The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

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Van Petrol

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Outside of Barca/Real & the Premiership, there aren't as many options as there used to be for the big players. Thing is the ones that do go to Barca/Real (& aren't the very top players) invariably end up on the bench.

Yeah that is great. Maybe Ramsey can be the long term replacement for Cesc if he goes.
 
Shame that Liverpool's two main strikers are either ineligible or injured (as is their best player, Gerrard) for the Europa because tbh we're pretty toothless in attack, really. We huff and we puff but not a lot happens. Chronic lack of pace (especially when Johnson doesnt play and >groan< Poulsen is preferred in the middle than anyone actually good).

If Suarez, Carroll and Gerrard were on the pitch with Mirieles and Cole etc, I think it would be a different story. Obviously, Suarez aint gonna get a European bow for LFC this season but here's hoping that Carroll and Gerrard feature in the next round.

I'm still hopefull that we will eventually have our best 11 on the pitch in the run in for that 4th CL spot though - Chelsea, Spurs - you better watch your arses because we are on them. :D
 
I think the raw materials are greater with Rodwell than most others though.

That's a fair point, the market is tricky these days though and sometimes you have to go with it.

Personally, I'd rather risk trying to buy 3 foreign £10m 'potentials' rather than pay £30m for a player simply because hes English. I'd think that there should be some sort of premium because of the fact he is English, that being said this deal & the one Liverpool got for Andy Carroll makes it seem like clubs are taking the piss..

Rooney is a forward though and it's much easier to shine at that age in that role. CM is perhaps the most difficult role to play at first. Now in fairness Rodwell does not look as good as Wilshire if we want to find a midfield comparison, but Wilshire is the exception IMO.

Not so sure, I mean I kinda agree with what your saying that if a striker is banging in goals left right & centre it would obviously get him noticed a more, however if your putting on consistant dominant midfield, defensive or goalkeeping performances you'd get recognition & noticed just as well I feel.

Gibson wasn't very good tonight again but sadly he was the best of the 3 we had on.

Do you see IF, and it is a very big IF at that, IF Gibson improved his passing ability & his attacking/off the ball movement was a little better he could play like/a similar role for us that Lampard does/did for Chelsea.

That being said he just doesn't look like he will be a success for us long term..

We are the only top team that constantly switches formations as Fergie refuses to change full time to 4-2-3-1 Like the bulk of top teams play, that is the formation Pastore would work in but I don't know what we'd do with him in 4-4-2.

This is part of the problem, I don't mind him switching the formations up to suit his tactical approach to games, however often it means players are then pushed out of their better position.

However if a player is good enough, I'm sure Ferguson will try to adapt how the team plays/lines up in order to suit him.

If we where gonna play 4-2-3-1 with Pastore we could be lining up:

Berbatov

Rooney - Pastore - Nani

With all 3 swapping positions, Pastore seems talented, quick & skillful enough to be able to play in a winged role occassionally... certainly as much as Rooney would anyway.

It would be interesting to see if Pastore could play in a 4-4-2 alongside a more defensive minded partner in the middle though, Fletcher, Hargreaves or someone of that kinda mold.​

Yeah he suffers from the same wannabe Ronaldo syndrome Nani used to have.

:funny:

There is only 1 cure.. don't play at the same club as Ronaldo. :D

He was excellent again tonight, looking like a real bargain at £10M. :up:

Definatly looking like a really good signing & an added bonus that hes English & somewhat has a similar style to Rio Ferdinand. :up:
 
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2 more wins..looks like a season of domination could be on the cards for the Premier League in Europe. Only Aston Villa have flopped so far. 4 teams with a reasonable shot of making the CL quarter finals & 2 in the UEFA with a chance of winning.
 
i love how after winning one game( yes against barca i give) everyone it betting on arsenal doing the four.

hell the guys at talksport are saying they are unbeatable and bookies should be taking bets on how many points they win the title by
 
i love how after winning one game( yes against barca i give) everyone it betting on arsenal doing the four.

hell the guys at talksport are saying they are unbeatable and bookies should be taking bets on how many points they win the title by
 
Europa League could possibly come back to England, Liverpool might be a good bet if your a betting man.. although they were somewhat fortunate to come through tonights encounter unscathed they seem to have got a touch more stability in the team. Whether that's down to Hodgson leaving or Dalglish taking over is another question but with Carroll still to play & eligible for EL & Gerrard to also make a return.. well they could be in with an outside chance of creeping to the trophy. Pity Suarez isn't eligible, could have proved useful.

Manchester City have got to be in with a good shout as well, they also were quite unconvincing over their opposition tonight as they arguably have been the duration of their EL campaign this year.. still, they've got to be favourites considering their team & the fact that next year they seem destined for the CL.

CL is a little tougher, Barcelona have got to be the favourites but they are definatly not unbeatable. For all their 500 odd passes or whatever the figure was against Arsenal, they didn't do too much with the possession they had.. and Arsenal are hardly the most defensively sound team in the CL in my opinion. I'd love to see Arsenal knock them out because I'm starting to develop this irrational hatred of Barcelona for a variety of reasons..

Chelsea should go through comfortably, Manchester United should hopefully go through with no problems providing they play to their capabilites at OT & Tottenham should knock AC Milan out given that they've a 1-0 advantage + an away goal coming into their home leg.. so unless they implode.. I'd favour them to go through.
 
Yeah B, at the moment I think Spurs & Utd are favourites to go through while Chelsea should have no problem. Arsenal will need to be at their best & Barcelona at less than theirs to get all 4 through. Liverpool & Man City, though both a bit inconsistent & unconvincing at times, are as good as any other teams left in the UEFA Cup. So the Prem has 6 strong teams left in Europe (Vs 4 from Spain & 3 or less from everyone else). All 6 of those should requalify for Europe again next season as well so if another decent team replaces the hapless Villa, further domination awaits!
 
I'd say Arsenal are favoruties for the Carling Cup and League as we head into 3 back to back league games.

In the CL I think Chelsea are essentially into the quaters already and Spurs will have too much for Milan. Arsenal have the hardest task away at the Camp Nou, United should have too much for Marseille but the away goal could haunt us.

Liverpool and City must be joint favourites with Villareal and Porto for the Europa League, with Dutch sides Ajax and PSV as outside bets.

He'd be a fool to go to Real at this stage in his career, methinks. But anyways, to each his own.

Come on Rambo! Here's hoping he can come back and reach his undoubted potential! :up:

You'd think he would learn from Benzema, mind you I don't think he'd find it that easy to get into the Arseal starting II either.

:up: Where do you see him fitting in when fully back?


Outside of Barca/Real & the Premiership, there aren't as many options as there used to be for the big players. Thing is the ones that do go to Barca/Real (& aren't the very top players) invariably end up on the bench.

Yeah that is great. Maybe Ramsey can be the long term replacement for Cesc if he goes.

Yeah, in years gone by the big Italian teams were hot destinations but Serie A has dried up a lot since the Calciopoli scandal.

That's what I figured he will be but he seems quite versatile.

Personally, I'd rather risk trying to buy 3 foreign £10m 'potentials' rather than pay £30m for a player simply because hes English. I'd think that there should be some sort of premium because of the fact he is English, that being said this deal & the one Liverpool got for Andy Carroll makes it seem like clubs are taking the piss.

The thing is long term United will have a British spine IMO, we always have under Fergie to a large degree, and Rodwell and Henderson offer the best chance to continue that trend.

Not so sure, I mean I kinda agree with what your saying that if a striker is banging in goals left right & centre it would obviously get him noticed a more, however if your putting on consistant dominant midfield, defensive or goalkeeping performances you'd get recognition & noticed just as well I feel.

What I mean is that midfield and defense are positions you develop into with experience, the forward positions are often easier to develop in a lot faster.


Do you see IF, and it is a very big IF at that, IF Gibson improved his passing ability & his attacking/off the ball movement was a little better he could play like/a similar role for us that Lampard does/did for Chelsea.

That being said he just doesn't look like he will be a success for us long term..

I agree however he needs to find the desire Lampard had, neither are naturally gifted but Lampard worked incredibly hard to take the shooting ability he had and build a game around it. Whether we will be able to give Gibson the time, or whether he has the mentality to achieve this, is another matter all together.


This is part of the problem, I don't mind him switching the formations up to suit his tactical approach to games, however often it means players are then pushed out of their better position.

However if a player is good enough, I'm sure Ferguson will try to adapt how the team plays/lines up in order to suit him.

The thing is it is not great for team rhythm when we keep changing formations, especially as one of the formations is one we don't have the right players for but is used simply because our midfield is so ordinary.

I agree, Fergie will find a way to utilize a top talent if it came down to that.

If we where gonna play 4-2-3-1 with Pastore we could be lining up:

Berbatov

Rooney - Pastore - Nani

With all 3 swapping positions, Pastore seems talented, quick & skillful enough to be able to play in a winged role occassionally... certainly as much as Rooney would anyway.

It would be interesting to see if Pastore could play in a 4-4-2 alongside a more defensive minded partner in the middle though, Fletcher, Hargreaves or someone of that kinda mold.​


Rooney has been poor on the left this season and shoving him their more permenantly would destroy what confidence he has left. In truth if we got Pastore then long term he would replace Berba only deeper.

This would be an interesting expirement, Pastore is a big lad and has a good passing range so it's not impossible that he could adapt.


:funny:

There is only 1 cure.. don't play at the same club as Ronaldo. :D

:lmao:

Definatly looking like a really good signing & an added bonus that hes English & somewhat has a similar style to Rio Ferdinand. :up:

Agreed. :up:

Qataris to make improved £1.5b Manchester United bid - report

I'm not so sure how much truth there is to this, however there usually isn't smoke without fire..

Would be nice to have this Glazer ******** over with..

It's hard to imagine it happening but as you say there is no smoke without fire and these Qatari rumours are persistent.
 


Supposed leaked pic of next seasons Liverpool away.
 
I meant it in general overall terms dude. The first half we we're basically bossing the game. It was as if we were playing against cardboard cut-outs and they couldn't get a touch of the ball. Then come the second half they resorted to those aggressive tactics to break up our play and try and put our players off. Although the severity of our injuries weren't as bad as they have been, the wrecklessness was certainly there.

While I may have over-exaggerated with my previous comment, I guess it comes from my disdain for Stoke City and the way in which they 'apparently' play football.


Honestly can't see the problem in that bolded part at all, they gave you too much respect first half so second half they try to disrupt the flow of your passing football. Pretty much what Chelsea and United have done to you for years now. Why should they continue to let you pass through them?

Maybe I've been watching lower league football for too long but Stoke get far too much c**p in my eyes. Just because they don't play in short intricate triangles all over the park doesn't mean they aren't playing football.

Don't mean this as a dig Van as I think your a great poster but Stoke use the same tactics against more physical sides like Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool yet it only seems to be their 2 games a season against Arsenal where it's a huge problem.
 
Honestly can't see the problem in that bolded part at all, they gave you too much respect first half so second half they try to disrupt the flow of your passing football. Pretty much what Chelsea and United have done to you for years now. Why should they continue to let you pass through them?

Maybe I've been watching lower league football for too long but Stoke get far too much c**p in my eyes. Just because they don't play in short intricate triangles all over the park doesn't mean they aren't playing football.

Don't mean this as a dig Van as I think your a great poster but Stoke use the same tactics against more physical sides like Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool yet it only seems to be their 2 games a season against Arsenal where it's a huge problem.
I have to agree with what Kits saying here, maybe its because we are used to the delights of Championship football but i think you are a little harsh on Stoke....
 
I have to agree with what Kits saying here, maybe its because we are used to the delights of Championship football but i think you are a little harsh on Stoke....

Maybe it's Stokes ability to defend, that we both admire unlike a certain team from yorkshire who can't hold a lead.....3-3 against BARNSLEY still can't get over it!
 
Honestly can't see the problem in that bolded part at all, they gave you too much respect first half so second half they try to disrupt the flow of your passing football. Pretty much what Chelsea and United have done to you for years now. Why should they continue to let you pass through them?

Maybe I've been watching lower league football for too long but Stoke get far too much c**p in my eyes. Just because they don't play in short intricate triangles all over the park doesn't mean they aren't playing football.

Don't mean this as a dig Van as I think your a great poster but Stoke use the same tactics against more physical sides like Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool yet it only seems to be their 2 games a season against Arsenal where it's a huge problem.

While I can see what you're saying and agree to an extent, I'd be lying if I said I agreed wholeheartedly. I was around in the days when we made winning ugly an art form, and were referred to as 'Boring, Boring Arsenal' so I'm not ignorant to the style some of these teams employ now. Maybe I've become spoiled over the last few years by the brand of football Wenger has incorporated into the team now. Nowadays, I find it hard to watch 10 minutes of a game between a Stoke and Birmingham, for example. But I guess what really sways my biased opinion (yes, it is biased), and why I'm so harsh on them is my utter disdain for Stoke City.

Yes, it's mostly because of the whole Ramsey incident. When it occured the whole subsequent wrapping in cotton wool and backing of that c**t Ryan Shawcross (yes, he is a c**t, more on that later), while Ramsey was seemingly left to fend for himself by almost everyone apart from our club, left a real bitter taste in the mouth. Not only that but also the subsequent vile and disgusting behaviour by some of the scum Stoke City call fans. I'm sorry but wouldn't you agree that a section of fans who would cheer and boo a 19 year old down on the floor with his leg hanging almost by a thread, and then being chanted "He's only got one f***ing leg!" at, accompanied by cheering and laughter isn't the sort of thing scum is made of?

Yes, I do hate Stoke with a passion, and can and will never forget how they treated Aaron that day. You can imagine my joy and jubilation when we eventually did the p****s in the last few minutes.

As for Shawcross, at the time I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't really hold anything against him. That was until after I discovered he's been up to this sort of behaviour before. He committed three similar wreckless challenges on players in the championship prior to this incident, almost breaking two of said players legs, and breaking the other, Frannie Jeffers (who incidentally also used to play for us). And Tony Pulis said he's not that sort of player?... :whatever:

As for me being too protective of my own players, well sorry but three leg breaks in the space of four years is enough for me to be concerned. It's not coincidence, it's wreckless and taking the piss. Teams always go in harder against us, because they see us as soft and unresponsive, whereas against other teams they know if they give some they'll get some. And surprise, surprise whenever we do rise to it, everybody comes down on us like a ton of bricks. I couldn't help, but laugh the other day when the pundits were going nuts criticising us for our disciplinary record this season. Whille there is, and never was any mention of last season where we had the best disciplinary record in the league, picking up just one red card, that shouldn't of even been a red card in the first place.

I often wish we still had a couple of Vieira's, Adam's and Keown's around. The Invincibles was a team I did and still do admire so much. It was a team that had the right balance of elegance, technical ability and power. It allowed us to play 'beautiful football' while also allowing us to mix it up with the roughest and toughest.
 
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While I can see what you're saying and agree to an extent, I'd be lying if I said I agreed wholeheartedly. I was around in the days when we made winning ugly an art form, and were referred to as 'Boring, Boring Arsenal' so I'm not ignorant to the style some of these teams employ now. Maybe I've become spoiled over the last few years by the brand of football Wenger has incorporated into the team now. Nowadays, I find it hard to watch 10 minutes of a game between a Stoke and Birmingham, for example. But I guess what really sways my biased opinion (yes, it is biased), and why I'm so harsh on them is my utter disdain for Stoke City.

Yes, it's mostly because of the whole Ramsey incident. When it occured the whole subsequent wrapping in cotton wool and backing of that c**t Ryan Shawcross (yes, he is a c**t, more on that later), while Ramsey was seemingly left to fend for himself by almost everyone apart from our club, left a real bitter taste in the mouth. Not only that but also the subsequent vile and disgusting behaviour by some of the scum Stoke City call fans. I'm sorry but wouldn't you agree that a section of fans who would cheer and boo a 19 year old down on the floor with his leg hanging almost by a thread, and then being chanted "He's only got one f***ing leg!" at, accompanied by cheering and laughter isn't the sort of thing scum is made of?

Yes, I do hate Stoke with a passion, and can and will never forget how they treated Aaron that day. You can imagine my joy and jubilation when we eventually did the p****s in the last few minutes.

As for Shawcross, at the time I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't really hold anything against him. That was until after I discovered he's been up to this sort of behaviour before. He committed three similar wreckless challenges on players in the championship prior to this incident, almost breaking two of said players legs, and breaking the other, Frannie Jeffers (who incidentally also used to play for us). And Tony Pulis said he's not that sort of player?... :whatever:

As for me being too protective of my own players, well sorry but three leg breaks in the space of four years is enough for me to be concerned. It's not coincidence, it's wreckless and taking the piss. Teams always go in harder against us, because they see us as soft and unresponsive, whereas against other teams they know if they give some they'll get some. And surprise, surprise whenever we do rise to it, everybody comes down on us like a ton of bricks. I couldn't help, but laugh the other day when the pundits were going nuts criticising us for our disciplinary record this season. Whille there is, and never was any mention of last season where we had the best disciplinary record in the league, picking up just one red card, that shouldn't of even been a red card in the first place.

I often wish we still had a couple of Vieira's, Adam's and Keown's around. The Invincibles was a team I did and still do admire so much. It was a team that had the right balance of elegance, technical ability and power. It allowed us to play 'beautiful football' while also allowing us to mix it up with the roughest and toughest.

Mate come on, you can't get on your high and mighty about insenstitive fans. I've been to Highbury in the past many a time and heard some pretty bad chants about Jody Morris (whether he's a c**t or not it was harsh) and even about Lucas Radebe having aids but I wouldn't let that sway my opinion on Arsenal as every teams fanbase has aload of c**ts.
Some of the nicest fans I've met on away days are Liverpool fans, yet look at the Alan Smith leg break it's just one of those things.

How you can say Ramsey was left to fend for himself, especially after the uproar of it all, the fact that Stoke are still labeled for that challenge the fact that upon his return it was as if he'd risen from the grave is beyond me. The only reason people's opinions have appeared to change is all we have heard are these accusations from Wenger that "everyones against us". It's nonsense, if it's not Pulis, it's Sam Allardyce. It's been going on long before Martin Taylor had even seen Eduardo and the football public are sick of it.

As for teams going in harder against you, I just don't buy into it. You're telling me you can go in lightly against the likes of Fletcher, De Jong or Essien and have a chance of getting a result? The only difference is that those teams get on with it. For example Chelsea have shown that they can deal with it, they will just go out, play come back in and onto the next match. No fuss and it shows Stoke have to rethink their tactics as it just won't work.

The biggest irony is that Arsenal have shown time and time again in the past few seasons that they can deal with the big physical game as well as anyone, teams will just always do it because it gets under Wengers skin, he should take note of Mancini who at first moaned his arse off about it but later just got on with it and now noone tries it on them.
 
Btw, I forgot to mention I discount Glenn Whelan from the 'Stoke Vendetta', as he was good to Ramsey when the incident happened.
 
Mate come on, you can't get on your high and mighty about insenstitive fans. I've been to Highbury in the past many a time and heard some pretty bad chants about Jody Morris (whether he's a c**t or not it was harsh) and even about Lucas Radebe having aids but I wouldn't let that sway my opinion on Arsenal as every teams fanbase has aload of c**ts.
Some of the nicest fans I've met on away days are Liverpool fans, yet look at the Alan Smith leg break it's just one of those things.
Lol, I'm not. Most who know me know that I will be one of the first to call out out my side when they do wrong. Just because it's my team commiting the obscenity doesn't mean I will condone it at all. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I'm not prepared to let Stoke off for what they did. If you want to discuss my team's fanbase's vulgar nature then go right ahead, I won't condone it, nor will I try to brush it aside. I'll most likely join in on condemning them for it.

How you can say Ramsey was left to fend for himself, especially after the uproar of it all, the fact that Stoke are still labeled for that challenge the fact that upon his return it was as if he'd risen from the grave is beyond me. The only reason people's opinions have appeared to change is all we have heard are these accusations from Wenger that "everyones against us". It's nonsense, if it's not Pulis, it's Sam Allardyce. It's been going on long before Martin Taylor had even seen Eduardo and the football public are sick of it.
It all seems to be dwarfed in comparison to the lovey dovey S***cross received, probably because he's English, eh. Alan Davies spoke out about it and started receiving death threats. So much for freedom of speech, eh. So that makes it alright then does it? Teams make no secret anymore of targetting us, yet we are the ones who get the rough end of the stick and are accused of moaning when we give some back. Have you already forgotten Allardyce's tactics to target Fabianski and obstruct and push him aside at set-pieces? The ref should have been on that, but wasn't. You only need to look at our matches to see what I'm saying. Teams get away with murder against us, yet we give them a little push in the back and the ref starts motioning towards his pocket. Good job, Wenger started to learn to keep his mouth shut nowadays, as it's gets us even more heat, than it does us good.

As for teams going in harder against you, I just don't buy into it. You're telling me you can go in lightly against the likes of Fletcher, De Jong or Essien and have a chance of getting a result? The only difference is that those teams get on with it. For example Chelsea have shown that they can deal with it, they will just go out, play come back in and onto the next match. No fuss and it shows Stoke have to rethink their tactics as it just won't work.
This is basically covered in my forthcoming paragraph.

The biggest irony is that Arsenal have shown time and time again in the past few seasons that they can deal with the big physical game as well as anyone, teams will just always do it because it gets under Wengers skin, he should take note of Mancini who at first moaned his arse off about it but later just got on with it and now noone tries it on them.
Probably because he's got enough no nonsense brick s***house players (as are the three you mentioned previously) as opposed to the small technical ones like Silva. We on the other hand don't and I'm not defending us, as regards to not having those types of players. I reckon it was a big mistake for Wenger to fill the team with small technical players in probably the most physical league there is. That's why I am so in love with the Invincibles. The balance was just right for this league.
 
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