The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

[Hunter Rider]

The media are acting like Mourinho stripping him of the vice-captaincy was for his blunder at Wolves that cost us the goal, which is BS, that was without a doubt for his comments about how United approach home games particularly against perceived 'lesser' opponents. I see a lot of United fans on Twitter defending Pogba, saying he's right & the fans have been saying that since Mourinho took over etc, especially after last nights result, but regardless of your feelings on Mourinho as manager, surely everyone can see how Pogba's recent comment(s) are a problem.

Mourinho has consistently trashed players, dug them out as the reason for a bad result publicly, even ran down the club in that post Sevilla match where he said he'd have their players in his team over our own, so Mourinho set this tone of public laundry washing and I don't blame Pogba for firing back, as Mourinho accepts zero responsibilities for our issues. Also this is a pattern with Mourinho, first at Real and then at Chelsea, falling out with players due to throwing them under the bus to cover his own ass, the only difference is that at Real Ramos and the vets there were more wily in how they dealt with him and at Chelsea the players simply downed tools, but at United we aren't really doing the latter and Pogba is being up front about the issues rather than undercover. The problem is Mourinho first and foremost, he obviously isn't the only one but he is the biggest one, he is the reason for the constant swirl of negativity and drama surrounding the club, he's poison at this point an we need to fire him.

 

[B]

Mourinho has consistently trashed players, dug them out as the reason for a bad result publicly, even ran down the club in that post Sevilla match where he said he'd have their players in his team over our own, so Mourinho set this tone of public laundry washing and I don't blame Pogba for firing back, as Mourinho accepts zero responsibilities for our issues. Also this is a pattern with Mourinho, first at Real and then at Chelsea, falling out with players due to throwing them under the bus to cover his own ass, the only difference is that at Real Ramos and the vets there were more wily in how they dealt with him and at Chelsea the players simply downed tools, but at United we aren't really doing the latter and Pogba is being up front about the issues rather than undercover. The problem is Mourinho first and foremost, he obviously isn't the only one but he is the biggest one, he is the reason for the constant swirl of negativity and drama surrounding the club, he's poison at this point an we need to fire him.

Thing is though, managers can somewhat get away with being critical of their own players publicly. I realise that's somewhat of a double standard, but it's the truth. Mourinho wasn't the first & won't the last manager to be critical of a player or players for a poor performance, silly mistake, red card or whatever. When a player, particularly one entrusted with a vice-captaincy role, criticises the manager, tactics & teammates, which is more or less what Pogba has done, stripping him of the vice-captaincy was the minimum that should have be done. I don't know if you've read either of Ferguson's books but he talks about this kind of thing, how he didn't & wouldn't allow a player to challenge the managers absolute power, it's a very short list of players that did & were there very long.

The club needs to think long & ****ing hard about what happens next because I've a feeling we are about to enter dangerous territory of which it will be very hard to return from. If Mourinho is sacked & Pogba remains, the power of the club is now in the players hand's rather than the manager, which is very much the way Real Madrid & Barcelona work in which the players & chairman/president run those clubs often why managing them is often like taking the poison chalice.

I honestly don't know what I want to happen, I really don't. I think Mourinho is a **** & I think in order for people to overlook that in addition to his conservative tactics he must be winning otherwise the fanbase is just going to get more & more poisonous & toxic. I think Pogba is getting a little bit big for his boots, while there was a lot of people defending his comments there also seemed to be a lot criticising him, particularly given his mistake against Wolves, wrong time, wrong place. The situation between the pair of them needs to be resolved or the pair of them need to at least come to common ground that they can still work together for the remaining time they are together as every week we don't get a result or play well this tiresome drama rears it's head.

 

[Dr Lee]

The issue here isn't pogba... it has **** all to do with Pogba. to try and claim it does is lunacy and ignores the actual issue.

We have a manager who cannot run a match. he can't set up workable tactics that use his players advantages, he has no ability to respond when things inevitably go wrong, he can't understand why the team is losing and he's too busy starting fights with his players to prepare for the next game.You want to fix MUFC, then you start with sacking Jose. it has **** all to do with a player speaking the truth and it gives no power to the players other than the power to play football properly under a competent manager.

 

[Iceman]

Liverpool Chelsea in the Cup tonight, ahead of their match up in the league which will be a good test of Liverpool's title credentials.

 

[Iceman]

Liverpool Chelsea tonight in the Cup ahead of their big match up in the league, which will help establish what Liverpool's title credentials are.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

Another drama.

From my point of view, Pogba was willing to clap hand with Mourinho (you can clearly see he offered his hand to Mourinho) but it seems that Mourinho refuse the handshake. In the first few seconds you can clearly see Mou clap hand with Fred but after that he ignored Pogba and said something that provoke Pogba.

Damn, I hope these 2 clowns get the hell out of here soon so we can focus purely on football.

 

[Dr Lee]

keep Pogba, lose Jose.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The media are acting like Mourinho stripping him of the vice-captaincy was for his blunder at Wolves that cost us the goal, which is BS, that was without a doubt for his comments about how United approach home games particularly against perceived 'lesser' opponents. I see a lot of United fans on Twitter defending Pogba, saying he's right & the fans have been saying that since Mourinho took over etc, especially after last nights result, but regardless of your feelings on Mourinho as manager, surely everyone can see how Pogba's recent comment(s) are a problem.

Mourinho has consistently trashed players, dug them out as the reason for a bad result publicly, even ran down the club in that post Sevilla match where he said he'd have their players in his team over our own, so Mourinho set this tone of public laundry washing and I don't blame Pogba for firing back, as Mourinho accepts zero responsibilities for our issues. Also this is a pattern with Mourinho, first at Real and then at Chelsea, falling out with players due to throwing them under the bus to cover his own ass, the only difference is that at Real Ramos and the vets there were more wily in how they dealt with him and at Chelsea the players simply downed tools, but at United we aren't really doing the latter and Pogba is being up front about the issues rather than undercover.

 

[Iceman]

Arsenal leading Brentford 1-0 in tonight's matches.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah I have to agree, I'm not sure I'd write off the idea of this season being a three-horse race, but of the three teams that have looked the best so far Chelsea seems to be in third place. Sarri is a new arrival while Pep and Klopp both have two seasons under their belt, and both Liverpool and City have superior squads, arguably.

I think Sarri has already done a great job getting Chelsea to play this well after the really indifferent season they had under Conte, so it's not even a slight against them to say they're the third most likely team to win the league.

Yes, it's impressive and it will be interesting what he can do next season with a few more of his own transfers and more experience of the English game.

 

[Iceman]

As grim as it appears for Newcastle, they've faced what you'd perceive or expect the final top 6 clubs with 4 of them in their opening 6 games so I have a real hope and feeling they'll pick up points very soon. They have Southampton, Brighton to come with Leicester on Saturday so points there to be definitely won.

I think we're capable of playing well in matches, just winning them and getting all 3 points which seems to be a stretch. We haven't got enough goals in us so our only real chance of a win seems to be keeping a clean sheet.

 

[kit1982]

Truly it's some feat to make the biggest club in the country a tough sell but Mourinho has managed it. Why would any top player worth his salt want to play for that guy?

 

[Iceman]

Chelsea beat Liverpool 2-1. Apparently a great winner from Hazard. Spurs also through on pens against Watford.

 

[Iceman]

Truly it's some feat to make the biggest club in the country a tough sell but Mourinho has managed it. Why would any top player worth his salt want to play for that guy?

The attractive football from Klopp and positive atmosphere would be a preferable bet for many potential targets right now IMO.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jose has gone to far. I was on his side, but doing all this while he knows the spotlight is on is just dumb.

 

[Iceman]

I didn’t realise West Ham tonked Macclesfield 8-0! It’s only Macclesfield but it looks like West Ham’s confidence is back after 3 good results in a row.

 

[Hunter Rider]

My posts after the Derby game didn't stick due to the board issues, but this was the best thing to come from the defeat to Derby.

Truly it's some feat to make the biggest club in the country a tough sell but Mourinho has managed it. Why would any top player worth his salt want to play for that guy?

Exactly, he's like toxic waste seeping through the club, if he gets his way and we flog Pogba to Barca in January we wont be able to get a repalcement anywhere near the quality as like you say, who, of the highest quality, is going to want to come here and take the risk when they'll have multiple options for a big club move?

 

[DeadPresident]

Yes, it's impressive and it will be interesting what he can do next season with a few more of his own transfers and more experience of the English game.

Yeah, very curious to see how long he sticks around and how he improves their team from January onwards. It's clear his tactics and approach are far superior to Conte's, and Chelsea can probably only go up from here.

Truly it's some feat to make the biggest club in the country a tough sell but Mourinho has managed it. Why would any top player worth his salt want to play for that guy?

Our incompetent board has put themselves in a ridiculous position. Either Mourinho must go, which sets us back a lot because the new arrival will need time to bed in, recycle some players that aren't to his liking, etc, etc - or they have to get rid of Pogba which makes them look even more ridiculous and loses us one of our best players while keeping the sour one at the helm.

The other can of worms is who even replaces Mourinho should he go? The top 5 managers around are all settled in good jobs - who do we even try and approach?

The more I look at United the more I think they're going to be the new Arsenal/Liverpool during the last 15 or so years and we're going to be treading water until like 2030...

 

[Hunter Rider]

Good win for Chelsea at Anfield tonight, both teams went for it and that goal from Hazard was brilliant.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, very curious to see how long he sticks around and how he improves their team from January onwards. It's clear his tactics and approach are far superior to Conte's, and Chelsea can probably only go up from here.



Our incompetent board has put themselves in a ridiculous position. Either Mourinho must go, which sets us back a lot because the new arrival will need time to bed in, recycle some players that aren't to his liking, etc, etc - or they have to get rid of Pogba which makes them look even more ridiculous and loses us one of our best players while keeping the sour one at the helm.

The other can of worms is who even replaces Mourinho should he go? The top 5 managers around are all settled in good jobs - who do we even try and approach?

The more I look at United the more I think they're going to be the new Arsenal/Liverpool during the last 15 or so years and we're going to be treading water until like 2030...

Yeah, big step up from Conte on that front who seemed a bit of a passenger for a manager of his reputation. Sarri seems to have much more of a vision and if Chelsea do well, he will be an integral reason rather than just the guy who happened to be the manager when the players decided to play really well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, very curious to see how long he sticks around and how he improves their team from January onwards. It's clear his tactics and approach are far superior to Conte's, and Chelsea can probably only go up from here.



Our incompetent board has put themselves in a ridiculous position. Either Mourinho must go, which sets us back a lot because the new arrival will need time to bed in, recycle some players that aren't to his liking, etc, etc - or they have to get rid of Pogba which makes them look even more ridiculous and loses us one of our best players while keeping the sour one at the helm.

The other can of worms is who even replaces Mourinho should he go? The top 5 managers around are all settled in good jobs - who do we even try and approach?

The more I look at United the more I think they're going to be the new Arsenal/Liverpool during the last 15 or so years and we're going to be treading water until like 2030...

Zidane won a CL coming in half way through a season. He'd be an instant boost to the likes of Pogba, Rashford and Martial.

 

[B]

Sorry I posted this yesterday, or thought I did, but the board was completely unusable for me.. luckily the new draft feature saved about 80% of it because it's a bit of a rant.

Mourinho has consistently trashed players, dug them out as the reason for a bad result publicly, even ran down the club in that post Sevilla match where he said he'd have their players in his team over our own, so Mourinho set this tone of public laundry washing and I don't blame Pogba for firing back, as Mourinho accepts zero responsibilities for our issues. Also this is a pattern with Mourinho, first at Real and then at Chelsea, falling out with players due to throwing them under the bus to cover his own ass, the only difference is that at Real Ramos and the vets there were more wily in how they dealt with him and at Chelsea the players simply downed tools, but at United we aren't really doing the latter and Pogba is being up front about the issues rather than undercover. The problem is Mourinho first and foremost, he obviously isn't the only one but he is the biggest one, he is the reason for the constant swirl of negativity and drama surrounding the club, he's poison at this point an we need to fire him.

Thing is though, managers can somewhat get away with being critical of their own players publicly. I realise that's somewhat of a double standard, but it's the truth. Mourinho wasn't the first & won't the last manager to be critical of a player or players for a poor performance, silly mistake, red card or whatever. When a player, particularly one entrusted with a vice-captaincy role, criticises the manager, tactics & teammates, which is more or less what Pogba has done, stripping him of the vice-captaincy was the minimum that should have be done. I don't know if you've read either of Ferguson's books but he talks about this kind of thing, how he didn't & wouldn't allow a player to challenge the managers absolute power by undermining him.

The club needs to think long & hard about what happens next because I've a feeling we are about to enter dangerous territory of which it will be very hard to return from. If Mourinho is sacked & Pogba remains, the power of the club is now in the player's hands rather than the manager, which is the way Real Madrid & Barcelona work in which the players & chairman/president run those clubs often why managing them is often like taking the poison chalice.

I don't know what I want to happen, I think Mourinho is a **** & in order for people to overlook that in addition to his conservative tactics he really needs to be winning more games than not otherwise the clubs fanbase will continue to turn more poisonous & toxic towards him. I also think Pogba is getting a little bit big for his boots, while there was many that defended & agreed with his comments, there were also a fair amount criticising them, especially given it was his error that led to the Wolves goal so it was somewhat wrong place, wrong time. Their situation needs resolved sooner rather than later or the pair of them need to come to a common ground in which they can at least work together for the remaining time they are at the club as everytime we don't get a result or performance, this drama rears it's ugly head & it's getting tiresome.

 

[B]

The rift in training yesterday between dumb & dumber, appeared to be over some Paul Pogba Instagram post/story over Pogba laughing & joking at the game which from what I've read was posted after we'd been knocked out on penalties.

 

[Dr Lee]

There's some suggestion that it was posted before the game, but i'm not sure WTF is going on or why it's important

 

[Iceman]

i'm not sure WTF is going on or why it's important

Exactly what I was thinking.