Endgame The Ramificiations of Rapid Population Change

[redhawk23]

Spoilers and such,

While I know there isn't really time to dig into it much the world honestly seems to adjust pretty well to half of all people suddenly disappearing. It's mentioned that "governments are in pieces" or what have you but really, even 5 years on I don't buy that there would be enough of of a civil society to maintain things like support groups or ice cream shops.


The implications of instantly bringing everyone back after 5 years are almost worse. Instantly the human population on earth jumps from 3.3 billion to 7.6 billion...without the attendant 5 years of food and resources production. Grim days ahead there.

Even on an individual level, the ramifications of everyone coming back after 5 years are kind of maddening. Everyone that was left behind continued living and aging in those 5 years. Half of Peter's high school would then be in their 20s when he and the others returned. We see that people try moving on and dating. How many people have new relationships and even children when suddenly their dead partners return?

Everyone would be dealing with trauma of either experiencing their own deaths or living for 5 years with the deaths of others. How many people died of normal non-snap reason during those 5 years, their loved ones returning to find them gone?

But apparently this is a world in American high schools can take field trips to Europe as if nothing happened, in which there are still high schools at all. It's fine for this film, which ends in a very Return of the Jedi fashion, but I don't know how well I can roll with it in the films that follow, particularly Far From Home later this year.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

These sort of implications are part of my issues with the ending they chose.

I get the reasoning to a degree but... I'm sorry I think it's even worse than re-writing history narrative wise. Because I have zero faith in Marvel to really grapple with the implications of the snapture/five year gap/return of the resurrected with the actual depth and weight such an event would have in universe going forward. By any sort of reasoning, logical, emotional what have you, the MCU Earth should be radically different than our own reality. And like I stated I doubt they are going to really show what the fallout of what that would mean for the wider world. Oh sure, they may have it matter to the heroes. It may play into something like the coming of a character like Kang or some such, but it won't really be explored at the level it honestly should be and it's impact would be phenomenally far ranging.


I think that in making this Feige and Co. looked purely at what they felt the audience would respond to in terms of narrative and put aside any logical or in story logistical considerations that would be inherent in story. And... I can't blame them per se.

I mean I have a nit pick about the use of the ARC tech in the MCU. Such a thing would revolutionize the world and have consequences that would delve into society and politics... But that is not why I go to a Marvel film.

On the other hand... The Snapture and the fallout and the resurrections? That's for me WAY bigger than the issues of the implications of the ARC tech. It's just to big. TOO BIG. Anfld I don't see Marvel tackling what that would really mean. The fantasy aspect with both the Gauntlet and time travel at their disposal meant they could have resolved this many ways but they chose one that feels odd and which begs TONS of questions. Suspension of disbelief can be a fragile thing after all.

Now this far from ruins the triumph of this movie. I love it the more I think on it... But the more I think on it as a fanboy type the more the ending sticks out as having issues.

 

[RoastBeast]

Numbers are an issue, too- how many people died in car/plane/helicopter crashes? General disasters caused by the disappearance of the safety operators? Were they all brought back?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

First the economy, agriculture and supply chains of every conceivable business imaginable have had to deal with half the customer base disappearing. Then, after only five years and probably finally adjusting to the new reality... Everyone is back.

And we wanna act like that just goes smoothly?

 

[Spider-Fan83]

yes, they kinda glanced over the fact that they just made this decide on a inner-galaxy scale for all of existence, without even telling anyone, with no political discord/voting from the masses (I get that they knew it was a long shot and maybe didn't want to give people false hope)
but, did then even bother to announce to the world that they about the try to bring people back? did they have any plan in place of how to reintegrate people back into society?

to quote Dr. Malcolm- "they.... were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."

it just leads to so many ethical questions
were they really in the right? did they even have the right?

 

[terry78]

Hopefully someone addresses that in a later movie.

 

[metaphysician]

I tend to be of the opinion that, if your train of thought leads to the idea "No, it is not actually a good idea to stop the galactic scale mass murder of trillions of people", then your train of thought is wrong and you should perhaps consider finding a different one.

 

[shinlyle]

I agree that there should be some sort of ramifications addressed. I know a lot of people would have to be in Hawkeye's position: The only survivor. With that being the case, how many would just end it all after that? I'm wagering that after the snapture, another 10-15% of the population died from fires, disease, lack of food, plane crashes, car crashes, suicides, or other means. Imagine a boat at sea with only half of the people on board surviving, and that half is NOT the crew!

Me, I would personally take this opportunity to introduce a new ruler in Europe who was NOT snapped away, who formed his own country that prospered during everything. Someone who the people love for providing for them and protecting them when their own governments failed them. Perhaps his country is now just appropriated from the borders of several small countries, and now, he resides as the head sovereign of his own nation...magically protected and harboring advanved technologies.

That country is Latveria. And his name....IS....DOOOOOOOM!!

 

[KevTravels]

Hopefully someone addresses that in a later movie.

That the Avngers are really the villains for that decision.

 

[Iceman]

The main ramification of half the world's population coming back suddenly is that people may be forced to share pizza and this could lead to conflict globally.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Spoiler

Not so much an issue connected to the population issue but... Wakanda is seen to be much more integrated into the wider world if that moment with Widow holo conferencing in AEG is to be taken at face value. So... how much have they shared with the rest of the world? In those five years with the world reeling from the snap did they still keep their wondrous tech and resources separate and apart? If so... Kinda makes them *******s given the magnitude of the crisis everyone was dealing with. If so... Shouldn't the MCU Earth be radically different with Wakanda tech more distributed than ever before?

This is why I have issues with keeping that five years and essentially having the MCU Earth now a place where there was an apocalypse that was reversed. This should be a gigantic shift in everything... But it won't be.

 

[terry78]

Ask the russos.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Ask the russos.

They won't answer my calls any more. Not after I sent them my dissertation on Quantum Mechanics and the issues with the branching timeline theory and how it relates to Cap at the end... They were all "It's just a movie. Have you ever kissed a girl?"

 

[SKSpawn]

I kind of feel like, even though Tony specifically told Hulk to only bring back those lost in the snap, the world (and universe) has actually been restored to a version of itself before the snap. Tony also said, "Don't change anything else", which kind of contradicts that but I think there's enough leeway between those two instructions and Hulk's actions to think that he subtley shunted time about so that maybe things aren't much different than they were before the snap.

I honestly don't expect anything to come up that really addresses any of it; they'll refer to it as "the other incident", or something, maybe mention that the world has moved on, but mostly just get one with things as though it's all normal and sorted now.

I do think it would have been better to have reversed the snap completely though because then Tony's sacrifice would be even more heart-wrenching; plus, the film could've ended with Petter discovering she was pregnant or something.

 

[Asharad]

I'm always amazed at the lengths people go through to find technical problems in sci-fantasy movies.

I admit that I point out issues with sci-fi, since those movies tend to follow natural laws. For example the Martian book had a few issues, and the movie had several. On the other hand, the MCU movies have hundreds of problems with science that we must overlook if we want to enjoy the movies. Stark should have died in his prototype the first time he accelerated/decelerated).

 

[terry78]

It does pave the way for Kang the conqueror now as mentioned before.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I'm just going to assume that, whatever the state of the universe ends up being in future movies, Banner must have specifically willed it to be that way. Yeah, Tony told him to only bring the snapped people back, but I think Tony mainly meant that he didn't want Banner to undo the existence of his daughter. Banner still could have shifted reality around to make the unsnappening less of a cluster****. After all, one of the stones is the REALITY stone.

 

[terry78]

He basically did what Thanos did only in reverse and actually weighing all the possibilites unilke him.

 

[Samuron]

Ask the russos.

They won't answer my calls any more. Not after I sent them my dissertation on Quantum Mechanics and the issues with the branching timeline theory and how it relates to Cap at the end... They were all "It's just a movie. Have you ever kissed a girl?"

Best. Post. Ever.

 

[KangConquers]

It does pave the way for Kang the conqueror now as mentioned before.

My time is nigh.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think Kang is going, "Well... I can work with this."

But Immortus is going, "Do these idiots have any idea about how much paperwork this forces me to fill out?!"

 

[metaphysician]

Oh, I am entirely certain Kang would produce *faaaar* more 'paperwork' then the Avengers ever could. They had a fundamentally limited goal in mind, and while they didn't execute it with zero temporal "collateral damage", they endeavored to minimize the disruption.

Kang the Conqueror, by contrast? Is the kind of guy who'd *deliberately* fork a timeline, repeatedly, just so as to set up a specific timeline outcome that he would find useful. And then do it again, and again, and again. . . because he wants to accumulate resources from numerous contradictory possible timelines. Why force yourself to choose between "Recruit post-apocalyptic super mercenary Revengers" and "Take over ship-building infrastructure from Planet Hydra", when you can repeatedly fork the timeline and do both?

 

[x-er]

I agree it should be addressed in a future film, perhaps introducing some cruel politicians who advocate one or two-child policies and other solutions to the issue of overpopulation and sustainability that don't involve a worldwide cull. Marvel was opening the political plane with Civil War and Black Panther which is a good thing. It will be key for when the X-Men come around.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I agree it should be addressed in a future film, perhaps introducing some cruel politicians who advocate one or two-child policies and other solutions to the issue of overpopulation and sustainability that don't involve a worldwide cull. Marvel was opening the political plane with Civil War and Black Panther which is a good thing. It will be key for when the X-Men come around.

You do understand that China is a real large part market with real local politicians willing to ban your product?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Oh, I am entirely certain Kang would produce *faaaar* more 'paperwork' then the Avengers ever could. They had a fundamentally limited goal in mind, and while they didn't execute it with zero temporal "collateral damage", they endeavored to minimize the disruption.

Kang the Conqueror, by contrast? Is the kind of guy who'd *deliberately* fork a timeline, repeatedly, just so as to set up a specific timeline outcome that he would find useful. And then do it again, and again, and again. . . because he wants to accumulate resources from numerous contradictory possible timelines. Why force yourself to choose between "Recruit post-apocalyptic super mercenary Revengers" and "Take over ship-building infrastructure from Planet Hydra", when you can repeatedly fork the timeline and do both?

Yeah... Except that of course...

Spoiler

Kang IS Immortus. So he's not gonna stress about the paper work he made for himself. Also... It was a joke.