The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]464909[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]460037[/split]

 

[B]

you guys seriously messed up Anderson at the under 20 world cup and for Porto he was being likened to Ronaldinho and d you could just see why. god knows what Fergie tried to turn him into.

He was never really like Ronaldinho though maybe bar the odd manner in which he skipped past people effortlessly.

He was filled with energy & often tenacious in possession, his passing range let him down now & again as he's quite a direct with his passing at times & there are times when a team needs to keep hold of the ball to settle themselves. I've seen footage of him before & while he was at Porto & I have to say I've never thought his playstyle was even remotely similar to Ronaldinho's.

His potential I feel has been hurt more by the variety of injuries he has suffered during the course of his stay at the club. The bad cruciate ligament one he suffered 2/3 years ago probably being the one that did the most damage as he no longer looks as explosive as he did before the injury. He doesn't look slow, but not quite the same.

He is only 25 so I mean he can still grow & improve, however unless he can somewhat go on a rapid period of improvement he'll always be a rotation/backup player for us.. or should be if we had 2-3 good CM's. He should be getting games at CM ahead of Phil Jones, that is something I do know for certain.

 

[chamber-music]

I doubt Paul Scholes is coming back out of retirement this time around.

 

[Iceman]

Martinez is getting Everton playing at a much better level than Moyes did. They've looked very good in this 1st half away against the current top team in the league.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Everton overran Arsenal for much of that first half, nearly a 100 successful passes more, but Arsenal created the better two chances right at the end when they started to hit some rhythm.

@Grommers and B, from the other thread. I can see both of your points regarding our lack of quality and system, all I am saying is that I think the big problem is Moyes, for me we'd be better off cutting our losses and getting in a more forward thinking and progressive manager who can attract the talent we need.

 

[Iceman]

You would most likely be better off, but it wouldn't have been a fair opportunity for a new manager. Difficult situation. I wonder how low he would have to finish to get the boot in the summer. Would have to be below 5th IMO as they can always say we'll back him big in the summer and get back up there. You think there's any chance of him getting sacked mid season? He'd probably have to lose 10 matches in a row or something.

Yeah, this match has turned back to Arsenal since the end of the 1st half. Everton are a good functional team and have done very well overall in this match but they don't create enough good goalscoring opportunities when they have the upper hand.

 

[Iceman]

Wenger's doing a Mourinho. Really going for the kill here. Triple substitution, Walcott, Rosicky & Flamini for Ramsey, Santi & Wilshere.

 

[TheFuture]

I would still give Moyes time but Man U are circling dangerously around the beginning of a rut that the manager can't afford to allow happen.

From what I heard about the Everton game you had the chances to put the game to bed but didn't take them (being a Liverpool fan I can share that pain). But I did watch the Newcastle game and I have to say, Man U looked pretty horrendous. Just bereft of ideas. I also thought Moyes starting a clearly not fit RVP was a perfect illustration of the desperation he must be feeling.

Newcastle also played with no fear, and it's been awhile since I've seen a team like Newcastle go to OT and play with no inhibitions. The fear factor is gone.

So January can't come quick enough, but I'd be concerned that Moyes, given how old school he seems to be, will be against the idea of going all out in the January transfer window. I'm sure they'll sign a centre mid, but IMO they need a CB and a winger at the very least as well (Valencia and Young aren't up to it, not sure about Nani). I used to rate Hernandez as well but I'm starting to think that Man U need to upgrade (especially if RVP is going to be in and out injured), so you could argue a CF is needed as well in January.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Evenh though I wanted Arsenal to win as I'd much prefer they won the PL than the other 33 options, I have to say Everton deserved a point. Really good game between two teams that play a fluid system with great movement.

You would most likely be better off, but it wouldn't have been a fair opportunity for a new manager. Difficult situation. I wonder how low he would have to finish to get the boot in the summer. Would have to be below 5th IMO as they can always say we'll back him big in the summer and get back up there. You think there's any chance of him getting sacked mid season? He'd probably have to lose 10 matches in a row or something.

The thing that worries me is how far he's drug us down already, giving him a £100M to spend is no guarantee of improvement, it could be throwing good money after bad as I think he looks out of his depth, he conveys no confidence in interviews which makes me wonder what he's like when trying to motivate the players..

 

[Dr Lee]

I knew we were screwed against Newcastle when he was quoted as saying that they'd make it difficult for them.... FMFS!

 

[Iceman]

Evenh though I wanted Arsenal to win as I'd much prefer they won the PL than the other 33 options, I have to say Everton deserved a point. Really good game between two teams that play a fluid system with great movement.

Everton definitely deserved the point. Now Arsenal have to try not to lose the next 2 games. I really think they can win the league just by getting almost maximum points against the bottom 11 teams (close to 60 points), a mixture of wins, draws and losses against 4th-9th (another 18 points) and draws against City & Chelsea (a couple more points to take them to about 80 points total). City & Chelsea still aren't getting into a consistent title rhythm away from home.

The thing that worries me is how far he's drug us down already, giving him a £100M to spend is no guarantee of improvement, it could be throwing good money after bad as I think he looks out of his depth, he conveys no confidence in interviews which makes me wonder what he's like when trying to motivate the players..

The situation is worse than the pre-appointment Moyes-detractors would have predicted. But if the board buy the right players that are available that is still good for the club with or without Moyes. You just have to hope that those who are responsible for making the decision on how long/whether he stays are competent and can attribute fairly what part of any resurgence due to top new players is down to Moyes and what part is down to just buying top players. That said Moyes has inherited a team with a reputation and recent history way above the talent of the actual squad. For all Fergie's talk of leaving the place in excellent shape, he really didn't from a squad point of view. Moyes is to blame for the current situation but at least 30% of the blame is also just to do with the weak squad. Moyes has kept Rooney where many others would have let him go. That is at least one successful managerial maneuver for this season (particularly given their history), even if he is sold next summer (at a better price than they likely would have got last year).

 

[Van Petrol]

Draw was a fair result. Everton deserved what they got, they were immense in the first half. This is one of the reasons why I can't see us winning anything come May next year. We still can't seem to get the job done when we're not playing particularly well or need to grind out a result.

I'm not expecting anything out of our next two league games. Sure we'll probably give it a good try, but I reckon we'll come away from both empty handed.

 

[Van Petrol]

Probably get some heat from this, but I think Martinez would have been a good shout for the United job.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

Well the weekend paper rumor round up has

RSVP handing in a transfer request
Rio leading a player revolt
The glazers holding crisis talks
The glazers looking at other managers with klopp being named
Lag away missing games after getting stomach pumped due to other eating in depression.


I don't believe any of them, sadly the man is going nowhere. Though if there was a chance of Koop I'd grab it. If it were true we'ed finally see the kagawa we bought.

 

[Van Petrol]

Granted Moyes isn't cut out for the job, but I think those at the top are more to blame than he is. They did hire him afterall, and tbf, the squad was in need of a major overhaul and re-build when Fergie was still there, with most of the cracks being papered over. It's just that Fergie was brilliance that could get 200% out of a team that was maybe capable of only 60-70% in reality under anyone else.

 

[TheFuture]

Granted Moyes isn't cut out for the job, but I think those at the top are more to blame than he is. They did hire him afterall, and tbf, the squad was in need of a major overhaul and re-build when Fergie was still there, with most of the cracks being papered over. It's just that Fergie was brilliance that could get 200% out of a team that was maybe capable of only 60-70% in reality under anyone else.

I wouldn't have hired him either but this was Ferguson's call 100%. No idea why they gave him that power though.

 

[kit1982]

Draw was a fair result. Everton deserved what they got, they were immense in the first half. This is one of the reasons why I can't see us winning anything come May next year. We still can't seem to get the job done when we're not playing particularly well or need to grind out a result.

I'm not expecting anything out of our next two league games. Sure we'll probably give it a good try, but I reckon we'll come away from both empty handed.

I think you're being abit harsh on your good selves there. For all Everton being immense in the first half Woj didn't have a save to make and you carved them open twice. Even in the 2nd half it's only really abit of individual brilliance that's pegged you back...I mean how many shots on target did they actually have? You weren't at 100% but in fairness you got a decent result against a side who have beaten United and Chelsea and drew with Liverpool.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't think a transfer window is going to solve United's problems. I mean, look at what Moyes spent in the last one.

 

[Iceman]

I think you're being abit harsh on your good selves there. For all Everton being immense in the first half Woj didn't have a save to make and you carved them open twice. Even in the 2nd half it's only really abit of individual brilliance that's pegged you back...I mean how many shots on target did they actually have? You weren't at 100% but in fairness you got a decent result against a side who have beaten United and Chelsea and drew with Liverpool.

Yeah, & Everton have only lost once in the league so far (less than Arsenal!) as we approach halfway. Very hard team to beat. If they added some real cutting attacking players who knows what they could do. Barkley was impressive, haven't really see him play much before.

 

[Darthphere]

Can we take a moment to recognize the greatness that is Tony Pulis? Dude has Marouane Chamakh playing like Didier Drogba.

 

[Iceman]

My mate is a hardcore Palace fan and we've been ripping on him all season. I can't believe how quickly Pulis has got results. A few weeks ago I would have said rock bottom. Like not only no chance of staying up but probably a big gap between them and 19th. What a turnaround!

 

[kit1982]

Can we take a moment to recognize the greatness that is Tony Pulis? Dude has Marouane Chamakh playing like Didier Drogba.

There's always time! I'm just awaiting till he overtakes Mark Hughes' pale imitation of Stoke!

 

[Hunter Rider]

Everton definitely deserved the point. Now Arsenal have to try not to lose the next 2 games. I really think they can win the league just by getting almost maximum points against the bottom 11 teams (close to 60 points), a mixture of wins, draws and losses against 4th-9th (another 18 points) and draws against City & Chelsea (a couple more points to take them to about 80 points total). City & Chelsea still aren't getting into a consistent title rhythm away from home.

I think Arsenal can win it as well, although I understand VP being cautious. I agree that getting draws from the next two games will be a big step in the right direction, just avoiding defeat in them is enough as Arsenal look like they can polish off the lower half teams better than anyone else this season.

The situation is worse than the pre-appointment Moyes-detractors would have predicted. But if the board buy the right players that are available that is still good for the club with or without Moyes. You just have to hope that those who are responsible for making the decision on how long/whether he stays are competent and can attribute fairly what part of any resurgence due to top new players is down to Moyes and what part is down to just buying top players. That said Moyes has inherited a team with a reputation and recent history way above the talent of the actual squad. For all Fergie's talk of leaving the place in excellent shape, he really didn't from a squad point of view. Moyes is to blame for the current situation but at least 30% of the blame is also just to do with the weak squad. Moyes has kept Rooney where many others would have let him go. That is at least one successful managerial maneuver for this season (particularly given their history), even if he is sold next summer (at a better price than they likely would have got last year).

I agree that the squad was severely overrated, Fergie got miracles out of it IMO and what is really there is starting to be exposed, but Moyes seems to have zapped their will away as well. I think when you want to attract a top manger you need to give him a big budget to work with, we wont be able to do that if we allow Moyes to spend huge first in the hope he can salvage things.

Probably get some heat from this, but I think Martinez would have been a good shout for the United job.

Can you imagine the flack that would have came if we had brought in a manager who had just been relegated? I honestly feel Martinez is a much more modern and progressive coach than Moyes and long term may well have been a better pick, but neither were what we needed.

I don't think a transfer window is going to solve United's problems. I mean, look at what Moyes spent in the last one.

Exactly, I think he's lost the players which wont be repaired by spending money.

 

[Van Petrol]

I wouldn't have hired him either but this was Ferguson's call 100%. No idea why they gave him that power though.

I guess because he'd earned the respect and power stroke to be given the chance to make such a call.

I think you're being abit harsh on your good selves there. For all Everton being immense in the first half Woj didn't have a save to make and you carved them open twice. Even in the 2nd half it's only really abit of individual brilliance that's pegged you back...I mean how many shots on target did they actually have? You weren't at 100% but in fairness you got a decent result against a side who have beaten United and Chelsea and drew with Liverpool.

Maybe I am, but I've seen us have the potential to do things before only for us to screw it up royally. I don't really see anything to prove otherwise to me this time around. It's still early, we've still got a long way to go and quite frankly I don't think we've got the bottle to last the distance.

Can we take a moment to recognize the greatness that is Tony Pulis? Dude has Marouane Chamakh playing like Didier Drogba.

It seems like a perfect fit. Chamakh is more accustomed at using his head rather than his feet. I kinda' knew he could flourish under a manager like Pulis.

Can you imagine the flack that would have came if we had brought in a manager who had just been relegated? I honestly feel Martinez is a much more modern and progressive coach than Moyes and long term may well have been a better pick, but neither were what we needed.

Oh absolutely, I agree. My comment was just meant to be in comparison/contrast to Moyes right now.