The President Obama Thread: 'Super Bears!' Edition

[Kelly]

Possibly, but I happen to agree with those economists who say that the natural cycles of our economy would have done the same, and we would not have to deal with the consequences of a stimulus package that was actually a spending package that has us in debt for another 2 decades.....just my opinion.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Possibly, but I happen to agree with those economists who say that the natural cycles of our economy would have done the same, and we would not have to deal with the consequences of a stimulus package that was actually a spending package that has us in debt for another 2 decades.....just my opinion.

So the best course of action would've been: "Let it work itself out naturally"?

 

[Kelly]

IMO, yes...

 

[Nivek]

Great, then the wack pack can complain about him "not doing anything" as everything falls apart.

 

[Marlboro Man]

He would've been damned no matter what he did. The Republicans, like they are now, would figure out a way to re-write history and blame our slumping economy on Obama and the Democrats.

 

[Paradoxium]

Obama is screwing the economy up. But the Republicans would have done just as horrible of a job.

 

[Majic Walrus]

The problem is that the current system of taxation and corporate economy is not sustainable. Waiting would probably lead to the collapse of banks and other financial institutions causing an economic meltdown 100 times worse. Spending a ****ton of money on a stimulus package will keep us in debt for at least another two decades and there's not a guarantee that the amount and length of debt won't have horrible reprocussions.

No one can fix the economy but politically it was a good move to at least try.

 

[Paradoxium]

The system is flawed to begin with. Taking "action" in the form of Obama merely mitigates it for the short term (aka mortgaging the future for what we have now), and make the crash even worse than it needs to be. Alternatively we let it crash now and take less damage.

The only choices are painful meltdown or tolerable meltdown.

People elected for a painful one.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

It's basically a big stage and they are putting a play on for the people. There is nothing "natural" or real about it. It was orchestrated, it was choreographed and we're just the audience that doesn't know any better.

 

[Marx]

How do you feel about his current actions in Afghanistan and Iraq?

How do I feel about President Obama's actions in Afghanistan and Iraq? I believe that ramping up the actions in Afghanistan are entirely justified. (I don't believe we ever should have left Afghanistan without capturing or killing Osama Bin Laden...so concentrating our efforts there is a good thing.) With respect to Iraq, I am glad to see that US forces are finally taking a backseat to the Iraqi forces and are planning for a full withdrawal sooner than later.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

You honestly believe we just couldn't find the guy? The thing with these guys like Saddam and/or Osama, they aren't going to go down because they were partly or fully responsible for killing thousands of people (which Saddam did with help from us, Osama who knows). They're going to get killed or caught when they no longer cooperate with the government and more specifically the World Bank.

Yeah what they get tried for in trials is of course is war crimes, mass murder etc,etc, again that's for us, that's what we need to think. The only reason they're even apprehended or taken out though is because they are no longer are cooperating with the bankers. Some get assassinated, or as it's "reported" by "journalists" a lot of them have conveniently been in plane crashes. If Saddam had taken on loans from the World Bank, he'd still be in power right now, regardless of the amount of lives he's destroyed. It's not the first time, it's been going on since at least the 50s, and it certainly isn't the last time this process gets played out. It's how you build an empire in present day without anyone really even knowing about it. And the majority of the people have no idea how much we live off this clandestine empire, there is more slavery now than ever before.

Money, power, control, those are the reasons. Not because of a nation's population being tortured and slaughtered. That doesn't bother them, it makes no difference.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Obama has cut taxes for 98.6% of working households

 

[Marlboro Man]

He'll probably turn around and raise them again to pay for this healthcare disaster in waiting. If the bill stays the way it is, that is.

 

[redfirebird2008]

He'll probably turn around and raise them again to pay for this healthcare disaster in waiting. If the bill stays the way it is, that is.

Or how about paying for all the crap the people of this country have been too afraid to pay for, including Bush's wars and the "stimulus" spending bill? We keep racking up the debt and putting it off. Eventually it needs to be paid...or we could do what I think we should do: tell the bankers to go screw themselves. There are more of us in this country than there are of them. Why should they have us by the balls based on policies that were enacted by our "leaders" who have been bought off by the bankers in the first place?

 

[Marlboro Man]

I believe people do have a responsibility to pay their taxes. I don't believe we should raise taxes when the economy is so sour.

 

[StorminNorman]

The system is flawed to begin with. Taking "action" in the form of Obama merely mitigates it for the short term (aka mortgaging the future for what we have now), and make the crash even worse than it needs to be. Alternatively we let it crash now and take less damage.

The only choices are painful meltdown or tolerable meltdown.

People elected for a painful one.

Dox, what do you think of the FairTax idea?

 

[Paradoxium]

FairTax won't fix a systemic flaw in the monetary system.

The two are very different issues actually.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

the worst problem we have is "too big to fail"
until we deal with that we fix nothing
imo "too big to fail" is "too big to exist".

it's a national security risk.

 

[Kelly]

Then we should have let those companies fail...and restructure into something better, and hopefully smaller.

TWA turned into Southwest Airlines, and they have done extremely well.....it can, and has happened.

 

[Paradoxium]

The Government is indeed "too big to exist".

 

[redfirebird2008]

The Government is indeed "too big to exist".

Good one. t:

 

[Bob ROARman!]

FairTax won't fix a systemic flaw in the monetary system.

The two are very different issues actually.

Yup. As long as we are under the monetary system, we live and die by profit. And when the mechanism of scarcity of anything means more profit, there will never be a point we can reach where there will be no poverty or war. Money will always stand in the way of that, always. And along with that, no one can ever be trusted to act in truly ethical and/or decent ways. Everyone is at competition with one another for profit.

We have the resources to fix almost all of our problems, but the problem has always been that we are held back so much by this paralyzing profit structure. Money is a barrier to all of it. Stability and abundance will never exist under the monetary system. It's impossible, because it goes against the very nature of the system. Failures are built into it.

And that's why all this debate is kinda pointless, the only real way of attempting change for the better would be a total overhaul, a total redesign of culture from the monetary system. And good luck trying to bring that up in town hall meetings.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

The Government is indeed "too big to exist".

you're welcome to move to Somalia. No real govt. No taxes. No regulations.
just think of the limitless opportunities there.

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society, including the chance to insure"- Oliver Wendell Holmes.

 

[dnno1]

Obama is screwing the economy up. But the Republicans would have done just as horrible of a job.

And the Libertarians would have left it up to the states to figure it out... oh yeah! That's right, more than half of them were in financial trouble themselves so that wouldn't have worked either.

 

[Victarion]

I think that leaving the finanical troubles up to individual states would be a good thing. The states unfit to succeed would collapse and we'd be better for it.