The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]477603[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]474001[/split]

 

[kit1982]

Hang on, if Arsenal paid their players as well as their manager no-one would have ever dreamt of leaving the Emirates.

As for fringe players you can make that argument for every player who sits on the bench regularly for a Premier League club, they could quite easily look to leave, maybe even drop a division but they're desperate to have the status (and money) of "Premier League player" on their CV. Hence why wages in the Championship have rocketed.

 

[Iceman]

Manager's just one guy though rather than 30 odd. City's model has already got them a £50m fine with more work to be done to correct course. The wages some of their players get aren't market rates or merely very good rates, just silly money so that the decision becomes all about money. And any club not backed by a billionaire can't match without irresponsibly putting their business model at risk. I'm glad FFP actually has a bit more to it than we might have thought although I need to see what happens with PSG before I give it any real praise.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Luis Enrique is about to be confirmed as Barcelona manager on an initial 2 year deal.

Has managed Barcelona B as well as Roma.

 

[Two-Face]

I'm delighted Van Gaal as Man Utd manager! I hope we sign world class players in the summer and I will be watching Holland matches at the WC.

My favourite Giggsy moment is when he scored against Arsenal in the FA Cup semi-final replay. Anyway, i wish Giggsy played World Cup knock stage for his country oh well. Club legend for Man Utd.

 

[kit1982]

Manager's just one guy though rather than 30 odd. City's model has already got them a £50m fine with more work to be done to correct course. The wages some of their players get aren't market rates or merely very good rates, just silly money so that the decision becomes all about money. And any club not backed by a billionaire can't match without irresponsibly putting their business model at risk. I'm glad FFP actually has a bit more to it than we might have thought although I need to see what happens with PSG before I give it any real praise.

Aye and Wengers worth every penny of that £8 million a year (4th highest in the world), 1 trophy in 9 years and all that and I'm sure the chief exec will get another pay rise paid for by the Emirates faithful and their most expensive in the league season tickets. Arsenal have been taking their fans for a ride for the past few years and I'm still shocked by how much of a pat on the back Wenger gets for it. At least Ashley's honest about Newcastle being his cash cow and even Ken Bates had the good grace to call the regulars at Elland Road morons!

FFP in the long run combined with this ridiculous TV money will benefit the big guns and mean we won't be seeing another Fulham or Wigan rising through the ranks from nowhere. Losing those sorts of stories for a £50 million fine and losing a whole 4 players from a Champions League squad doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Hang on, if Arsenal paid their players as well as their manager no-one would have ever dreamt of leaving the Emirates.

As for fringe players you can make that argument for every player who sits on the bench regularly for a Premier League club, they could quite easily look to leave, maybe even drop a division but they're desperate to have the status (and money) of "Premier League player" on their CV. Hence why wages in the Championship have rocketed.

Good points here. Nasri's still a knob though. t:

Also, glad to see Van Gaal finally announced, thought United would drag their feet and cock that up as well, with the way things were "progressing" recently. Sad to see Giggs end his career, but great to see he'll be Van Gaal's no.2.

Now I want to see us actually bring some new players in as well. In the positions we need and players who'll improve us, that is.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Van Gaal was not my first choice but hopefully he can get us back to playing some exciting football and modernize our system.

I think Giggs made the right choice to retire and focus on his new assistant manager role, although I am concerned about that call as I worry what the intentions are. It's been a privelege to witness hos entire career, a true United legend and one of the best wingers I've ever seen. Thanks Giggsy.

 

[Dr Lee]

Doubt I'll see another player like him in my lifetime. The sheer number of trophies he's picked up over the years is astounding.

 

[Grommers]

Wouldn't scholes have an identical amount? :/

 

[Iceman]

Aye and Wengers worth every penny of that £8 million a year (4th highest in the world), 1 trophy in 9 years and all that and I'm sure the chief exec will get another pay rise paid for by the Emirates faithful and their most expensive in the league season tickets. Arsenal have been taking their fans for a ride for the past few years and I'm still shocked by how much of a pat on the back Wenger gets for it. At least Ashley's honest about Newcastle being his cash cow and even Ken Bates had the good grace to call the regulars at Elland Road morons!

FFP in the long run combined with this ridiculous TV money will benefit the big guns and mean we won't be seeing another Fulham or Wigan rising through the ranks from nowhere. Losing those sorts of stories for a £50 million fine and losing a whole 4 players from a Champions League squad doesn't seem worth it to me.

Wenger might not be worth it for many fans after not winning a trophy for a hell of a long time but to management he's got to be near the top for operating a club of that size almost without a transfer deficit over such a long time (will likely change from Ozil onwards). From a purely financial viewpoint he's paid for his own wages with his transfer market dealings (including frequent transfer profits on young players that he developed and vastly improved) and getting into the CL every season for nearly 20 years (with Utd out at the 1st change of management, Arsenal are the only club to do that every year since he started).

Arsenal have never been no.1 on resources. 2nd to Utd all these years and later also overtaken by Chelsea and now City. The main reason anyone would expect them to be able to compete now with teams with much more resources and Liverpool who must be around the same level or not too far behind is because they also have a wad of cash now. And that's due to his financial prudence enabling them to survive the stadium repayment period without dropping out of the CL at all or blowing a fortune on transfers (unlike nearly every other manager at a big club). His stubborn streak in avoiding big money transfers even when obviously needed has been a definite weakness that has cost them in recent years but overall I don't know of many managers I would want to replace him with. If he's 4th best paid I guess there are a few who deserve more, but it's only worth replacing a guy who is still doing ok even if not winning titles if you can guarantee that the next guy will be better. There's not many other managers I think could walk in and guarantee Arsenal a league title in the next 3 or 4 years given the increased competition. And the next management level down, a Moyes can take a side that's dominated for nearly a quarter of a century straight from 1st to 7th in one season. t:

The management are always going to be bothered about money 1st and that's their job to worry about that. Trophies to them are only a goal because they help make money, unless they happen to already be supporters before they take the job, but even then it becomes a 2nd priority. The blame can go to them but I think most people would act like that if they had that job. I guess you can't say Ashley & Bates aren't honest at least.

As for FFP it will mean the bigger clubs that generate more revenue will on average do better long run and that could limit smaller clubs but really it's mainly excluding the chance of a rich owner transforming them, nothing to stop them being well run and being more efficient with their allocated cash. FFP should be good for Leeds though right? You're a much bigger club than most of those around you.

 

[Iceman]

Van Gaal was not my first choice but hopefully he can get us back to playing some exciting football and modernize our system.

I think Giggs made the right choice to retire and focus on his new assistant manager role, although I am concerned about that call as I worry what the intentions are. It's been a privelege to witness hos entire career, a true United legend and one of the best wingers I've ever seen. Thanks Giggsy.

Should make next season more interesting. At least you should challenge for 4th. And now if you spend a couple of hundred million it's not going to be on Moyes' players.

Giggs was pretty close to 1000 games. He should have just brought himself on in the last minute of games when they were already at least 2 goals up. t: What do you mean when you say you're worried about the intentions?

 

[DeadPresident]

Luis Enrique is about to be confirmed as Barcelona manager on an initial 2 year deal.

Has managed Barcelona B as well as Roma.

Yep. Been looking through Guillem Ballague's tweets and apparently Afellay, Sergi Roberto, Isaac Cuenca and Tello have been told they can find new clubs...some clubs are about to gain decent players. Allegedly Barcelona will also listen to offers for Mascherano, Song and Alexis Sanchez.

Not sure getting rid of 3 promising youth players and one of their top scorers is exactly advisable...but what do I know.

 

[kit1982]

Wenger might not be worth it for many fans after not winning a trophy for a hell of a long time but to management he's got to be near the top for operating a club of that size almost without a transfer deficit over such a long time (will likely change from Ozil onwards). From a purely financial viewpoint he's paid for his own wages with his transfer market dealings (including frequent transfer profits on young players that he developed and vastly improved) and getting into the CL every season for nearly 20 years (with Utd out at the 1st change of management, Arsenal are the only club to do that every year since he started).

Arsenal have never been no.1 on resources. 2nd to Utd all these years and later also overtaken by Chelsea and now City. The main reason anyone would expect them to be able to compete now with teams with much more resources and Liverpool who must be around the same level or not too far behind is because they also have a wad of cash now. And that's due to his financial prudence enabling them to survive the stadium repayment period without dropping out of the CL at all or blowing a fortune on transfers (unlike nearly every other manager at a big club). His stubborn streak in avoiding big money transfers even when obviously needed has been a definite weakness that has cost them in recent years but overall I don't know of many managers I would want to replace him with. If he's 4th best paid I guess there are a few who deserve more, but it's only worth replacing a guy who is still doing ok even if not winning titles if you can guarantee that the next guy will be better. There's not many other managers I think could walk in and guarantee Arsenal a league title in the next 3 or 4 years given the increased competition. And the next management level down, a Moyes can take a side that's dominated for nearly a quarter of a century straight from 1st to 7th in one season. t:

The management are always going to be bothered about money 1st and that's their job to worry about that. Trophies to them are only a goal because they help make money, unless they happen to already be supporters before they take the job, but even then it becomes a 2nd priority. The blame can go to them but I think most people would act like that if they had that job. I guess you can't say Ashley & Bates aren't honest at least.

As for FFP it will mean the bigger clubs that generate more revenue will on average do better long run and that could limit smaller clubs but really it's mainly excluding the chance of a rich owner transforming them, nothing to stop them being well run and being more efficient with their allocated cash. FFP should be good for Leeds though right? You're a much bigger club than most of those around you.

Yeh it'll benefit us to a point, we'll be better off than say Yeovil but someone like Palace who will make at least £120 million in PL TV money alone for the next 2 years, how is anyone outside of the PL meant to be able to match that? You say nothing to stop a smaller club doing it by being well run, I'd say that TV money will it's no coincidence the last few smaller clubs to climb from non-league to league 1 such as Crawley and Fleetwood have done so on the back of a sugar daddy.

As for Wenger and Arsenal, everything at that club is within the top 4 in Europe....apart from the playing squad which is way below, you don't see that as a problem? Charging fans thousands of pounds for season tickets to watch a side whose ambition is the top 4 and not much else? Since 2005 I think Liverpool have finished 2nd more times than Arsenal and I believe they've also only finished 3rd more or as many times in that period.... it really doesn't add up.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Should make next season more interesting. At least you should challenge for 4th. And now if you spend a couple of hundred million it's not going to be on Moyes' players.

Giggs was pretty close to 1000 games. He should have just brought himself on in the last minute of games when they were already at least 2 goals up. t: What do you mean when you say you're worried about the intentions?

Top 4 is the plan for sure, anything less will be seen as a disaster, but I am glad LvG will be buying the players and not Moyes.

I wish Giggs had managed to score that free kick against Hull and finish off by scoring in every PL season. My worry is that LvG has been chosen as short term to steady the ship and pass the torch to Giggs, like we are determined to make Giggs manager which I don't want.

 

[kit1982]

The whole push for the class of '92 has been a bit strong for my liking, Nicky Butt's more popular now than he ever was as a player!

 

[Iceman]

Yeh it'll benefit us to a point, we'll be better off than say Yeovil but someone like Palace who will make at least £120 million in PL TV money alone for the next 2 years, how is anyone outside of the PL meant to be able to match that? You say nothing to stop a smaller club doing it by being well run, I'd say that TV money will it's no coincidence the last few smaller clubs to climb from non-league to league 1 such as Crawley and Fleetwood have done so on the back of a sugar daddy.

As for Wenger and Arsenal, everything at that club is within the top 4 in Europe....apart from the playing squad which is way below, you don't see that as a problem? Charging fans thousands of pounds for season tickets to watch a side whose ambition is the top 4 and not much else? Since 2005 I think Liverpool have finished 2nd more times than Arsenal and I believe they've also only finished 3rd more or as many times in that period.... it really doesn't add up.

Oh if you're talking about season ticket prices I agree. City have won the title and League Cup and threatened to win more for one of the cheapest season tickets in the league while Arsenal charge a multiple of that for one FA Cup in almost a decade. But from the board's view Wenger is a dream, titles or not. And he's not at fault for accepting a big money deal. The board can certainly be blamed for these issues of being top 4 in everything bar playing squad and titles but then what would you expect from guys who are charged with running the financial interests of the club above all else? When they set prices they are thinking about setting them to maximise revenue, not be nice to loyal fans, and it's their job to do that. Can understand fans being utterly pissed off with it though.

Arsenal are in much better shape than if a different manager had managed the stadium repayment era and won them a couple of league titles over his barren period but had to buy big and shell out City style wages to do so and not generated any profits himself through developing players, or even fell out of the CL a couple of times. They'd have the titles but the ongoing spectre of debt would mean that the long term future of the club would be compromised and it would be very difficult to compete with the top clubs going forward, especially without FFP. If it weren't for the skewing factor of sugar daddies at his competitors who have the equivalent of all Wenger's budgeting attempts for free, his work would have been even more beneficial. Leeds fans know what can happen when looking for short term glory with irresponsible financial management. Wouldn't you rather have had a Wenger and given up the good years & the CL semi-final for being a long term PL team now?


I've not really followed non league football but didn't know even non league clubs have sugar daddies now. How much do you need to be one of those, a tenner? t: I just don't think it really counts as doing it if the reason you've done it is some guy throwing millions at your club while most of your competition are having to stay within their tiny budgets. Maybe the problem is with the share of TV and other money going to the top rather than FFP.

Top 4 is the plan for sure, anything less will be seen as a disaster, but I am glad LvG will be buying the players and not Moyes.

I wish Giggs had managed to score that free kick against Hull and finish off by scoring in every PL season. My worry is that LvG has been chosen as short term to steady the ship and pass the torch to Giggs, like we are determined to make Giggs manager which I don't want.

Oh, yeah I hope that's not true. It should be a trial if anything. He's a club legend and may go on to become a top manager but noone knows yet if he has what it takes. We knew Moyes was capable of keeping a club like Everton around the 7th place mark. We don't even know if Giggs is of that calibre yet, never mind worthy of being long term Utd boss.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

Van Gaal was not my first choice but hopefully he can get us back to playing some exciting football and modernize our system.

I think Giggs made the right choice to retire and focus on his new assistant manager role, although I am concerned about that call as I worry what the intentions are. It's been a privelege to witness hos entire career, a true United legend and one of the best wingers I've ever seen. Thanks Giggsy.

agreed the man is a legend but i really dont think he should be handed the keys to the kingdom so easily, even after 3 years as a #2.


but am i being petty in that there will always be that blip on him ending his career on a downer because of moyes and never getting a goal last season

 

[Van Petrol]

Adrian Durham believes we don't deserve Aaron Ramsey.

 

[kit1982]

Arsenal are in much better shape than if a different manager had managed the stadium repayment era and won them a couple of league titles over his barren period but had to buy big and shell out City style wages to do so and not generated any profits himself through developing players, or even fell out of the CL a couple of times. They'd have the titles but the ongoing spectre of debt would mean that the long term future of the club would be compromised and it would be very difficult to compete with the top clubs going forward, especially without FFP. If it weren't for the skewing factor of sugar daddies at his competitors who have the equivalent of all Wenger's budgeting attempts for free, his work would have been even more beneficial. Leeds fans know what can happen when looking for short term glory with irresponsible financial management. Wouldn't you rather have had a Wenger and given up the good years & the CL semi-final for being a long term PL team now?


I've not really followed non league football but didn't know even non league clubs have sugar daddies now. How much do you need to be one of those, a tenner? t: I just don't think it really counts as doing it if the reason you've done it is some guy throwing millions at your club while most of your competition are having to stay within their tiny budgets. Maybe the problem is with the share of TV and other money going to the top rather than FFP.

From the way the FA Cup win was celebrated I'm pretty sure they'd prefer the titles! As for would I take a Wenger? Look at your clubs fans, Ashley wants you to be financially stable, he doesn't want to compete for Europe or trophies, he just wants a midtable Premier League club year in year out.... are you happy with that? It's as I said about fringe players too many just want to exist in the Premier League, it's the same with clubs now. I love watching the PL brand don't get me wrong, but it's whole existence is based around excess for the elite, sugar daddies are just a symptom of that.

VP - Lol good old Durham with his Arsenal baiting! He's an odd one as if you listen to him talk about the club as a whole (talking with the away day fans, even when he gets Jenkinson or the Ox on the phone) it's pretty clear he has a lot of time for you lot, but I guess winding you up pays the bils!

 

[Fallen Angel]

Adrian Durham believes we don't deserve Aaron Ramsey.

why are you even listening to that idiot? He say's controversial things so people phone in on his crappy station. 5 Live is so much better.

 

[Iceman]

Adrian Durham believes we don't deserve Aaron Ramsey.

Why not? lol

agreed the man is a legend but i really dont think he should be handed the keys to the kingdom so easily, even after 3 years as a #2.


but am i being petty in that there will always be that blip on him ending his career on a downer because of moyes and never getting a goal last season

I never thought that record was a big deal. Getting close to 1,000 appearances and being a top player with all his titles and actual total goals scored is unbelievable. But that record. I mean if he was a striker who took penalties he'd get one goal a season even as a cripple. t: The fact that he was making a lot of appearances in those seasons shows how regarded a player he was even in his later years, much more so than the fact that he eventually rolled one in every season.

Even after 40 years as a no.2 he needs to be observed and someone needs to judge if he has what it takes rather than automatically promote. Many good and experienced no.1s aren't up to the Utd no.1 job.

 

[Van Petrol]

VP - Lol good old Durham with his Arsenal baiting! He's an odd one as if you listen to him talk about the club as a whole (talking with the away day fans, even when he gets Jenkinson or the Ox on the phone) it's pretty clear he has a lot of time for you lot, but I guess winding you up pays the bils!

why are you even listening to that idiot? He say's controversial things so people phone in on his crappy station. 5 Live is so much better.

Why not? lol

Lol, I had no idea who he was until I read that comment.

 

[kit1982]

why are you even listening to that idiot? He say's controversial things so people phone in on his crappy station. 5 Live is so much better.

But 5 Live don't talk wall to wall football 24/7! In terms of match analysis 5 Live is miles ahead, but Durham apart Talksports not actually that bad.