial ring, as his Nth Metal is put on display for the highest bidder.
• Two of his opponents have already been dealt with, leaving three more for Hawkman to put down.
• After quickly and handily dispatching two of the three, the final combatant, who self-identifies himself as the champion trying to earn his freedom with this win, puts up the best fight, but ultimately falls, too.
• Xerxes, impressed, decided to enter the ring himself and give Hawkman a go.
• Immediately taking the upper-hand, Xerxes informs Hawkman that he's going to be keeping the Nth Metal for himself, after all, considering it should have a more worthy owner than Carter.
• Biding his time, Hawkman finds an opening and downs Xerxes long enough to grab Emma and make his escape, using the former champion as a human bomb to blow open an exit.
• Xerxes vows that he'll find Hawkman again, and when he does, he'll send him to "Chinvat" (a quick Wikipedia search identifies it as a bridge to the world of the dead).
• On the run and in a strange city (though still on Earth), Carter and Emma plan to leave on a freighter before grabbing a flight back home, Carter not wanting to put a commercial aircraft in danger with people still gunning for his Nth Metal.
• At a mysterious location, we see a man who we glimpsed before at the arena contacting the "Kherubim Mongrel" (other message boards have led me to believe this is a WildStorm reference that's lost on me).
• He tells the holographic projection before him that Carter is gaining deftness at handling the Nth Metal, and that other parties are now after it.
• The contact replies that it will be obtained, as it's already been "predetermined," though the mysterious benefactor has his doubts.
• At a pier, Carter and Emma are boarding the freighter, all the while watched by an unknown party.
• Enter Pike, the Merc with a... wait a minute! That can't be right...
• To be continued!

All in all, it was a decent issue, but I was disappointed that no real answers were doled out. I also would have liked to have seen Shayera again, but I suppose her popping up only occasionally at this point is what will keep her appearances interesting.

Bennett's work is once again brilliant. With half of the issue made up almost entirely of the gladiatorial fight scene, the book was largely carried by his pencils. I would easily grab this title for Bennett's art alone.

Which is a good thing, as the dialogue here was pretty bland, with an occasional cliche one-liner thrown in to make it seem a bit worse. Liefeld and Poulton also repeated themselves a couple of times from last issue, even pointing out the fact that Carter had, "said this before." The dialogue's not horrible, nor does it by any means make the issue unreadable, but it's definitely the weak point of the series right now. Hopefully they tighten things up a bit in the near future.

Anyway, this thread is pretty much a one-man show right, I guess. I hope I'm not the only person on these boards still reading The Savage Hawkman, though I may very well be the only one enjoying it enough to bother discussing it. I'd love to read what others have to think, and if you're still on the fence about whether to give it a try or not, I would be happy to answer any questions you have about The Savage Hawkman, all the while continuing to recommend it. It has a clear focus now, and I can only imagine it will continue to improve, assuming it maintains the sales necessary to continue long enough to improve.