The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

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Upon which said player then strangely develops a sudden back injury that sidelines them for months. The same back injury that weirdly clears up whenever there is an international though.
 
Not sure if anyone else saw the Skysports article about United sounding out options to become a new technical director for the club - but it’s the first bit of good news we had in a while. Apparently the current RB Leipzig guy is a consideration, which looking at their rapid ascent wouldn’t be a bad idea.
 
You don't need to be a footballing genius to know that spending £120M and 150k a week on two 30 year olds is bad business unless they are extremely special players. Like I said I think Alderweireld would have been a good buy but I'm not bothered about missing out if the bar is being set on the ages of the players we are willing to stump up big money for, as long term I think it's best for the club and the sport in general, it's why I also agree on the planned UEFA initiative that will limit clubs to a €100M net spend per season, something has to be done about the stupidity of the money in the game right now.

I don't have a problem if the board & manager came together & decided together that they'd been outpriced of moving any further for the player based on age & what both the manager & board agreed they are worth, that isn't a problem. What I do have a problem with is if things were working the way you said, with the board doing their own merry little thing & the board alone deciding that a player isn't of sufficient ability or their style isn't what we want, for clear & obvious reasons.

As for that UEFA initiative, first I've heard of it but it sounds like a waste of time. If teams can't spend their money on transfers, it will instead just go into wages, agent fees & signing on fees. The money will still be there, but rather than going from club to club, it will go to agents & players.

Mourinho sees that player he wheels on at the 70 minute mark crucial to his tactics, he had Mikel for the role at Chelsea, he used Diarra for it at Real, it's key and that is why he wanted to keep Fellaini, there was no way we were going to buy a 4th top class CM had he gone when he already has 3 starters, you know who the Fellaini alternative was? Manduzkic, a big striker he could pump it long to and who'd add aerial strength at set pieces. We weren't getting some class CM if Fellaini had gone and I think you're underestimating how much Mourinho values his "qualities" in regards to his tactical approach.

The role itself perhaps is crucial, but the player isn't. McTominay literally ticks the same boxes & we know Mourinho likes him after stumbling onto him. He's 6'4 so he adds aerial presence at both ends of pitch & he's competent enough to be relied upon to add another layer of protection for our CB's should we be protecting a lead.

We weren't going to get anybody had Fellaini went that's the problem, we'd have just been another midfielder down. In hindsight that's probably why his contract wasn't renewed until the very last minute, a desperation renewal because Woodward & the rest of the brain trust couldn't land us anyone. It's not like it's a difficult task finding a midfielder that's an upgrade to him at pretty much any price.

Those Manduzkic links weren't to replace Fellaini because Fellaini isn't a striker, it was more than likely to replace Zlatan as should Lukaku go for any extended period we're going to really be lacking a striker that can lead the line.

When you look at the strongest, consistent links we were only really linked with Sandro as a LB and from quite early on Mourinho was talking up Young and Shaw, then the lump signed a new contract and that removed the need for a second CM for better or worse. That left a CB and RW, with the CB none of the options were deemed worth the fee or better than what we had bar Maguire who Leicester were unwilling to sell, and on the RW it was Willian or Perisic, both of whom were deemed too expensive for their talent level and age, Ante Rebic was offered as a younger alternative who has the same grafting style of play, but Mourinho rightfully was unconvinced on his quality, there was no point in Pulisic, Bailey or Malcom as Mourinho didn't want a young flair player out there, he wanted an experienced workhorse winger, the board and Mourinho just had no common ground except on Maguire.

Sandro & Alderweireld seemed the most consistent connections, our name was thrown around for Willian near the end but only after Barcelona & Real Madrid had reportedly made offers for him, I think we were only mentioned because we were connected with him last summer. Same with Perisic, he was never an option this year, we wouldn't pay the £55m Inter wanted for him last summer when he was 28, we apparently wouldn't go over £50m, he then signed a new contract after window shut & then went on to have an excellent World Cup so his price will have went up not down. Rebic also wasn't an option because if I recall I heard them mention during the World Cup that he'd only recently completed a permanent move to Frankfurt.

No idea why we weren't interested in Malcom considering before Barcelona questionably landed him, Roma almost gobbled him up for £30m & Mourinho was very interested in him in the winter window.. perhaps he wanted him instead of Martial but with him staying there was no need?

All in all though it was piss poor from the board whatever way you want to argue it, they literally had all year to sort this out & iron out a transfer strategy that would appease themselves & the manager. In fact if I recall I think Jose actually commented around March that he'd like 4 or 5 players brought in, so it would be safe to assume he'd maybe recommended some names as early as then probably 1st & 2nd choices. All this ****e should have been sorted out before the window even opened. I'm pleased to see that the club at least realises they've made a balls up of this window & we are supposedly actively looking to get a director of football to help make things run far smoother. It will or should at least give us a consistent transfer strategy rather than this erratic ******** we have going at the minute.
 
Not sure if anyone else saw the Skysports article about United sounding out options to become a new technical director for the club - but it’s the first bit of good news we had in a while. Apparently the current RB Leipzig guy is a consideration, which looking at their rapid ascent wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Yes very good news, Director of Football, Technical Director, Head of Recruitment etc basically the same sort of role I imagine. Someone to take charge of transfer negotiations & liaise between manager, scouts, players & board.

Campos 'proud' of links to Manchester United director of football position

That guy seems like a lead candidate, friends with & recruited by Mourinho to head up Real Madrid's recruitment during his reign there, moved to Monaco as well during their successful run & now from what I'm reading is at Lille. He's got a pretty impressive resume considering some of the players that were brought into Madrid during Mourinho's reign & then obviously Monaco as well.
 
I don't have a problem if the board & manager came together & decided together that they'd been outpriced of moving any further for the player based on age & what both the manager & board agreed they are worth, that isn't a problem. What I do have a problem with is if things were working the way you said, with the board doing their own merry little thing & the board alone deciding that a player isn't of sufficient ability or their style isn't what we want, for clear & obvious reasons.
At the end of the day someone has to make the final call, Mourinho isn't Fergie or Wenger that has some kind of moral compass when it comes to what is paid, Mourinho just wants what he wants regardless.


As for that UEFA initiative, first I've heard of it but it sounds like a waste of time. If teams can't spend their money on transfers, it will instead just go into wages, agent fees & signing on fees. The money will still be there, but rather than going from club to club, it will go to agents & players.
Not really, it might force managers and clubs to actually use their Academies and try and progress players already at the club instead of buying 5 new ones every window because they didn't win a pot the season before.

The role itself perhaps is crucial, but the player isn't. McTominay literally ticks the same boxes & we know Mourinho likes him after stumbling onto him. He's 6'4 so he adds aerial presence at both ends of pitch & he's competent enough to be relied upon to add another layer of protection for our CB's should we be protecting a lead.
I can't stand Fellaini but you are hugely underestimating what he can do in saying a mediocre kid like McTominay can do his job, he's much stronger than McTominay for starters and miles better in the air, and you can hit him with that target ball to the chest better than practically anyone in the game.


We weren't going to get anybody had Fellaini went that's the problem, we'd have just been another midfielder down. In hindsight that's probably why his contract wasn't renewed until the very last minute, a desperation renewal because Woodward & the rest of the brain trust couldn't land us anyone. It's not like it's a difficult task finding a midfielder that's an upgrade to him at pretty much any price.
We would have gotten someone had Fellaini went but I think you are way off in thinking Mourinho wanted another CM rather than Fellaini re-signing, Mourinho loves the guy, practically wets himself when he talks about him.


Those Manduzkic links weren't to replace Fellaini because Fellaini isn't a striker, it was more than likely to replace Zlatan as should Lukaku go for any extended period we're going to really be lacking a striker that can lead the line.
Manduzkic serves the same purpose as Fellaini in his aerial strength both at set pieces defensively or as a target option to beat the press, that is why he was a Fellaini replacement option. As for the striker situation, maybe if we didn't play such an archaic style then Sanchez, Martial or Rashford could play as the striker, but of course we need to lump the ball up so that's why we were gonna spend more money on long ball targets.


Sandro & Alderweireld seemed the most consistent connections, our name was thrown around for Willian near the end but only after Barcelona & Real Madrid had reportedly made offers for him, I think we were only mentioned because we were connected with him last summer. Same with Perisic, he was never an option this year, we wouldn't pay the £55m Inter wanted for him last summer when he was 28, we apparently wouldn't go over £50m, he then signed a new contract after window shut & then went on to have an excellent World Cup so his price will have went up not down. Rebic also wasn't an option because if I recall I heard them mention during the World Cup that he'd only recently completed a permanent move to Frankfurt.
Willian was mentioned a lot from the final game of the season, I remember it starting after his antics over Conte after the FA Cup final, he would have been far and away Mourinho's #1 choice.


No idea why we weren't interested in Malcom considering before Barcelona questionably landed him, Roma almost gobbled him up for £30m & Mourinho was very interested in him in the winter window.. perhaps he wanted him instead of Martial but with him staying there was no need?
We weren't interested in Malcom because he's a young flair winger who is erratic and inconsistent, absolutely no use for Mourinho, I think the link to us in January was to try and draw Spurs out but they opted for Lucas Moura, another player we were erroneously linked to in that window to draw out other bidders.


All in all though it was piss poor from the board whatever way you want to argue it, they literally had all year to sort this out & iron out a transfer strategy that would appease themselves & the manager. In fact if I recall I think Jose actually commented around March that he'd like 4 or 5 players brought in, so it would be safe to assume he'd maybe recommended some names as early as then probably 1st & 2nd choices. All this ****e should have been sorted out before the window even opened. I'm pleased to see that the club at least realises they've made a balls up of this window & we are supposedly actively looking to get a director of football to help make things run far smoother. It will or should at least give us a consistent transfer strategy rather than this erratic ******** we have going at the minute.
You want to lump it all on the board but I think what this summer was, was the point where we reached an impasse with a manager we never should have appointed, so far he's destroyed the confidence of two of our young talents, Rashford has gone backwards under him and he's working on driving Pogba out of United, while still ****ing himself over the likes of Fellaini, Young and Matic and refusing to hold Sanchez to the same standards as the young players he throws under the bus, he's the complete wrong fit for Manchester United and this window simply brought things to a head, you were never going to find a list him and the board agree on as they are diametrically opposed, Mourinho wants experienced, senior grafters, the board want exciting, young, marketable players, they are too far apart and now we will just tread water until Mourinho goes.
 
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:woot: Oh damn :hehe:

And the first time I ever heard of Zidane was in connection to Wenger so he must also be kicking himself as he probably had a realistic chance to get him (especially with the French contingent at Arsenal) before he got famous.
Can't win 'em all I guess. :funny:

To be honest I don't really remember taking any notice of Zidane until World Cup '98.


Not sure if anyone else saw the Skysports article about United sounding out options to become a new technical director for the club - but it’s the first bit of good news we had in a while. Apparently the current RB Leipzig guy is a consideration, which looking at their rapid ascent wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Yeah, it's the right move and something we should have done the moment Fergie and Gill left, modern top clubs have an infrastructure that means the club hires a coach primarlily for the football and nothing more, so when he inevitably leaves after a few seasons the club doesn't come to a standstill, they just put a new piece (Coach) into the machine and it keeps motoring smoothly. I like the potential of the Leipzig guy or Monchi from Roma, and I wouldn't be opposed to van der Sar, just anyone that will stear us away from Mourinho's way of thinking.
 
Yes very good news, Director of Football, Technical Director, Head of Recruitment etc basically the same sort of role I imagine. Someone to take charge of transfer negotiations & liaise between manager, scouts, players & board.

Campos 'proud' of links to Manchester United director of football position

That guy seems like a lead candidate, friends with & recruited by Mourinho to head up Real Madrid's recruitment during his reign there, moved to Monaco as well during their successful run & now from what I'm reading is at Lille. He's got a pretty impressive resume considering some of the players that were brought into Madrid during Mourinho's reign & then obviously Monaco as well.

Ah okay - I’ll have a look at that, thanks :up: I’m not sure how comfortable I am with someone arriving that prolongs Mourinho’s presence, but at the moment having someone that lays out a clear long term strategy is crucial so I’m not going to be too picky about who it is.

If this guy has a positive track record in the position at multiple clubs and is capable of getting a transfer strategy in place so we don’t have windows like we just had again I’m all for it.

Yeah, it's the right move and something we should have done the moment Fergie and Gill left, modern top clubs have an infrastructure that means the club hires a coach primarlily for the football and nothing more, so when he inevitably leaves after a few seasons the club doesn't come to a standstill, they just put a new piece (Coach) into the machine and it keeps motoring smoothly. I like the potential of the Leipzig guy or Monchi from Roma, and I wouldn't be opposed to van der Sar, just anyone that will stear us away from Mourinho's way of thinking.

I don’t know much about either the Leipzig or Roma guy but given Leipzig’s sharp rise and Roma’s solid recruitment in the last few seasons I do like the idea of either. It will at least give some coherence to our transfers and perhaps takes pressure off Mourinho because he will focus on just the football and the Director will concern himself with identifying targets and communication with Woodward about acquiring them.

Like you say - it’s the modern way and United are lagging behind significantly in that regard, and have been since Fergie stepped down, so this is long overdue.
 
Will be interesting to see what impact this DoF could have. I’ve been a bit burned on the term since that farce at Newcastle with Dennis Wise and co a ways back.
 
There's definitely a possibility for it to do some harm. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with a pro-Mourinho person coming in to be DoF for the simple reason that it seems like it will end up being a way for Mourinho to try and equalize player power and Woodward's influence. It'll only end up in a back and forth tussle that'll have Mourinho and this DoF removed IMO.

A neutral DoF coming in seems best, that will make dispassionate recommendations and be an ally to Woodward and Mourinho.
 
Yes, also they can then hang around for the long term future when Mourinho leaves.
 
Will be interesting to see what impact this DoF could have. I’ve been a bit burned on the term since that farce at Newcastle with Dennis Wise and co a ways back.

Dof is basically the ceo or owner admitting they don't know that much about football.

How it should work.

Coach say i need such and such to improve the team.

Scouts go and find players.

Dof finds out what they would cost wages and transfer fee and what the club can afford.

They discuss and choose targets.

Dof seals the deal.

Also does contract deals for existing players.

Can understand the role.
 
I don’t know much about either the Leipzig or Roma guy but given Leipzig’s sharp rise and Roma’s solid recruitment in the last few seasons I do like the idea of either. It will at least give some coherence to our transfers and perhaps takes pressure off Mourinho because he will focus on just the football and the Director will concern himself with identifying targets and communication with Woodward about acquiring them.

Like you say - it’s the modern way and United are lagging behind significantly in that regard, and have been since Fergie stepped down, so this is long overdue.
I think the key thing with Monchi is that he recruits young, and looks to players that have longer term progression and development qualities while still being able to offer the team something now, he did great things at Sevilla as well.


The lack of planning that went into the post-Fergie era has seen us tread water for 5 years. Getting a DOF to begin the creation of a footballing infrastructure at the club is the most important step we'll have made.


Big blow but they have the squad depth to cover his abscence.
 
I think the key thing with Monchi is that he recruits young, and looks to players that have longer term progression and development qualities while still being able to offer the team something now, he did great things at Sevilla as well.

The lack of planning that went into the post-Fergie era has seen us tread water for 5 years. Getting a DOF to begin the creation of a footballing infrastructure at the club is the most important step we'll have made.

Yeah - there do seem to be a couple of technical directors capable of hitting that sweet spot where they get in players that are sufficient to compete immediately, but who also have an ability to grow into potential world beaters if given time. Is Monchi one of the potential candidates being discussed for the United position?

I can't agree more with the bolded - it's a move we desperately need to make and I hope whichever candidate is chosen is a good long term choice. It would be senseless for the choice to be rushed only to end up being the DoF version of Moyes/LvG. The caliber of person being discussed makes it seem unlikely, fortunately.
 
Dof is basically the ceo or owner admitting they don't know that much about football.

How it should work.

Coach say i need such and such to improve the team.

Scouts go and find players.

Dof finds out what they would cost wages and transfer fee and what the club can afford.

They discuss and choose targets.

Dof seals the deal.

Also does contract deals for existing players.

Can understand the role.
Well that part isn't far from the truth lol.
 
His Real Madrid side was entertaining in fairness & ironically he actually signed some of the more creative difference makers as well if I recall, Modric, Ozil & Di Maria.

His other sides I agree have always been a lot more efficient than anything else, but they've not all been boring. The first Chelsea team he assembled was a good example, they were formidable all over the pitch. That's a side often forgotten about as being one of the best ever in the Premiership, it's right up there with last season's City, Arsenal's Invincibles & a couple of United sides IMO.

Yeah, that's a fair point I guess. I think the Mourinho we see now is some ways away from the manager he was at Madrid, though. I think his Inter side and his second spell at Chelsea were passable at best, and he's clearly far more pragmatic (and occasionally negative) now than he was before. He's clearly still talented, but I think entertaining the fans is the last thing on his mind right now.

I didn't follow the story regarding his departure but I recall the raving about him when he joined, my understanding was the reason he'd left was to take a better/higher position job elsewhere. Wouldn't have been a bad idea to offer him a director of football position with us if he'd wanted a higher position than chief scout.

That's true on one hand, but on the other hand I also feel like United need to be able to hold on to valuable staff almost no matter what. If United was such a great place to work at I'm sure he'd have no reason to look for greener pastures. It just seems like another sign that United are becoming a medium-sized fish in a massive pond. That might all be mitigated if we appoint a DoF soon, though, definitely holding thumbs that comes off because it could give us the over-arching strategy we've been lacking post-Fergie and it would be a huge boost IMO.

He's also just signed a long term deal with Spurs that even put Real Madrid off him as I'm sure they'd have had to have paid a monster compensation fee to Tottenham. Plus, he also hasn't won anything either with Tottenham yet. Is he really more flexible? Jose's not exactly a very rigid manager when it comes to playstyle or tactics.

Also true, yeah, he's going to be borderline impossible to pry away. Perhaps in a footballing sense they're almost identical and Pochettino is just likable/a better man manager?

Fair enough, the only thing I'd partially disagree with is that you feel he's more about positional discipline than anything else. Mourinho tends to like his 2 or 3 guys in the middle to do particular things as they hold the key to the entire teams shape.

In regards to cohesion, that's not really something you can force in my opinion. Getting more & more competitive games with the same players will help that & it will grow the longer they play together, but as I say it's not something can be forced as some players just take to one another quicker.

Yeah perhaps you're right. It's just highly frustrating to see a team capable of a lot more, but because Mourinho's refusing to budge even 10% on his own approach we seem to be seeing very lackluster performance. The more I think about it after considering the Pochettino comparisons though the more I think it's like 35% Mourinho's footballing characteristics and actually 65% his personality.

I can't disagree on the second part though, we've had the unfortunate mishap of rotating less than ideal managers in Moyes/LvG so quickly and appointing Mourinho who has such different squad requirements that our squad has been a revolving doors nightmare. If we just kept the same core squad for like 3-5 seasons we'd probably see at the very least more calm and consistency.

I want to see him driving forward with the ball at his feet more from deep like Toure used to do oh so often for City. I don't see him as a Xavi type playmaker, he's at his strongest for me when he gets a bit of space & can stretch his legs to go past someone.

I have to admit I think the lack of adventure on Pogba's part (and almost everyone else) is down to knowing they're going to catch flak off Mourinho whenever things don't go 100% right - but I agree I'd like to see him adopt that playing style a little more, too.
 
Good lord Newcastle down to ten with a 95th minute penalty at 0-0 against Cardiff.

Damn, Kenedy misses.
 
Bloody hell. :dry:

Can’t wait till we get off the mark with a win. Not bad for 10 men away I guess.
 
West Ham winning at least. They are my second team this year.
 
Is it not possible to just promote Leeds now and get it over with?
 
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