The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - Part 43

[DeadPresident]

Pogba is special and the midfield 3 is the axis the team is flourishing around, but I think we can fit in Mata or Mkhi at #10 if he was rested or such and not lose too much if it was only short term, but we definitely lack enough goal threat outside Ibra, and Carrick is irrepelaceable. We really need to get Martial firing, if he starts ripping it up on the left it would be a boost.

Yeah the midfield being fluid has completely changed how United play. Under Moyes and van Gaal the midfield was non-existent and then an afterthought respectively. Now the midfield is extremely robust and the entire game flows through them, and that 3 seems ideal. I do wish that Blind will get an opportunity in the #6 position at some stage but I don't see that happening. We're going to need a replacement for Carrick this summer, but I'm not sure who's available that offers his level of control.

On the wide forward score I hope Martial develops a bit more during this season. He's become very one dimensional, he always slows down play and tries to toast the full back and often it doesn't work. I think it's safe to say the Memphis experiment has failed, him and Schneiderlin will most likely be gone in January, so we'll need to start thinking of yet another wide forward to bring in. Hopefully Martial kicks on, I'd still like to see some games with a fully fit Mkhitaryan and a (hopefully) in form Martial out wide with Mata behind Ibra with the midfield 3 above.

I'm a little disappointed that it took United half the season to warm up, those Stoke, Burnley and Arsenal games could've easily been ground out wins instead of draws and it would've put United in a solid position now.

Top 2 get automatic promotion (although I really want 1st to get the Championship title as that's the only title we're likely to get for a while and it would make it worth having gone down for). Then 3rd to 6th go into the playoffs (3rd vs 6th and 4th vs 5th over 2 legs) with the winners of the first match ups going to the playoff final at Wembley. The winner of that goes through as the 3rd promoted team.

Oh wow okay, that's pretty exciting. So technically if they do exceptionally well in the playoffs then even 6th place could get promotion? That's a significant incentive to perform well then, considering how vital and massive all the PL money is.

 

[Iceman]

Oh wow okay, that's pretty exciting. So technically if they do exceptionally well in the playoffs then even 6th place could get promotion? That's a significant incentive to perform well then, considering how vital and massive all the PL money is.

Yes this is one reason why the championship and other lower leagues bring so many more teams into play as a team that recovers from relegation worries by stringing a few wins together is suddenly in the race for 6th and promotion! And you don't need to do exceptionally well to get promoted from 6th, you just need to beat the 2 teams in front of you which is the same thing that 3rd place has to do. So it's a big bummer to drop from 2nd to 3rd while 1st to 2nd isn't that bad apart from losing the championship title. The championship playoff final is probably the domestic game with the highest stakes.

 

[Zantera]

Wasn't it last season that Özil pretty much contributed points against all the top teams? I don't think Arsenal's problem yesterday had anything to do with him specifically (even if he was bad) because the whole team played terribly. When you have a defense and defensive midfield who can't get 2 passes right before the other team has the ball again, there's only so much the attacking players can do. One offside goal and an awful performance by Monreal (at the 2-1 goal) gave City the win.

What I find interesting is that City weren't really that great yesterday. I mean sure, 70/30 possession, but they didn't create much on that and just barely managed to beat Arsenal, who put in their worst performance this year. Had Arsenal just pulled out a Hull or Swansea performance they would have gotten a draw probably.

 

[DeadPresident]

Arsenal's problem has nothing to do with individual players, it has to do with the team's mentality and work ethic. Arsenal are a slick, fairweather team that will never dig deep and outwork the opposition to get a victory. They go to teams always doing the same thing, try and pass the ball into the net, when it works they look great AD when it fails they fall short, but from Wenger down to the individual players (particularly the likes of Girpud and Ozick) they're soft hearted players who don't want to leave sweat out on the pitch to dig out a victory.

Leicester City, a team now almost dragged into the relegation battle gave the blueprint to win the PL last season with a squad of acceptable players: Work harder than your opponents. Arsenal will never do that under Wenger. A few players like Sanchez, Coquelin, Bellerin and Xhaka work hard, but it's not a team mentality. Look at clubs like Madrid and Barcelona, even Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo and Bale track back and cover space and run themselves into the ground, that work ethic is necessary to achieve at the highest level.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Wasn't it last season that Özil pretty much contributed points against all the top teams? I don't think Arsenal's problem yesterday had anything to do with him specifically (even if he was bad) because the whole team played terribly. When you have a defense and defensive midfield who can't get 2 passes right before the other team has the ball again, there's only so much the attacking players can do. One offside goal and an awful performance by Monreal (at the 2-1 goal) gave City the win.

What I find interesting is that City weren't really that great yesterday. I mean sure, 70/30 possession, but they didn't create much on that and just barely managed to beat Arsenal, who put in their worst performance this year. Had Arsenal just pulled out a Hull or Swansea performance they would have gotten a draw probably.

Agreed about Ozil, I think his 'role' (or lack thereof) in Arsenal's recent run has been blown way out of proportion. We should be beyond the point by now where we expect a player like him to 'gegenpress' and win physical duels, he's just not that sort of player; he's a luxury player in the vein of Berbatov (the latter would win his fair share of aerial duels, but that's beyond the point).

A pragmatist like Jose realised this and had a platform of muscle and guile in the form of Khedira and Xabi Alonso behind Ozil at Real and he flourished consequently. The problem at Arsenal is both Wenger and the personnel they have at their disposal. Everyone has been waxing lyrical about Sanchez all season, and with good reason, but he didn't seem to step it up against City yesterday either.

Arsenal's problem has nothing to do with individual players, it has to do with the team's mentality and work ethic. Arsenal are a slick, fairweather team that will never dig deep and outwork the opposition to get a victory. They go to teams always doing the same thing, try and pass the ball into the net, when it works they look great AD when it fails they fall short, but from Wenger down to the individual players (particularly the likes of Girpud and Ozick) they're soft hearted players who don't want to leave sweat out on the pitch to dig out a victory.

Leicester City, a team now almost dragged into the relegation battle gave the blueprint to win the PL last season with a squad of acceptable players: Work harder than your opponents. Arsenal will never do that under Wenger. A few players like Sanchez, Coquelin, Bellerin and Xhaka work hard, but it's not a team mentality. Look at clubs like Madrid and Barcelona, even Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo and Bale track back and cover space and run themselves into the ground, that work ethic is necessary to achieve at the highest level.

This is pretty much my point - Jose had a team of workers around Ozil at Real, so the latter's shortcomings in terms of work rate and getting stuck in were not laid to bare.

 

[Zantera]

The problem with Arsenal still remains Wenger. He has lost his winning touch and when it's time for Arsenal to step up and take that final step, they cave in due to weak mentality and poor tactics. I don't see Wenger winning the PL title even if he had Messi/Neymar/Suarez in his attack.

 

[Iceman]

Ozil is playing better this season but he is light years away from Sanchez for me in terms of contribution to the club so far. When it comes to financing their contracts I would very much prioritise Sanzhez and if they are too expensive combined think about selling Ozil, especially as a lot of people still seem to rate him up there with the best.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Ozil is playing better this season but he is light years away from Sanchez for me in terms of contribution to the club so far. When it comes to financing their contracts I would very much prioritise Sanzhez and if they are too expensive combined think about selling Ozil, especially as a lot of people still seem to rate him up there with the best.

I would prioritize Sanchez over Ozil myself, but on his day, the latter is indeed one of the best in his position. You just need to build a team around him and there's few teams nowadays who still put such an onus on just one player.

 

[Iceman]

I would prioritize Sanchez over Ozil myself, but on his day, the latter is indeed one of the best in his position. You just need to build a team around him and there's few teams nowadays who still put such an onus on just one player.

Yes he can be. I prefer consistent players to make up a first team starting eleven myself although of course it is great to see him when he is having one of those days. I don't think Arsenal can afford to have the luxury of that kind of player as they already have a fair number of players who are great on their day but not week in week out. (usually excelling against village teams and having an off day against the elite).

 

[DeadPresident]

Yes this is one reason why the championship and other lower leagues bring so many more teams into play as a team that recovers from relegation worries by stringing a few wins together is suddenly in the race for 6th and promotion! And you don't need to do exceptionally well to get promoted from 6th, you just need to beat the 2 teams in front of you which is the same thing that 3rd place has to do. So it's a big bummer to drop from 2nd to 3rd while 1st to 2nd isn't that bad apart from losing the championship title. The championship playoff final is probably the domestic game with the highest stakes.

That does sound like it is the highest stakes, also probably the highest level of excitement outside of a CL or WC final to be honest, a lot on the line and promotion up for grabs even for 6th is astounding.

This is pretty much my point - Jose had a team of workers around Ozil at Real, so the latter's shortcomings in terms of work rate and getting stuck in were not laid to bare.

Yeah. That's why I don't rate Ozil that highly, he needs uninterrupted protection to be at his best. Any decent #10 playing for the likes of Liverpool/United/Chelsea/Arsenal/Spurs/City can turn over a team like Ludogorets or minnow teams, and I don't see Ozil dig deep and pull his team out of the **** like I've seen Coutinho, Erikson, or Hazard do.

He's a luxury player in every sense of the word and Sanchez is worth twice as much because he puts twice as much in. His passing range and ability on the ball are both amazing, but I can show you freestyle footballers that can do the same things given the time and space Ozil needs. Great player, but just not able to affect the game on his own at the highest level from what I've seen.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Iceman]

Liverpool win the Merseyside derby 1-0.

 

[DeadPresident]

Not sure how Barkley wasn't sent off for his disgraceful challenge on Henderson, the officials this season have honestly been piss poor.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

So wenger won't face any charges from the fa over his ref comments.

 

[Dr Lee]

complete cowardly ******** by the FA... he spoke about the officials, so he should get a ban according to the FA's moronic, stupid idiotic goddamn protection of ****e officials instead of fixing the rot in the system.

 

[DeadPresident]

Apparently United are going to be signing Benfica's Swedish CB Victory Lindelof for around £38m in January. That would mean United have 4 dedicated CBs; Smalling, Bailly, Jones, Rojo, and Blind can be moved into midfield again.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Apparently United are going to be signing Benfica's Swedish CB Victory Lindelof for around £38m in January. That would mean United have 4 dedicated CBs; Smalling, Bailly, Jones, Rojo, and Blind can be moved into midfield again.

Seen this myself. Hope to see Blind play some games in the 'Carrick role' this season, he can be the former's long-term replacement.

 

[DeadPresident]

Seen this myself. Hope to see Blind play some games in the 'Carrick role' this season, he can be the former's long-term replacement.

I should've said 5 CBs with Lindelof being added, which does technically seem like too many, I could see one of Jones or Smalling being offloaded and at the moment I would lean towards Smalling.

It would be absolutely ideal if it frees Blind up but I'm not sure Mourinho will use Blind like that, I think he prefers his #6 CDMs to be built like Carrick, Fellaini, Khedira or Matic, but hopefully I'm wrong. I think Blind is the ideal guy to take over from Carrick. Not sure about this Lindelof kid but Jose and his team spotted Bailly so there's reason to trust them.

 

[Iceman]

I wish they would really come down on these horror tackles. If it's mistimed that's one thing but if there's any malice involved I think you should only have a limited amount of chances before you get chucked out of the game.

 

[DeadPresident]

I wish they would really come down on these horror tackles. If it's mistimed that's one thing but if there's any malice involved I think you should only have a limited amount of chances before you get chucked out of the game.

Definitely agree, it's become a case of seeing one pretty much each game. The FA really needs to step up and start having a look at how rampant dangerous challenges are and how bad their officials are at dealing with them.

 

[DeadPresident]

On the same topic Vardy has lost his appeal against his red card. The inconsistency is insane, Barkley recklessly goes through Henderson's standing leg where he could've broken his leg and gets a yellow. Vardy accidentally loses his footing and ends up with both feet off the ground and is immediately red carded - and they won't reverse the decision. The FA really is disgraceful.

 

[B]

Uneventful game the Everton/Liverpool tie considering it was a derby, bar the last minute goal, the only thing I've to say is Barkley should have seen red for his lunge on Henderson I believe it was, could have ended his season on the spot.

The FA should start retrospective bans/fines or general punishments for such incidents. Forget if they've been yellow carded in the game or not.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

On the same topic Vardy has lost his appeal against his red card. The inconsistency is insane, Barkley recklessly goes through Henderson's standing leg where he could've broken his leg and gets a yellow. Vardy accidentally loses his footing and ends up with both feet off the ground and is immediately red carded - and they won't reverse the decision. The FA really is disgraceful.

Saw that myself, as well as Vardy's tackle. Never a red and ridiculous that it's stood.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah the midfield being fluid has completely changed how United play. Under Moyes and van Gaal the midfield was non-existent and then an afterthought respectively. Now the midfield is extremely robust and the entire game flows through them, and that 3 seems ideal. I do wish that Blind will get an opportunity in the #6 position at some stage but I don't see that happening. We're going to need a replacement for Carrick this summer, but I'm not sure who's available that offers his level of control.

It's a shame but I see Blind being sold in the summer. Jose was quick to move him from CB, he's now behind Darmnian as the LB back-up and when Carrick is rested we play 4-2-3-1 rsather thasn plugging him in as the #6. I'm hoping we keep with 3 man midfield and I really want to see Pereira and Fosu-Mensah intergrated fuylly next season as 2 options, meaning we'll just need that elusive Carrick replacement.

On the wide forward score I hope Martial develops a bit more during this season. He's become very one dimensional, he always slows down play and tries to toast the full back and often it doesn't work. I think it's safe to say the Memphis experiment has failed, him and Schneiderlin will most likely be gone in January, so we'll need to start thinking of yet another wide forward to bring in. Hopefully Martial kicks on, I'd still like to see some games with a fully fit Mkhitaryan and a (hopefully) in form Martial out wide with Mata behind Ibra with the midfield 3 above.

Martial is making the right noises about his consistency issues, hopefully Jose's tough love approach has the same effect on him that it had on Mkhitaryan. I think we will need another wide forward option though as Memphis is going and we can't keep using Rooney and Mata wide IMO. We have Mkhi/Martial/Lingard so one more will round ity up nicely and playing time shouldn't be an issue as the first sub is almost always an attacking wide player, so everyone will get plenty of minutes.

I'm a little disappointed that it took United half the season to warm up, those Stoke, Burnley and Arsenal games could've easily been ground out wins instead of draws and it would've put United in a solid position now.

Those 3 home results and the nut kicks against Arsenal abnd Everton have made the season very hard, but it was worth it to usher in the more fluid, attacking football we have seen, and I think those results toughened up the players as well.

Jojo? Good lord Hunter, not even Vader could get away with that.

A switch has seemed to flip. The team looks a lot more solid out there, more confident that they can finish what they start. Pogba and Zlatan are also just ballin' right now and it is seemingly working out just how Jose imagined.

Lingard is a very useful squad player. He can be a Park or O'Shea for us, which is necessary.

After that choking line I beg to differ!

I think Ibra and Pogba have inbued the team with that extra belief, that combined with the full move to 4-3-3 has seen things fall into place.

Agreed, Lingard is a good squad option for the RWF spot.

They are so spineless. On my football board, a few were blaming Sanchez for Ozil going missing again. I almost died from the laughter I produced.

Eh? Any time things get tough Ozil shrinks, where as Sanchez is the one giving it his all even when those around him are just strolling through the game.

Liverpool win the Merseyside derby 1-0.

They didn't create much but they were the better team, Everton were on top in the first 20 minutes but never really troubled Mignolet. Liverpool were on top for most of the 2nd half and Everton offered no attacking threat at all.

Not sure how Barkley wasn't sent off for his disgraceful challenge on Henderson, the officials this season have honestly been piss poor.

Barkley's was the worst of the recent ones but our own Rojo should have seen red twice as well, yet they did Vardy and his was the tamest of the bunch, it's no wonder the managers get so frustrated with the lack of consistency.

 

[idiot09]

Btw I heard Berbatov is back at United. He is the reason I have a 09 in my username. My favourite forward player. Such class.