The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]479553[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]477603[/split]

 

[Iceman]

Di Maria to Utd? Much chance of that? Would fans want him? (ignoring his performance against Switzerland!)

 

[BlackFox]

Di Maria to Utd? Much chance of that? Would fans want him? (ignoring his performance against Switzerland!)

Yeah best to do that probably t:

I dont know about Di Maria, ive seen as many bad as good games from him, not consistant enough for me, another Nani, maybe a bit better but another player who gets into good positions but then his final ball is lacking at vital times.

Is he better than what we have, yeah probably, but the fact he plays with either Messi or Ronaldo in his teams makes him look better than what he is.

 

[Two-Face]

He's been great in the CL mayches I seen but if he plays like he did against Swiss then I wouldn't want him.

 

[BlackFox]

He's been great in the CL mayches I seen but if he plays like he did against Swiss then I wouldn't want him.

Yeah that pretty much sums up how I've seen him. Man of the Match in the CL final.......................fell over the ball in the WC.

 

[DeadPresident]

So, in essence, do you believe Neymar is overhyped as well? A case could be made that both are carrying their squads with their 'golden' boots.

To a degree yeah. Both have expectations placed on them that may be higher than they're capable of achieving. Irrespective of whether either of them score hat tricks tomorrow and end up winning the WC, they're 22 years old and need to play how they've been playing for at least 6 more years to be considered consistent. I do believe Neymar is better, their stats are almost identical from last season but Neymar plays in a more competitive league, and he isn't his team's best player and opportunities don't always fall to him to finish. However whatever differences between the two are they aren't big, they're essentially in the same boat, and on the same level. I believe Neymar's eventual progression would be better than Rodriguez but I could very well be wrong.

£70 million is a lot to ask for, especially since he's very similar to Isco but there's minor differences in their game that make them attractive in various other schemes. Isco is more of an Attacking Midfielder and James is more of a Winger. However, if I were to pick one, as tempting as Rodriguez is, I'd go with Isco simply because he's saved our asses several times against squads like Barca and Bayern. So he's proven already.

Di Maria is class and to unload him off to another club at this point in his career would be irresponsible in my opinion. I want for us to keep him for another 2-3 years but I don't know if Angel truly wants to stay or not. Then again, these are basically rumors. Two days ago, James would fetch for £40 million and a month ago Di Maria was the one of the safest guys in our club (man of the match at the UEFA CL Final). Who knows how much of these talks are legit.

Again, if it were up to me, I'd leave James where he is now and try my damnest to sign Pogba. I believe the central position in our midfield is where we need the most help. Illarramendi is a question mark (despite putting up some decent numbers), Khedira is too slow for our counter attack style and Alonso is getting old. If we can get Kroos for £25-30 million too, then great. That'll add to our depth but we need a back up Forward/Striker a lot more than another Winger.

70m is absolute stupidity. 10m less than Ronaldo went for at his peak and 10m less than Suarez is supposedly going for now? Rodriguez doesn't deserve a price tag associated with Ballon d'Or contenders, and neither did Bale for that matter. Bale being priced anywhere near Ronaldo is a farce, I don't believe Bale will ever achieve the level of quality or finishing proficiency Ronaldo has at Madrid and had at United. Madrid would have to be insanely confident or ridiculously sure of their numbers in terms of jersey sales to drop 70m on Rodriguez. Especially when they have a better player in Isco already warming their bench.

I'd be wary of Pogba. He seems to have a personality similar to Ibrahimovic. Even the shiny dressing room and hallowed halls of the Bernabeu can only handle so many egos. I'd like to see his reaction if Ronaldo or Sergio Ramos berate him for not releasing a pass early enough or blazing a cross into the stands. Maybe he's got what it takes to step up, but again, better players than him haven't managed to make the grade at Madrid. He suits an Italian club where being an ***hole is seen as "quirky", but at Madrid he'll have to toe the Castilian line and smile for the cameras.

 

[Iceman]

If you're a super rich club a player performing amazingly is more important than whether you've good value for him. FFP is the only opposing factor really. Ronaldo and Messi might be worth say £120m but when you have a lot more than that to spend they are worth even more as there is noone better you can buy however much money you have.

 

[B]

Di Maria to Utd? Much chance of that? Would fans want him? (ignoring his performance against Switzerland!)

Yes & no. Yes because he's better than any wide option we have at the club & no because I don't feel he's incredibly versatile, he's very much left footed, his form is quite Nani esque at times & also I don't think he's worth £40m. He has impressive statistics at Real Madrid having said that.

I'd actually rather see us try for Alexis than Di Maria because I rate him more.

 

[Kaleb]

not sure how reliable this is but anyhoo

BREAKING from @ellarguero : #LFC and #FCB reach an agreement for 90 million Euros #SUAREZ

 

[Iceman]

Yes & no. Yes because he's better than any wide option we have at the club & no because I don't feel he's incredibly versatile, he's very much left footed, his form is quite Nani esque at times & also I don't think he's worth £40m. He has impressive statistics at Real Madrid having said that.

I'd actually rather see us try for Alexis than Di Maria because I rate him more.

I prefer Sanchez too. I guess Di Maria would be a good medium term option if you could get him on the cheap and otherwise you'd probably be looking to upgrade again in a few years.

not sure how reliable this is but anyhoo

BREAKING from @ellarguero : #LFC and #FCB reach an agreement for 90 million Euros #SUAREZ

Even if not I expect something like that very soon. That price in euros seems about right. I'd be very surprised if this doesn't go through as Liverpool have been very co-operative for a selling club. I hope they get a top striker as replacement this summer and have plenty of change for strengthening in other areas.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

70m is absolute stupidity. 10m less than Ronaldo went for at his peak and 10m less than Suarez is supposedly going for now? Rodriguez doesn't deserve a price tag associated with Ballon d'Or contenders, and neither did Bale for that matter. Bale being priced anywhere near Ronaldo is a farce, I don't believe Bale will ever achieve the level of quality or finishing proficiency Ronaldo has at Madrid and had at United. Madrid would have to be insanely confident or ridiculously sure of their numbers in terms of jersey sales to drop 70m on Rodriguez. Especially when they have a better player in Isco already warming their bench.

Bale is a perfect example. I berated the move simply because I didn't see what Gareth was doing at the EPL was prolific enough to warrant that big of a contract. In addition, we paid that much money to a 'Plan B' type of player. We were originally targeting Neymar that summer. That said, Bale proved to be a clutch player for us. Is he worth the contract he signed? No, but I can't complain nowadays with some of stuff he pulled against Barca and Atletico. You can't get more clutch than Bale.

I definitely don't want James for a £70 million deal. As talented as he is he's not the next CR7 or Messi. If we could get him for £40 million then I'll reconsider but like you said we already got Isco awaiting to take over the world. Sometimes we Real fans forget who the hell is sitting on our bench.

I'd be wary of Pogba. He seems to have a personality similar to Ibrahimovic. Even the shiny dressing room and hallowed halls of the Bernabeu can only handle so many egos. I'd like to see his reaction if Ronaldo or Sergio Ramos berate him for not releasing a pass early enough or blazing a cross into the stands. Maybe he's got what it takes to step up, but again, better players than him haven't managed to make the grade at Madrid. He suits an Italian club where being an ***hole is seen as "quirky", but at Madrid he'll have to toe the Castilian line and smile for the cameras.

Oh, the fear is there. I don't know who described Pogba's personality but the phrase used was 'self-entitled with rapper lifestyle and attitude'. Paul has character concerns but god dammit he's so talented. Pogba has the potential to surpass Vidal in 2-3 years as the best box midfielder in the world. He's worth the risk and headaches in my opinion. At least he's not a biter and racist.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Hmmm, so something along the lines of Carvalho in front of the back 4 and Herrera + Vidal in the middle?

Yeah that would be my preference but I conceded it's near impossible due to the Rooney contract in particular.

Yeah, fair enough. And Mata is more than capable of playing the same role as Kagawa, and doing it slightly more successfully. I like how Kagawa plays, I feel sorry for him because I feel like he suffered under Moyes, I really hope wherever he moves to if he goes will bring out in him what Dortmund did.

I'm a fan of Kagawa myself, I was really pleased when we signed him as I thought he could provide the type of creativity in attack that Silva does for City but so far it hasn't clicked. Maybe LvG can turn him around though, I imagine he is staying so lets hope.

I get where you're coming from, his last two years have been shocking in terms of final ball and end product. In some games his positioning and tracking back are also suspect. He's also not young anymore, and is maybe beyond the point of coming back into his previous vein of form. With Young, Nani and Valencia being below the necessary quality and with Shaw and Rafael likely being our full back pairing, is it maybe time for United to drop playing with wingers all together? I mean if the formation is closer to a 4-1-2-1-2 like that Christmas tree formation that was so big a few years back that would solidify the midfield quite well. That way you have a holder, 2 CM's patrolling the middle, a #10 capable of creating and RvP/Rooney up top?

I've seen quite a few United fans favour this idea and it might well work, Mata would get the #10 role and Carrick might still be able to play as the holder if we got another box to box CM to partner Herrera in front of him and provide a shield for him, similar to how Juve set up to essentially create an NFL Quarterback pocket around Pirlo. The biggest issue would be Januzaj's game time becoming limited.

I think that's exactly what Wenger has in mind. It certainly corresponds with the talk previously, that it ould be either Balotelli, or Sanchez we'd look to bring in, not both.

Man I have to say that while I am disappointed we are not getting Sanchez I'd love to see how this worked, if Wenger could turn him into a 25 goal a season player it would be his best bit of management since he converted Henry from a winger into a striker.

Agreed. Yeah, I know what you mean, we've experienced that type of thing numerous times.

Anything quite like the Pogba one though mate? I mean gone for free and now worth £50-60M and rated as the best young CM in the world?

 

[DeadPresident]

Bale is a perfect example. I berated the move simply because I didn't see what Gareth was doing at the EPL was prolific enough to warrant that big of a contract. In addition, we paid that much money to a 'Plan B' type of player. We were originally targeting Neymar that summer. That said, Bale proved to be a clutch player for us. Is he worth the contract he signed? No, but I can't complain nowadays with some of stuff he pulled against Barca and Atletico. You can't get more clutch than Bale.

I definitely don't want James for a £70 million deal. As talented as he is he's not the next CR7 or Messi. If we could get him for £40 million then I'll reconsider but like you said we already got Isco awaiting to take over the world. Sometimes we Real fans forget who the hell is sitting on our bench.

Yeah, Bale definitely ended up scoring in some important games. Maybe not as often as he would've liked, but he made those goals count for everything when he did put them in.

Oh, the fear is there. I don't know who described Pogba's personality but the phrase used was 'self-entitled with rapper lifestyle and attitude'. Paul has character concerns but god dammit he's so talented. Pogba has the potential to surpass Vidal in 2-3 years as the best box midfielder in the world. He's worth the risk and headaches in my opinion. At least he's not a biter and racist.

He strikes me as the French Balotelli, his talent his evident but I think he'd have to come with his own personal team of minders and handlers to decrease his off field antics to the point where Madrid wouldn't be embarrassed on a weekly basis.

Bold: I never thought I'd have to think of those as pros that even need to be mentioned

I'm a fan of Kagawa myself, I was really pleased when we signed him as I thought he could provide the type of creativity in attack that Silva does for City but so far it hasn't clicked. Maybe LvG can turn him around though, I imagine he is staying so lets hope.

Yeah it doesn't seem like his departure is on the cards. I feel like a lot of big things for a few clubs are hinging on the Suarez deal. If it comes off Barcelona will need to recoup the money, possibly moving Sanchez along. If Sanchez insists on Juventus and his valuation of 35m is correct, they might be more encouraged to move Vidal along in order to finance the Sanchez deal and that may open the door for United to move in.

It's like transfer dominos. I hope there's movement soon.

I've seen quite a few United fans favour this idea and it might well work, Mata would get the #10 role and Carrick might still be able to play as the holder if we got another box to box CM to partner Herrera in front of him and provide a shield for him, similar to how Juve set up to essentially create an NFL Quarterback pocket around Pirlo. The biggest issue would be Januzaj's game time becoming limited.

Yeah, very good way of describing it. Carrick's passing range is always valuable, but it became diluted over the last season because of the crappy style. If he didn't have to concern himself with too many defensive responsibilities beyond occasionally intercepting long balls he could flourish.

On the Januzaj score, as well as he did on the wing (and this may be reaching) I think he deserves a shot up top or as a #10 if Mata isn't fit or is being rested. He played in a number of forward positions for the reserves, he might be able to cut it in the first team as well. But I agree, if United dispenses with wingers all together his development becomes a serious conundrum.

 

[B]

Anything quite like the Pogba one though mate? I mean gone for free and now worth £50-60M and rated as the best young CM in the world?

Not a chance, not at the moment anyway. People were ranting & raving about him in the build up to the Germany game about how he has had a superb World Cup & looks like a star of the future.

The latter of that might be very accurate, and I happen to think he will be eventually, but Germany was France's first legitimate test in this World Cup with a strong midfield & today it showed why he isn't a top tier midfielder, currently anyway. Frustrating game for him, couldn't impose himself & hardly had a kick, the game just past him by completely.

If he's worth £50m-£60m now then how much would Juventus's more important & more developed midfielders be worth such as Vidal, Pirlo & even Marchisio?

If Manchester United for example were interested in taking him back, something I would be happy to accept, I wouldn't be happy if we paid £50m or even £40m for him in the same way I'm not happy we paid £30m for Shaw because to me, spending that type of money you want a player who is ready now, almost fully developed or about to hit their peak years. However with Pogba & especially Shaw, you are investing a large chunk of money for a player that the reality is you probably won't see the best years out of until both are 24/25.. so you are talking in reality 2 contract signings away, by which time they could be ready to move on to other challenges.

 

[DeadPresident]

Pogba didn't do his value any favours with a ghost-like performance against Germany. I would have thought he'd give Schweinsteiger and Khedira a hard time but he was nowhere the entire game.

 

[Kaleb]

Debuchy confirms he is joining Arsenal on his Instagram.
http://instagram.com/p/qC_99tgT3O/?modal=true

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah it doesn't seem like his departure is on the cards. I feel like a lot of big things for a few clubs are hinging on the Suarez deal. If it comes off Barcelona will need to recoup the money, possibly moving Sanchez along. If Sanchez insists on Juventus and his valuation of 35m is correct, they might be more encouraged to move Vidal along in order to finance the Sanchez deal and that may open the door for United to move in.

It's like transfer dominos. I hope there's movement soon.

I think you are right, at the moment Suarez is like a giant log stuck in the transfer bowel, once Liverpool crap him out things should hopefully start to move more freely.

Yeah, very good way of describing it. Carrick's passing range is always valuable, but it became diluted over the last season because of the crappy style. If he didn't have to concern himself with too many defensive responsibilities beyond occasionally intercepting long balls he could flourish.

One reason to pause for thought on this though is that Carrick is 33 and was never top bracket, so whether LvG would put a lot of stock in setting up a system to favour him I don't know, of course he could do it if he plans for that to be how we play and will bring in a younger holding CM next summer and just use Carrick for one season.

On the Januzaj score, as well as he did on the wing (and this may be reaching) I think he deserves a shot up top or as a #10 if Mata isn't fit or is being rested. He played in a number of forward positions for the reserves, he might be able to cut it in the first team as well. But I agree, if United dispenses with wingers all together his development becomes a serious conundrum.

I'd definitely like to see us start to test Januzaj out as a #10 but at his age I think he will predominantly play on the wing, which of course would mean very limited game time in the system we have been discussing, something that could see him want to leave which would be a disaster.

Not a chance, not at the moment anyway. People were ranting & raving about him in the build up to the Germany game about how he has had a superb World Cup & looks like a star of the future.

The latter of that might be very accurate, and I happen to think he will be eventually, but Germany was France's first legitimate test in this World Cup with a strong midfield & today it showed why he isn't a top tier midfielder, currently anyway. Frustrating game for him, couldn't impose himself & hardly had a kick, the game just past him by completely.

If he's worth £50m-£60m now then how much would Juventus's more important & more developed midfielders be worth such as Vidal, Pirlo & even Marchisio?

If Manchester United for example were interested in taking him back, something I would be happy to accept, I wouldn't be happy if we paid £50m or even £40m for him in the same way I'm not happy we paid £30m for Shaw because to me, spending that type of money you want a player who is ready now, almost fully developed or about to hit their peak years. However with Pogba & especially Shaw, you are investing a large chunk of money for a player that the reality is you probably won't see the best years out of until both are 24/25.. so you are talking in reality 2 contract signings away, by which time they could be ready to move on to other challenges.

I agree with most of what you are saying mate but the market seemingly does not, just look at the fees players are going for in the last few years, even players most would consider decent as opposed to great.

Fergie was hung up on this as well, he wanted the market to bend to his will but it doesn't work that way, sometimes you just need to pay to play or get left behind.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The aftershocks from the Moyesquake are really being felt with the Sanchez mess, it's like he is still haunting us.

- No CL
- Shrek on a stupid contract so we have to play him
- Fellaini
- Mata

 

[Zeus]

Im feeling more and more positive about Sanchez coming to Arsenal now...I think Barca also needs to cash and Sanchez wants Arsenal over Liverpool and Juve. I think it happens at the same time as Suarez deal is coordinated

 

[Hunter Rider]

Transfer news/waffle for our clubs:

Arsenal - Debuchy seemingly a done deal, Sanchez looking very likely and Wenger wants Khedira.

Chelsea - Luis Felipe just a matter of time, Mourinho also wants Khedira.

Liverpool - Suarez sale likely completed next week, Lovren bid made and Huntelaar possibly on the way in. Shaqiri deal still on the cards.

Man City - Benatia or Mangala will be Kmpany's new CB partner next season, rumours last night of a bid for Barkley as well. Negredo wants to leave and go to Ateltico.

Man Utd - Journos's now saying we are only after 2 more, a CM and a CB, the latter of which will probably be Crockmaelen. LvG apparently happy with attacking options.

Real Madrid - Kroos, Luiz Gustavo and Falcao all hotly linked. Di Maria and Khedira on the way out.

Sorry, I couldn't find any Leeds or Newcastle transfer rumours.

 

[BlackFox]

The aftershocks from the Moyesquake are really being felt with the Sanchez mess, it's like he is still haunting us.

- No CL
- Shrek on a stupid contract so we have to play him
- Fellaini
- Mata

Towards the end of the season I though he was one of our better players, at least he has the class to make us better, would drop Shrek for him to be honest so he can play in his best position.

Everything else though I can only agree on.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Towards the end of the season I though he was one of our better players, at least he has the class to make us better, would drop Shrek for him to be honest so he can play in his best position.

Everything else though I can only agree on.

Mata is very talented but I think Moyes bought him to play as a #10 behind Shrek as a #9, with RvP being sold this summer. However things have changed and now we have two players who want to play in the same role and since we can't shift Shrek we might as well have saved the £37M we spent on Mata to use on a pacey wide player like Di Maria or Lucas.

 

[Two-Face]

Attacking wise I think we are fine Hunter.

Rooney
RVP
Welbeck
Javier H. (if he leaves then we may need to sign though)

 

[Zeus]

Di Maria with a muscle tear his transfer value must have dipped a bit...Wenger, where you at???