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Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episodes I - III' started by Hordakfan, Dec 4, 2013.
Which Lucas effort from the last decade was more disappointing or are both equal?
Kingdom was just meh. Prequels were a travesty.
Crystal Skull is just some crappy later adventure from the twilight years of Indy's career. It's easy enough to ignore.
The prequels told absolutely crucial-and decidedly unignorable- backstory... and did it in such an unbelievably boring and clunky way that they damaged the saga as a whole.
So, yeah, the prequels fo' sho'.
I enjoy 'em both.
Crystal Skulls is better than any of the prequels.
The Holiday Special.
But serioisly KotCS. I enjoy watching the prequels and I find Indy 4 to be much more boring at times.
I enjoyed Indy 4 and the prequels, so i i have no disappointments
Honestly, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a subpar Indiana jones movie, but it's a pretty inoffensive family flick that can be enjoyed in its own right, provided you don't think too much.
The prequel movies, just weren't good. Not to say they didn't have some decent parts, but the second movie... was just... awful, with scenes that make you ****ing cringe. It's just painful to watch.
The third movie was actually tolerable.
Third prequel was an improvement over the first 2 as it had almost a right step in the direction.
Indy 4 can be enjoyed if not as an Indy movie and do you agree aliens don't belong in an Indy movie?
Honestly, I think ancient aliens could have worked. The real problem was, that they tried to tie it in to the UFO / alien phenomena of the mid 20th century, which they did rather poorly. In fact, I'm still unclear what the alien they found at Roswell had to do with the aliens in those ancient temples. Or why they even brought out Indiana Jones to look at an alien in the 1940's (Indie talks about it briefly). That may have been an allusion to the fact that one of the alleged witnesses of Roswell was an archeologist (Spielberg is a big UFO buff), but it doesn't make any sense the way it is presented.
Maybe because the movie was set in the 50's, they felt they had to incorporate that, but then they never seemed to do anything with it. A superior writer might have been able to pull that off, but Lucas was not.
So I think ancient aliens could have worked just fine. Contemporary aliens? Not so much.
Who says these things were disappointing? Crystal Skull has more widespread acclaim than you'd think, and the Prequels have more fandom acclaim than you'd think.
Pretty much everybody? You know it's bad when Shia Labeouf apologizes for a movie.
The prequels to me at least were an interesting experiment. Some missteps were taken to be sure, but I still think taking your main protagonist and giving him a tragic arc where he becomes consumed with evil by the end is a pretty interesting thing to watch play out. The only comparison I can really think of is The Godfather Trilogy, except that transformation occurs in the first movie.
Indy 4 just felt like a heartless, tired sequel. I'd watch any of the prequels over Indy 4. In fact I never care to see Indy 4 again.
So, Prequels>Crystal Skull for me.
Problem is that the execution of that idea was bad, and i too like to see arcs where the character gets corrupted, and there are many more stories about that than you seem to notice, Breaking Bad was one for example.
Of course execution matters most, but in general I tend to be more sympathetic to an ambitious and bold idea that falters in the execution than something uninspired and dull that is executed adequately. Even though the execution of the prequels themselves was uninspired and dull in many areas, at least there were moments where I became invested and emotionally engaged by the unfolding story. Can't say the same for Crystal Skull, which literally put me to sleep.
Also, Breaking Bad was is clearly a good example of that type of arc- but it was also a serious, adult drama that was grappling with dark and heavy themes from the start. Comes with the territory for a show about meth. The fact that the same type of tragic arc was attempted within the confines of what is essentially a children's/family franchise is why it stands out to me, and where I struggle to find an equivalent.
I actually enjoy both to be honest
Crystal Skulls is infinitely better than ALL of the PT combined. There were some dumb and annoying things in Crystal Skull, but there were also things that I liked. I can sit down and watch that movie and mostly enjoy it. The ONLY PT movie that I can bear the rewatch is episode III, and that's a very flawed movie in it's own right.
Prequels. I really don't think people grasp how difficult it is to screw up Star Wars. Saoirise Ronan turned down a key role in Avengers 2, a follow to the third highest grossing film of all time, but auditioned for Star Wars VII. Almost everyone is willing to hop on board with Star Wars, there's absolutely no shortage of talent.
You guys know who expressed desire to play young Darth Vader? Leonardo DiCarprio a young heart throb who would go on to star in films such as; The Aviator, The Departed, Shutter Island, Inception, Django Unchained, The Great Gatsby, and the Wolf of Wall Street, and he was already the leading man in; The Man in the Iron Mask, Titanic (The highest grossing film of all time circa 2000), and Romeo and Juliet (experience that would have come in handy given this story served as inspiration for the Anakin/Padme tragedy). Instead Lucas casts less famous heart throb Hayden Christensen who's acting credentials included some tv shows and poorly received films from the 90s and who has since gone on to star in Jumper and Awake. See how this doesn't make any sense no matter what angle you spin it from (looks, talent, name value)?
I swear the only people who actually like the prequels are either:
1. People who refuse to accept movies they grew up watching weren't very good.
2. The causal movie goer who's entertained by films like Transformers Revenge of the Fallen, and will like just about anything with action.
3. Obsessive Star Wars fans that will like anything with the logo on it.
I'll admit that yes there are much worse movies than the Star Wars prequels, but thing is it's just so hard to mess up. It's like Pizza, even when it's badly it still tastes pretty good, so you have to hold it to a higher standard. Little things like the fact George Lucas was the only writer and didn't allow creative input really put me off because you know how much better it could have been. While many of you may think Disney doesn't want to get away from the prequels it's clear they want to get away from Lucas' writing. Say what you want but it's no secret the guy had treatments, and if Disney thought they were remotely ready they wouldn't have brought on Arnt, Abrams, and Kershner on to rewrite the thing or have considered pushing it back an entire year.
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a fun time with Harrison Ford and while it wasn't perfect it really wasn't that much worse than Temple of Doom. Short Round was arguably just as racist as Jar Jar Binks, the girl was obnoxious, and the whole Shiva thing was a bit odd. The movies were always corny, they just tried to do something new and it didn't work. At least they gave a good effort, you can read about 4 treatments from different screen writers that have made it on the internet. At least they didn't just phone it in and try to sell toys.
You were warned...you were infracted....you are gone.....
What did he do in that post wrong? I'm kind of sleepy, but it looked like a reasonable post
The reasons he cites for why people like the PT are ridiculous (not to mention somewhat offensive because of what they insinuate). I speculate that might have played a part.
I don't find it offensive at all, it's mostly true in fact. And i'm somebody who became a Star Wars fan due to Episode III
Yeah that dude didn't do anything wrong. Harsh justice! Anyhoo...
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was utterly atrocious. Nothing even salvageable from that disaster.
The Phantom Menace was equally as bad IMHO. AOTC was also a confused mess but not quite as nightmarish as either of the above.
I liked ROTS. It was flawed but overall I enjoyed it. The last 30 minutes were pretty worth it IMHO and it flows nicely when watched in Carrie/Machete Order right into ROTJ.
So I'm not sure I have a direct answer but I think I'd go with the prequels ultimately being the most heartbreaking but Kingdom being the far worse film.
BenKenobi had a problem with trying to talk down to anyone who liked the prequels. He's used a few insults before against other users, he was pretty insulting everyone that like the prequels in his post. Pretty offensive. Be sure to not to insult other in you posts.
And no, he did not use "true facts" in his post.