The Official WONDER WOMAN Discussion Thread - Part 3

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]351163[/split]

 

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]346710[/split]

 

[Tron Bonne]

I was about to pick it up when i read this. They seriously did that? That is so disrespectful to the character and her fans throughout the years.

Yeah, they completely did. Last issue, 612, they had one of the Gods bluntly say that Diana couldn't have sufficient 'human' compassion and love being raised on Paradise Island. I mentioned this earlier and detailed how it was pretty a much a bum critique, especially considering Wonder Woman's entire existence is kind of centered around the idea of love as a guiding force.

Whether or not Hester and/or JMS really sit down and meant that as a critique of the Wonder Woman concept is obviously something we don't know for sure, but that's exactly what's being presented to us since last issue. It's like I said before, it's basically like taking Superman and having a story in which he's taken away from his raising in Smallville because his moral code isn't up to snuff. It wasn't as blunt this latest issue, but the implication is still slopping around, I felt.

Can someone give me a rundown of the most recent WW arc? The solicits for her title come relaunch make it sound like they aren't going with a new origin or re-telling the same origin so I assume it is somewhat continuing from this run?

Long story short: Wonder Woman was defeated and essence taken by a God trio called The Morrigan, ran by Nemesis (The God of vengeance, not the dude she dated for awhile). Before that happened, one of the fates split Diana's thread so that it created an alternate universe where Paradise Island was destroyed, and Diana ushered off to live in hiding with a small group of Amazons who got off the ship. The story has basically been her trying to figure this out and Nemesis wanting to corrupt this part of Diana, or something, to completely have her essence. That's it in a nutshell.

But as far as it continuing in the relaunch, it's fairly doubtful. Hester, the current writer, said not too long ago that Odyssey wouldn't really fit into the post-Flashpoint plans (though, to be fair, he also said they weren't really sure what their plans actually were at that point, either). It's possible that changed, but considering how, even under JMS, this story would have been 'fixed' and its lack of rousing success that DC surely hoped from it, I'm guessing we probably won't get a whole of direct continuation of this storyline come September.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Ok. And--just to understand the so called "slap to WW fans"--you are saying that in this recent arc JMS is somehow saying that before WW never held a high regard for human compassion and love? I'm not the biggest WW fan but yea that sounds wack. Heck, in Blackest Night, she gets a Star Sapphire ring BECAUSE "no one loves the Earth more than WW".

Thinking about it, I may pick up the WW title. Probably a digital copy.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Ok. And--just to understand the so called "slap to WW fans"--you are saying that in this recent arc JMS is somehow saying that before WW never held a high regard for human compassion and love? I'm not the biggest WW fan but yea that sounds wack. Heck, in Blackest Night, she gets a Star Sapphire ring BECAUSE "no one loves the Earth more than WW".

Thinking about it, I may pick up the WW title. Probably a digital copy.

Yeah, more or less. Maybe not that she doesn't hold those traits in high regards as much as she simply doesn't have these traits sufficiently enough, I guess. The whole idea being presented is that Wonder Woman basically doesn't have sufficient love for humanity because she wasn't raised in Man's World. I don't have the issue in front of me, but in a paragraph that's said by, I believe, Aphrodite pretty bluntly says that being raised on Paradise Island can't produce love, or even something 'human' enough, apparently.

It's not even about being a slap to the face of fans, really. It's just such a brazen attempt to address some kind of perceived idea that this character whose entire concept revolves around love (granted, some tough love, occasionally ) somehow doesn't have enough of it simply because she didn't grow up on the mean streets. In my opinion, not only does it disrespect the material and the concept of the character, but there's also a rather dark implication that just because someone is raised in a different culture they are somehow 'less human' than your own.

And, you know, like I said I'm not really trying to denounce Hester or JMS or anyone on this project. Maybe they didn't mean for this story to really be this grand critique of the Wonder Woman concept, but it seems inescapable that view is at least partially there to me. I said before, and unless the final issue really changes my mind I'm going to stick with this, that this story kind of comes off as a story meant to be kind of a deconstruction/intended reinvention of something when the architect in charge really didn't have knowledge of the material to begin with, or worse, had knowledge of it but very little actual respect for it.

 

[Manic]

"Hey, Wonder Woman."

"Yes?"

"You know how you were raised on an island full of women whose society centers around love and compassion because they were created by the goddesses specifically to be a new branch of the human race that rejects war?"

"...yes."

"And you know how the gods empowered you with many of their own traits, including Aphrodite the goddess of love who gave you not only beauty but an unending capacity to love others?"

"...y-yes."

"Well, it turns out none of that makes you capable of loving people."

 

[Anubis]

I wonder has anybody pointed that out to them....

 

[trustyside-kick]

"Hey, Wonder Woman."

"Yes?"

"You know how you were raised on an island full of women whose society centers around love and compassion because they were created by the goddesses specifically to be a new branch of the human race that rejects war?"

"...yes."

"And you know how the gods empowered you with many of their own traits, including Aphrodite the goddess of love who gave you not only beauty but an unending capacity to love others?"

"...y-yes."

"Well, it turns out none of that makes you capable of loving people."

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, in a nutshell, that's exactly what's being said. It's hard to really describe it as anything less than...absurd, frankly. I say that even not really disliking this story all that much. I'm still kind of hoping that the last issue with somehow throw this on its head in some way, but the latest issue seemed to be going with it. You know, whatevas, though. At least it's not Amazon's Attack. I think just about any WW-related story can have that claim no matter how horrible it is from now on.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Now while it isn't the most unique and original idea that--though it is I think the first time the idea was presented in the DCU--does it bug any of you WW fans that DC is taking the idea of showing the Gods in a contemporary and modern form when they did that with some of the Gods in The Trials of Shazam thing?

As in you are going to have the Gods concealing themselves in regular human form looking any way they wish come the relaunch in WW. This was mentioned in one of the SDCC DC Panels. So like in Trials of Shazam for instance in case you haven't read you had like Hercules looking like a huge buff hispanic looking dude who was put in prison for killing some dude (I forget the reason behind it think was framed but that's irrelevant).

 

[Tron Bonne]

It doesn't really bother me or anything. I kind of prefer the classic deities to have a more solid form, but the ideas and concepts of Gods are fluxy enough that I don't really have a problem with a take like that or anything.

 

[Mystirious]

Yep it could be an interesting take on the greek gods

It sounds a bit like how Rucka wrote them

"Hey, Wonder Woman."

"Yes?"

"You know how you were raised on an island full of women whose society centers around love and compassion because they were created by the goddesses specifically to be a new branch of the human race that rejects war?"

"...yes."

"And you know how the gods empowered you with many of their own traits, including Aphrodite the goddess of love who gave you not only beauty but an unending capacity to love others?"

"...y-yes."

"Well, it turns out none of that makes you capable of loving people."

Makes perfect sense

I am so glad that Odyssey is getting retconned after the relaunch

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, it is kind like Rucka, but he still had them as the physically defined classic deities, they had just shifted in different directions with the time (like Ares became the God of Conflict as opposed to simply bloody, stupid war). It sounds like this will be something more akin to the Gods constantly shifting into varies forms; 'they could be anyone', I think was said. It's hard to say at this point obviously, but that seems to be the impression I'm getting.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Here's a new, uncolored and unlettered, page from the upcoming #1

 

[Mystirious]

Wonder Woman has never gotten along with centaurs

Well, it is kind like Rucka, but he still had them as the physically defined classic deities, they had just shifted in different directions with the time (like Ares became the God of Conflict as opposed to simply bloody, stupid war). It sounds like this will be something more akin to the Gods constantly shifting into varies forms; 'they could be anyone', I think was said. It's hard to say at this point obviously, but that seems to be the impression I'm getting.

Could be kind of a neat new way to write those characters. I'm definitely interested in seeing what Azzarello has planned for the Wonder Woman series when it starts

 

[Nightrunner]

That is some really good art! Those gauntlets are weird though. Why are they curved at their edges? They make her arms look like they re bending.

Well the new Diana is practically 98% of the old Diana and Nemesis only has the hollow shell of Diana because Clotho and the gods altered the world and thus provided time to alter Diana, delay and now ultimately ruin Nemesis' plans. I mean Diana has been going thru alot with Darkseid corrupting her, Nekron corrupting her, but she also has shown she loves the world more than anyone else so her falling to Nemesis' blade might seem like flatout ******** to alot.

I wouldn't say it's disrespectful to the fans, but the story could have been written off better, it has neat concepts but it's a Modern Warfare meets Anime story.

That explains it then. I guess...

 

[Mystirious]

but she also has shown she loves the world more than anyone else so her falling to Nemesis' blade might seem like flatout ******** to alot.

Yes

Yes it does

 

[Tron Bonne]

We haven't looked at the sales in awhile in here:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20700.html

611 and 612 both came out in June, and they ranked right along each other at number 56 and 57, respectively. Just for context, the actual numbers are 30,874 and 30,690, respectively. So, yeah, the title has more or less evened out to any kind of bump it received (I haven't been keeping my eye on it a lot, but I do believe this has been the case for the last couple of issues, too).

Interesting, the WW Flashpoint tie-in sold pretty well. It's the fourth best selling FP tie-in behind, Abin-Sur, Hal Jordan and Batman.

 

[Tron Bonne]

We haven't looked at the sales in awhile in here:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20700.html

611 and 612 both came out in June, and they ranked right along each other at number 56 and 57, respectively. Just for context, the actual numbers are 30,874 and 30,690, respectively. So, yeah, the title has more or less evened out to any kind of bump it received (I haven't been keeping my eye on it a lot, but I do believe this has been the case for the last couple of issues, too).

Interesting, the WW Flashpoint tie-in sold pretty well. It's the fourth best selling FP tie-in behind Abin-Sur, Hal Jordan and Batman.

 

[Mystirious]

Hope that the new series sells pretty well when it starts

 

[Mystirious]

Hope that the new series sells pretty well when it starts

 

[The Caped Knight]

Looks like Diana is back to wearing the bathing suit underwear . I knew the long pants wouldn't work for long

 

[Manic]

Ugh, Finch.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I miss the Classic Wonder Woman

 

[Mystirious]

Ugh, Finch.

Everyone on that cover looks so grim and angry

I feel like the JLA are going to beat me up and take my lunch money

Looks like Diana is back to wearing the bathing suit underwear . I knew the long pants wouldn't work for long

Yay!

Be pantsless and proud Wonder Woman