The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

[DarthSkywalker]

What legal grounds would FIFA have for denying a player registration after he'd completed a contractual obligation?

They could say he/she would be ineligible to participate in any games from the previous season(s) games, maybe, but without a good reason for doing so they couldn't stop them from leaving/joining another club once their contract is done, it would get thrown out of court.

FIFA has complete control over whether a player can be registered or not. They can simply enforce a rule on registered players, while the clubs all offer the players two month contracts, to finish the season. Can you give a reason the players new club, who would be in the same situation, would reject this plan?

But say there is a legal challenge, in the middle of a pandemic. When exactly do you think this argument is going to be heard? The Fall at the earliest, after the season has probably already been finished, and FIFA would start registering players again, meaning there are no actual damages? This is before we get into the fact that the clubs would be willing to play the players.

You're being incredibly dumb & ignorant as all hell regarding this aspect of the topic. So much so that I'm not even going to waste my time arguing with you about it.

One, I like that you needed to insult me because you have no actual argument.

Two, your inability to actually make an argument proves just how correct my argument is. This is before we get into the fact that the money making streams for all of football flow straight from the top, which is why the bigger clubs have so much power.

But it's okay B. I am use to your deflecting, because you aren't good at this.

Funny, I thought I was just trying to work out under which scenario do the least amount of clubs & people get the **** end of the stick.

As you continue to suggest things that would keep the sport at a standstill, where no one can make money? Sure.

I assure you that you aren't. They said it was postponed until at least April 3rd & now till April 30th, the current plan of action for the Premier League is to resume the fixtures that are penciled in for the 2nd May, that's why they're still listed as going ahead - Premier League Fixtures Season 2019/20

I really don't know what to say to the question about Italy.

Oh I am. But I love that your attempt to seemingly prove your point is to repeat what I already wrote, and then showed they want to finish the season. Yeah, I know.

Rich people like life, always find a way. They played baseball during WW2. I am sure they will figure out a way to play 2 months of soccer during this period. Especially as the longer this goes, the longer it effects clubs and next season, including the now pushed by Euros.

So you want to put the players, coaches, non-playing staff etc up in a hotel for 2 months, away from their wives, girlfriends & children during a global pandemic just so they can, no-pun, keep the ball rolling with the footballing season? and I'm ridiculous?

What part of, their families can be with them, was difficult for you to understand?

I love, love, love that you are acting like a bunch of rich folk, living in isolated luxury, which they are already doing, is some put upon state so they can get paid. You act like they are about to become Immortan Joe's wives.

Oh look at Lebron James self-imposed torture!!!!

 

[Iceman]

You're being incredibly dumb & ignorant as all hell regarding this aspect of the topic.

Hello mate. You guys are welcome to debate hard as much as you want but please let’s not cross over into this kind of language. I’m aware that you hardly ever do. Cheers

 

[Iceman]

Former Cardiff midfielder Peter Whittingham dies aged 35

RIP

Apparently the guy had an accidental fall.

 

[DeadPresident]

As far as finishing 19/20 goes it makes way more sense to impact 20/21 slightly to finish a season that has already completed 75% of its fixtures than it does to write of 19/20 to spare a season that hasn’t even arrived yet.

I’m sure the FAs of different nations can isolate their teams’ players long enough to eliminate COVID19 from everyone and then implement enough procedures to avoid pre-game contact between players and staff to safely play games behind closed doors.

That way we can conclude the season and grant Liverpool their title, resolve CL and relegation candidates and then move on from there. The CL/EL becomes a slightly more complex competition to fulfill due to the international nature, but they’ll need to cross that bridge when we get there.

 

[DeadPresident]

In other news; it appears as though Pogba is likely going to be moved on in the summer so United are probably considering midfield replacements to acquire with that money.

Overall I’m satisfied with that because we’ll hopefully buy players that are as excited to play for us as Fernandes and Ighalo are, and we’ll be selling a player that has seen his time at United as an uncomfortable chore.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In other news; it appears as though Pogba is likely going to be moved on in the summer so United are probably considering midfield replacements to acquire with that money.

Overall I’m satisfied with that because we’ll hopefully buy players that are as excited to play for us as Fernandes and Ighalo are, and we’ll be selling a player that has seen his time at United as an uncomfortable chore.

Those running United turned it into an uncomfortable chore. That is the issue.

 

[Zantera]

Hard to feel any sympathy for Pogba. He's one of the best paid footballers in one of the biggest clubs in the world and it's not like him coming here was some sort of 'gun to the head' force-transfer, it was a challenge he himself seemed hyped for. Sure things haven't panned out that great with the team but this happens for a lot of clubs. Just think about all the 'top' teams making a big signing like this every season and that player joining under the hype of "we will win trophies together" - yet in the end there's only 1 team that will stand as winner by the end.

People give Özil a lot of crap for not being interested/not giving enough/not living up to his name but I would say this is way worse with Pogba who age-wise is in his prime but has given us very little to cheer for. The fact that he's basically been sitting out this season alone says something. But if you want to believe its all "injuries" then be my guest. Players like Pogba who don't care/don't want to be here have been a big part of the problem and I think if we shift him and spend the money well, the outcome would look a lot better.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hard to feel any sympathy for Pogba. He's one of the best paid footballers in one of the biggest clubs in the world and it's not like him coming here was some sort of 'gun to the head' force-transfer, it was a challenge he himself seemed hyped for. Sure things haven't panned out that great with the team but this happens for a lot of clubs. Just think about all the 'top' teams making a big signing like this every season and that player joining under the hype of "we will win trophies together" - yet in the end there's only 1 team that will stand as winner by the end.

People give Özil a lot of crap for not being interested/not giving enough/not living up to his name but I would say this is way worse with Pogba who age-wise is in his prime but has given us very little to cheer for. The fact that he's basically been sitting out this season alone says something. But if you want to believe its all "injuries" then be my guest. Players like Pogba who don't care/don't want to be here have been a big part of the problem and I think if we shift him and spend the money well, the outcome would look a lot better.

Pogba is the best midfielder in the world, we surrounded him with crap, and allowed Jose to scapegoat him. he wants to win titles, and we have started a rebuild over three years into him being back here. He wants to leave, which is fair considering we have clearly not kept our promises to him.

 

[B]

FIFA has complete control over whether a player can be registered or not. They can simply enforce a rule on registered players, while the clubs all offer the players two month contracts, to finish the season. Can you give a reason the players new club, who would be in the same situation, would reject this plan?

But say there is a legal challenge, in the middle of a pandemic. When exactly do you think this argument is going to be heard? The Fall at the earliest, after the season has probably already been finished, and FIFA would start registering players again, meaning there are no actual damages? This is before we get into the fact that the clubs would be willing to play the players.

It's more the players who would have to collectively accept it more so than the clubs, they'd all have to accept extensions or postpone moves to complete the seasons with their existing clubs as a whole. Clubs will obviously oppose it if some of their players reject the proposition.

Hypothetically if there was any legal challenges & FIFA lost, they would presumably then have to cover legal costs & any lose of earnings that any sanctions regarding their registration rule changes might have cost the parties involved.

One, I like that you needed to insult me because you have no actual argument.

Two, your inability to actually make an argument proves just how correct my argument is. This is before we get into the fact that the money making streams for all of football flow straight from the top, which is why the bigger clubs have so much power.

But it's okay B. I am use to your deflecting, because you aren't good at this.

I think I made my point crystal clear. You've said you don't care about anything other than the top leagues, therefore your opinion on what should happen in those lower or less reputable leagues is irrelevant.

You realise that condescending comments are insulting as well don't you?

As you continue to suggest things that would keep the sport at a standstill, where no one can make money? Sure.

Which suggestion specifically did I make to keep the sport at a standstill?

Oh I am. But I love that your attempt to seemingly prove your point is to repeat what I already wrote, and then showed they want to finish the season. Yeah, I know.

So why exactly are you arguing with me about them then if we're in agreement?

What part of, their families can be with them, was difficult for you to understand?

I love, love, love that you are acting like a bunch of rich folk, living in isolated luxury, which they are already doing, is some put upon state so they can get paid. You act like they are about to become Immortan Joe's wives.

Oh look at Lebron James self-imposed torture!!!!

So you want players, coaches, non-playing staff etc put away somewhere & be basically treated like it's a hospital in terms of controlling the environment with them forbidden from basically leaving that controlled environment, all well looked after etc. Fair enough. Understood. Who's paying for all this? Sounds expensive. Club?

 

[Zantera]

Pogba is the best midfielder in the world, we surrounded him with crap, and allowed Jose to scapegoat him. he wants to win titles, and we have started a rebuild over three years into him being back here. He wants to leave, which is fair considering we have clearly not kept our promises to him.

If you honestly believe he is the best midfielder in the world there's not really much to talk about honestly. I wouldn't put him in the top10 though he is definitely gifted. I don't think anyone would mention him in the same sentences as De Bruyne for example.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's more the players who would have to collectively accept it more so than the clubs, they'd all have to accept extensions or postpone moves to complete the seasons with their existing clubs as a whole. Clubs will obviously oppose it if some of their players reject the proposition.

Hypothetically if there was any legal challenges & FIFA lost, they would presumably then have to cover legal costs & any lose of earnings that any sanctions regarding their registration rule changes might have cost the parties involved.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...2018-2925437.pdf?cloudid=c83ynehmkp62h5vgwg9g

A quick skim tells me #4 under Registration, #1 and #2 under Registration Period and #11 Unregistered Players. All they would need . Also as these rules point out, FIFA can restrict the registration of players. Like how a player cannot register for more then 3 clubs in a season. So yeah, they could restrict the registration of players do to the delay of the seasons.

If nothing is happening post June 30, and players want to sit at home and not get paid, that would be their decision. Unless FIFA just lets them transfer and lets the teams play with these new players, though that probably would be considered effecting the competition's integrity.

I think I made my point crystal clear. You've said you don't care about anything other than the top leagues, therefore your opinion on what should happen in those lower or less reputable leagues is irrelevant.

You realise that condescending comments are insulting as well don't you?

No, what I am saying is the vast majority of people don't care. Not me, the overwhelming majority of football fans. You keep on trying to turn this into a moral argument, when I keep pointing out you are comparing the care of a few thousand people, to the interest of hundreds of millions of people. We know what matters more in that regard. Do you really think the vast majority of football fans care what happens in League One, especially compared to who wins the Champions League?

Be as condescending as you like. But the name calling is very telling.

Which suggestion specifically did I make to keep the sport at a standstill?

The red herring of player registration and lower league concerns.

So why exactly are you arguing with me about them then if we're in agreement?

You really should read what you wrote that started this. You seem to be under the assumption that the PL thought they'd be back in early April. No one believed that.

So you want players, coaches, non-playing staff etc put away somewhere & be basically treated like it's a hospital in terms of controlling the environment with them forbidden from basically leaving that controlled environment, all well looked after etc. Fair enough. Understood. Who's paying for all this? Sounds expensive. Club?

You do realize this is what they are telling people to do right?

Jovic faces arrest if he breaks isolation again



They want people isolated, and as time goes on, they are going to be enforcing it with law enforcement and eventually military.

As to who would pay for it, of course the clubs. It would be much cheaper then the other options:

Report: EPL Clubs Will Have to Repay Part of TV Money If Season Not Finished

 

[B]

https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...2018-2925437.pdf?cloudid=c83ynehmkp62h5vgwg9g

A quick skim tells me #4 under Registration, #1 and #2 under Registration Period and #11 Unregistered Players. All they would need . Also as these rules point out, FIFA can restrict the registration of players. Like how a player cannot register for more then 3 clubs in a season. So yeah, they could restrict the registration of players do to the delay of the seasons.

If nothing is happening post June 30, and players want to sit at home and not get paid, that would be their decision. Unless FIFA just lets them transfer and lets the teams play with these new players, though that probably would be considered effecting the competition's integrity.

I don't know if I'm more enlightened after skimming through that, or confused.

So does the player being registered have a direct impact on if he gets paid or not? Hypothetically lets say David Silva has a pre-contract agreement to join Barcelona on a free, FIFA won't be able to block the transfer, but they can block his registration for games making him ineligible for the previous season(s) games that may be remaining. Does that mean Barcelona wouldn't have to pay him?

Be as condescending as you like. But the name calling is very telling.

As is the fact you think it's perfectly acceptable to be insulting to someone's intelligence as long as it's done in a condescending manner.

The red herring of player registration and lower league concerns.

Neither of those were suggestions though, they were problems that exist that must be overcome.

You really should read what you wrote that started this. You seem to be under the assumption that the PL thought they'd be back in early April. No one believed that.

I was going to say the same thing back to you. The then official fixture list reflected the fact that the games were postponed till April 3rd & then they wanted to pick right back up at the next load of planned games on April 11th I believe they were initially. It was literally the same as what they now reflect except now the April games have been removed & May 2nd being where they expect to currently pick up.

That's literally the same case in Italy who haven't announced a further postponement of their fixtures with all the Serie A clubs still listing their April 4th/5th weekend fixtures as currently going ahead. - Fixtures & Results - Juventus.com - Inter.it

As to who would pay for it, of course the clubs. It would be much cheaper then the other options:

Report: EPL Clubs Will Have to Repay Part of TV Money If Season Not Finished

Fair enough, might work for the Premier League clubs. Probably wouldn't work in any divisions beneath the Premier League though on the basis that it probably would be cheaper for them to take a hit on any outstanding TV money owed than to have to hire out suitable such accommodation for a few months.

 

[B]

 

[Hunter Rider]

United's kit for next season unveiled!

So Mason Mount breaks isolation to play 5 a side and the press are silent? Imagine if Sterling or Pogba did that?

Oh yeah, the double standards are alive and well in the UK media.

In other news; it appears as though Pogba is likely going to be moved on in the summer so United are probably considering midfield replacements to acquire with that money.

Overall I’m satisfied with that because we’ll hopefully buy players that are as excited to play for us as Fernandes and Ighalo are, and we’ll be selling a player that has seen his time at United as an uncomfortable chore.

The thing I like is the word that we are looking to activate the extra year in Pogba's deal to make sure we get a proper price for him if he intends to go, and we also want to get Zakaria and Bellingham in before we let Pogba go, which would be the sensible thing to do which isn't always the case with United's transfer business.

 

[DeadPresident]

The thing I like is the word that we are looking to activate the extra year in Pogba's deal to make sure we get a proper price for him if he intends to go, and we also want to get Zakaria and Bellingham in before we let Pogba go, which would be the sensible thing to do which isn't always the case with United's transfer business.

Yeah, it shows a tad more control from the club. I think we’ve turned a corner in terms of the atmosphere around the club that will help with player negotiations.

For effectively the entire period after SAF’s retirement until now we’ve been playing **** football and the feeling around the club has been negative, so the appeal of coming was nonexistent and players and agents held a lot of negotiating power. I’d say since the Fernandes and Ighalo signings United has turned into what could be considered a vaguely interesting “project” and players may actually genuinely want to play here for more than just a paycheck.

If United activate Pogba’s extra year it means we get a good price, and due to Fernandes’s arrival and our transformation into a half decent team we’re no longer beholden to Pogba (and by extension Raiola), if he goes he goes and we’ve got his replacement for half the price and having an actual impact on the dressing room. We no doubt look far more appealing now than we did 12 months ago, and if we swap Pogba for Zakaria and Bellingham the club comes out better for it.

 

[Iceman]

AC Milan’s Maldini and son Daniel test positive for coronavirus

 

[Iceman]

RIP The football world is getting affected a fair bit.

Lorenzo Sanz: Former Real Madrid president dies after contracting coronavirus

 

[DarthSkywalker]

RIP The football world is getting affected a fair bit.

Lorenzo Sanz: Former Real Madrid president dies after contracting coronavirus

Makes you realize your own responsibility in all this. How you can help prevent the loss of life.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I agree, you've said something there very important. You expect them to be able to deal with these sorts of unprecedented events, to a reasonable level. This crosses the line of being reasonable into the territory of unreasonable.

The Football Associations will undoubtedly have to help out as some clubs will struggle immensely, the lose of 5-6 home games worth of revenue is absolutely huge for a lot of the lower tier clubs.

I agree with the notion that when owners gamble & put their own clubs future in jeopardy with unaffordable spending that they'll only be able to justify if they achieve certain goals, other clubs & the FA's shouldn't be bailing them out of a hole, however this isn't a situation like this. Many clubs that will face financial problems in the coming months will have been put there because of a national crisis no different from your locally run shops/pubs etc that may be forced to close down for a few months, some of which won't reopen.

This podcast puts this into perspective.

BBC Radio 5 live - Football Daily, EFL Special: How will clubs be affected by coronavirus?

The margins are so thin because of how they spend. Are clubs going to be hurting from this? Yes. But the reason some clubs are laying off staff might even be on the verge of collapse, is because of how they handle their fiances. Multiple things are discussed, including by the chairman of the EFL, Rick Parry. These clubs can't take these hits because they are already in the red, by choice. This is not dissimilar to the mighty Barca.

In the Championship, clubs spend 107% of turnover on wages. That means they are already in the red before they ever spend one cent on mowing the grass, a manager, team doctors, kit men, stadium upkeep, electricity, etc. That is completely their decision, and well an awful one.

I also think Parry makes a very telling point when talking about the PL sides. We are talking about clubs who function in the same basic way as the other clubs in the English leagues. As he says, none of them are sitting on mountains of cash. They are all spending with each other, trying to keep up, stay in the league, win things, etc. So the margins should be similar. And yet, they aren't. Overall, the PL was in the black in the 2017-2018 season, by 304m. The majority, 12 clubs, were in the black. On the other hand, 52 of 72 EFL clubs were in the red, with a collective loss of 388m. This is why they aren't ready for these rainy days.

Football League clubs lost £388m last season as cash crisis is revealed | Sport | The Times[/QUOTE]

 

[DeadPresident]

Pogba being the best midfielder in the world on paper doesn’t answer why his output has been below par. Fernandes walked into the same context as Pogba has been and he’s playing his heart out and has a positive attitude, why doesn’t Pogba?

Answer is simple; just like Özil Pogba is a good time Charlie that will deliver his best when a bunch of other players are running their lungs out, plugging holes, and putting out fires. But if a team is in dire straits and he needs to become one of those players running their hearts out he eventually becomes stroppy. That situation is exacerbated by him having Raiola as his agent who probably tells Pogba (and Lukaku, and Mkhitaryan, and De Ligt) he’s the best player ever to touch a ball and if he ever doesn’t like a situation he’s well within his rights to throw his toys out of the cot.

Pogba is definitely the best midfielder in the world on paper but his output hasn’t shown it and it’s clear he doesn’t respect his team mates or the club enough to try and contribute when times get tough.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Pogba being the best midfielder in the world on paper doesn’t answer why his output has been below par. Fernandes walked into the same context as Pogba has been and he’s playing his heart out and has a positive attitude, why doesn’t Pogba?

Answer is simple; just like Özil Pogba is a good time Charlie that will deliver his best when a bunch of other players are running their lungs out, plugging holes, and putting out fires. But if a team is in dire straits and he needs to become one of those players running their hearts out he eventually becomes stroppy. That situation is exacerbated by him having Raiola as his agent who probably tells Pogba (and Lukaku, and Mkhitaryan, and De Ligt) he’s the best player ever to touch a ball and if he ever doesn’t like a situation he’s well within his rights to throw his toys out of the cot.

Pogba is definitely the best midfielder in the world on paper but his output hasn’t shown it and it’s clear he doesn’t respect his team mates or the club enough to try and contribute when times get tough.

Pogba did. When he came back to the club he was playing his ass off, and did so for awhile. In a Jose setup, that demanded from Pogba a style of play that didn't really make sense. Even with the racist attacks against him. I love Bruno, but if he has to go through 4 years of the crap Pogba did, including a manager blaming him for his own failings, let's see how he is then. He'd probably want to leave as well.

 

[Zantera]

I'll definitely cut Pogba some slack for how Mourinho treated him but that doesn't really excuse his no-presence during Ole's time as manager. I see more enthusiasm and desire to play from Lingard and I think we'll all agree that he should be shipped out as soon as possible.

 

[B]

United's kit for next season unveiled!

Looks better than what our current rumoured kit designs will be for next season -

 

[DeadPresident]

Several players were treated like **** by Mourinho and somehow they’ve managed to stay committed to the club and turned their fortunes around. Shaw being a solid example, Fred, Martial, and Lindelof also persevered.

There’s no way of getting around the fact that Pogba doesn’t want to have to grind and fight through matches. He wants to be able to do skills, spray passes around, and smash long passes in while his team mates do the hard graft. He’s an Özil, not a Fernandes, and I don’t blame him for wanting to leave so it’s best for the club and his enjoyment of his career to facilitate the move. His feeling towards the club has soured and it ain’t going to improve, so it’s time for him to move on.

I still wouldn’t mind him staying because I know if he walks into this current team with their high spirits he would perform like a Ballon d’Or candidate, but the truth will always be that if we drop into difficult times again he’ll be looking for the exit as soon as it happens.

 

[B]

Pogba being the best midfielder in the world on paper doesn’t answer why his output has been below par. Fernandes walked into the same context as Pogba has been and he’s playing his heart out and has a positive attitude, why doesn’t Pogba?

Answer is simple; just like Özil Pogba is a good time Charlie that will deliver his best when a bunch of other players are running their lungs out, plugging holes, and putting out fires. But if a team is in dire straits and he needs to become one of those players running their hearts out he eventually becomes stroppy. That situation is exacerbated by him having Raiola as his agent who probably tells Pogba (and Lukaku, and Mkhitaryan, and De Ligt) he’s the best player ever to touch a ball and if he ever doesn’t like a situation he’s well within his rights to throw his toys out of the cot.

Pogba is definitely the best midfielder in the world on paper but his output hasn’t shown it and it’s clear he doesn’t respect his team mates or the club enough to try and contribute when times get tough.

Couldn't have said it any better myself & you've pretty much nailed my feelings on Pogba & my frustrations with him at times.