The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

[Willie Lumpkin]

Consider for a moment the entirety of Fox's Marvel film catalog that weren't directed by Bryan Singer:


Daredevil - Miss
FF - Miss
Elektra - Miss
X-Men: The Last Stand - Miss
FF2 - Miss
X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Miss
X-Men: First Class - Hit
The Wolverine - Eh
Fant4stic - Miss
Deadpool - Hit
Logan - Hit

Taking Bryan Singer away, Fox has had 7 bad films, 3 good films and 1 mediocre film.

That's a pretty awful track record when they haven't had Bryan Singer to save them.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If you ask me this franchise has never been where it should be. I love X2, but that was 14 years ago. Understood in context it's great, but Fox has never truly embraced the material beyond the political themes. #retread #newblood

I remember when the first X-Men came out, I felt like: "This is a pretty good movie, but it really doesn't feel like the X-Men. It feels like it's 'inspired by' the X-Men."

And they have never really progressed beyond that point.

 

[Darepool]

I remember when the first X-Men came out, I felt like: "This is a pretty good movie, but it really doesn't feel like the X-Men. It feels like it's 'inspired by' the X-Men."

And they have never really progressed beyond that point.

I though DP was the sign they may have turned the corner, but it seems the X-Men are still stuck in the the past. Literally and figuratively.

 

[The Infernal]

I find the first X-men film hard to revisit. It's not bad, but when there are better superhero movies and even X-men films it doesn't age too well. It also isn't the most exciting film either.

 

[WeaponXCII]

It's so crazy that, with the Kinberg announcement, the return of not only one, but two- the final two, pragmatically speaking- franchises to Marvel seems so imminent!

 

[TheVileOne]

It's so crazy that, with the Kinberg announcement, the return of not only one, but two- the final two, pragmatically speaking- franchises to Marvel seems so imminent!

They are far from imminent.

 

[Chris B]

It seems like common sense to not advertise to Fox if you *did* have plans (or even just a strong desire) to bring back or use the Fantastic Four, since that would just give them power at the negotiating table. Never let the other side know that you are hungry for what they are selling, it only jacks the price and gives them an advantage.

The best thing Marvel Studios can do, from a bargaining standpoint, is shrug and say, 'Whatever, we've got 1000 other properties begging for development, and we developed Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man to *prove* that we don't need the Fantastic Four or X-Men, but can make a mega-hit franchise out of literally anything.' As a bonus, that happens to be factually true (had GotG or Ant-Man spectacularly flopped, it could have gone the other way, and suggested that Marvel *needed* the FF or X-Men to succeed), which only strengthens Marvel's bargaining position.

Convince the other side that what they are holding onto so desperately is practically worthless to you, and the price goes down. Let them know that you strongly desire that property, and cash signs appear in their eyes, and you end up having to pay many times as much.

Exactly. I'm not really sure what people are expecting him to say.

 

[Vader's Fist]

Recently, I stumbled across this quote from Kevin Feige:

Now, obviously, I don't know the man, but up until I discovered this, I'd assumed that Feige has been a mega fan of the entire Marvel Comics Pantheon his whole life. After all, he was said to have impressed Lauren Shuler Donner with a near encyclopedic knowledge of the Marvel Universe. After, reading it though, I considered the possibility that those 'certain characters' he mentions as liking may not include characters outside Marvel Studios (except for Spidey because, hey, who doesn't love Spidey)? Now, of course, he could be phrasing it like this because, he doesn't want to admit to liking characters owned by other studios. However, some comments have to be taken at face-value. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, including my own, but what if his favoritism for only particular characters is the reason behind the constant reply of "No Plans" regarding the F4 and X-Men? I should also make clear that it's not my intention to talk trash about the guy after all he's done for the fans and the genre, but, still, I thought it's worth thinking about.

 

[Drseuss]

I never read the Demon Bear arc. I don't care about the Demon Bear arc. I have no interest in New Mutants. I won't see the New Mutants movie. That was true a week ago, that's true today, and that will be true 3 years from now.

But funny is funny. And the fact that those quotes could have been applied to Fant4stic while at the same time claiming to be "very, very different" is funny.

i know, i know. someone who has never read that comics complains it isnt like the comics.

 

[Panacea]

Recently, I stumbled across this quote from Kevin Feige:

Now, obviously, I don't know the man, but up until I discovered this, I'd assumed that Feige has been a mega fan of the entire Marvel Comics Pantheon his whole life. After all, he was said to have impressed Lauren Shuler Donner with a near encyclopedic knowledge of the Marvel Universe. After, reading it though, I considered the possibility that those 'certain characters' he mentions as liking may not include characters outside Marvel Studios (except for Spidey because, hey, who doesn't love Spidey)? Now, of course, he could be phrasing it like this because, he doesn't want to admit to liking characters owned by other studios. However, some comments have to be taken at face-value. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, including my own, but what if his favoritism for only particular characters is the reason behind the constant reply of "No Plans" regarding the F4 and X-Men? I should also make clear that it's not my intention to talk trash about the guy after all he's done for the fans and the genre, but, still, I thought it's worth thinking about.

Where is that quote from?

 

[Vader's Fist]

Recently, I stumbled across this quote from Kevin Feige:

Now, obviously, I don't know the man, but up until I discovered this, I'd assumed that Feige has been a mega fan of the entire Marvel Comics Pantheon his whole life. After all, he was said to have impressed Lauren Shuler Donner with a near encyclopedic knowledge of the Marvel Universe. After, reading it though, I considered the possibility that those 'certain characters' he mentions as liking may not include characters outside Marvel Studios (except for Spidey because, hey, who doesn't love Spidey)? Now, of course, he could be phrasing it like this because, he doesn't want to admit to liking characters owned by other studios. However, some comments have to be taken at face-value. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, including my own, but what if his favoritism for only particular characters is the reason behind the constant reply of "No Plans" regarding the F4 and X-Men? I should also make clear that it's not my intention to talk trash about the guy after all he's done for the fans and the genre, but, still, I thought it's worth thinking about.

Where is that quote from?

MAJOR mess up on my part with sincerest apologies. I did a bit of digging and it turns out that quote is actually from Shane Black during an interview with him and Feige, when promoting Iron Man 3:

http://screenrant.com/iron-man-4-tony-stark-future/

So to summarise my feelings:

 

[Joe Rockhead]

I actually think if (against all odds) Kinberg makes a great film, that's good for us.

That will allow Fox to continue focusing on X-Men instead of FF (plus, if even their golden boy was unable to make FF work, it will further convince Fox management that it's impossible to make a good FF film).

If, on the other hand (as is far more likely), Phoenix sucks, then what? Kinberg will have put Fox's golden-egg-laying goose on life support and they'll start to get desperate - and that desperation could lead them to look at FF again as an option.

I think the best thing for us is for Fox to continue to cruise and be successful with their X-efforts, but Kinberg as director makes that very unlikely.

I'm not so sure about that. As I recall, he stated in the past that one of the reasons he wants to do Dark Phoenix is the chance to correct the mistakes that were made on The Last Stand.

If he IS successful, it just may embolden him and the Fox execs that he can do the same for Fantastic Four.

Definitely torn on the issue, I want to see a good version of Dark Phoenix.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

i know, i know. someone who has never read that comics complains it isnt like the comics.

Huh? Where did I say it wasn't like the comics.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm not so sure about that. As I recall, he stated in the past that one of the reasons he wants to do Dark Phoenix is the chance to correct the mistakes that were made on The Last Stand.

If he IS successful, it just may embolden him and the Fox execs that he can do the same for Fantastic Four.

Definitely torn on the issue, I want to see a good version of Dark Phoenix.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Fox, I'm reminded of something I was told in Australia. A guy I was with told me: "There's no sense in trying to swerve when you see a kangaroo crossing the road. They jump around so randomly, you don't know which way they're going to go and they're just as likely to go the way you're swerving as not. Just keep going straight and hope for the best."

Fox's actions are similarly so lacking in logic, that it's probably foolish to try to even guess what direction they're going to go.

 

[WeaponXCII]

They are far from imminent.

Relatively imminent, I mean. Some of the users here, like Willie (Gary), have been waiting decades upon decades for these things to happen.

 

[TheVileOne]

Relatively imminent, I mean. Some of the users here, like Willie (Gary), have been waiting decades upon decades for these things to happen.

Relatively I would say is also unrealistic

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Relatively I would say is also unrealistic

Yeah, the X-Men film franchise is still making money in FOX. So it'll remain there at the moment.

Fantastic Four? Yeah, the waiting game continues until we hear an official source pertaining to the rights, whether Marvel has them back or (shudder) FOX decides to reboot the franchise yet again, something that I doubt anyone wants.

 

[wobbly]

I'm not so sure about that. As I recall, he stated in the past that one of the reasons he wants to do Dark Phoenix is the chance to correct the mistakes that were made on The Last Stand.

If he IS successful, it just may embolden him and the Fox execs that he can do the same for Fantastic Four.

Definitely torn on the issue, I want to see a good version of Dark Phoenix.

Of all possible outcomes Dark Phoenix being a big enough hit to convince Fox Kinberg could do the same for the FF doesn't seem very likely, but stranger things have happened.

An obvious difference is where each franchise currently stands. X-Men are not as huge as the MCU atm and have arguably dropped behind the DCEU now, but they are still a draw, and Fox have landed success and praise beyond the core films with Deadpool, Logan and Legion.

The FF in their hands though are thoroughly damaged goods (in no small part due to Simon). There's no building on what came before, they have to start over again.

Should Kinberg defy my expectations (considerably) and deliver a great Phoenix film it might put us FF fans in a bit of pickle. On the one hand we want the FF back with Marvel, but on the other, if he surprises many and proves he is a great film maker, would it be so bad to let him work that magic on the FF?

But tbh that seems like the least likely scenario to play out given his resume. I think Dark Phoenix, with him getting a lot of help, could be a decent enough film to keep him in a job, but right now I cant see it being something so huge it would have Fox turning back to the FF for another try.

As ever though, wait & see.

 

[Dark Raven]

Of all possible outcomes Dark Phoenix being a big enough hit to convince Fox Kinberg could do the same for the FF doesn't seem very likely, but stranger things have happened.

An obvious difference is where each franchise currently stands. X-Men are not as huge as the MCU atm and have arguably dropped behind the DCEU now, but they are still a draw, and Fox have landed success and praise beyond the core films with Deadpool, Logan and Legion.

The FF in their hands though are thoroughly damaged goods (in no small part due to Simon). There's no building on what came before, they have to start over again.

Should Kinberg defy my expectations (considerably) and deliver a great Phoenix film it might put us FF fans in a bit of pickle. On the one hand we want the FF back with Marvel, but on the other, if he surprises many and proves he is a great film maker, would it be so bad to let him work that magic on the FF?

But tbh that seems like the least likely scenario to play out given his resume. I think Dark Phoenix, with him getting a lot of help, could be a decent enough film to keep him in a job, but right now I cant see it being something so huge it would have Fox turning back to the FF for another try.

As ever though, wait & see.

Kinberg has already worked his magic on the FF. It was called Fant4stic. I don't want to see more of his magic touch.

 

[NealKenneth]

As I see the plans for Dark Phoenix roll out, I'm anticipating a Sony-like deal with Disney for the X-Men sometime in the early 2020s. They will reboot using a Netflix series similar to The Defenders or Inhumans.

FF will revert naturally or be given back early as part of the deal.

 

[wobbly]

Kinberg has already worked his magic on the FF. It was called Fant4stic. I don't want to see more of his magic touch.

Just playing devils advocate, lol,

Ask me to put money on it my bet would go on Kinbergs efforts with Dark Phoenix being lacking. A lot.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Of all possible outcomes Dark Phoenix being a big enough hit to convince Fox Kinberg could do the same for the FF doesn't seem very likely, but stranger things have happened.

An obvious difference is where each franchise currently stands. X-Men are not as huge as the MCU atm and have arguably dropped behind the DCEU now, but they are still a draw, and Fox have landed success and praise beyond the core films with Deadpool, Logan and Legion.

The FF in their hands though are thoroughly damaged goods (in no small part due to Simon). There's no building on what came before, they have to start over again.

Should Kinberg defy my expectations (considerably) and deliver a great Phoenix film it might put us FF fans in a bit of pickle. On the one hand we want the FF back with Marvel, but on the other, if he surprises many and proves he is a great film maker, would it be so bad to let him work that magic on the FF?

But tbh that seems like the least likely scenario to play out given his resume. I think Dark Phoenix, with him getting a lot of help, could be a decent enough film to keep him in a job, but right now I cant see it being something so huge it would have Fox turning back to the FF for another try.

As ever though, wait & see.

Let's step back for a moment and think about the extremely unlikely hypothetical in which Kinberg delivers an amazing X-Film.

What happens next? That would be 2018 and the X-Men would be riding high with their new Bryan Singer. In that situation, would Kinberg and Fox turn their backs on X-Men to gamble with FF, or would Kinberg start working on 2020 and 2022 X-Films?

I have to imagine the latter is far more likely. Kinberg would have to recognize he got lucky and his chances of continuing to be successful would lie with X-Men rather than FF (and I don't think Fox management would argue), so he'd have his hands full with X-Men until after the FF rights had already reverted.

 

[NealKenneth]

Good point! Reason #573 that the MCU will have FF characters for Phase 4.

 

[dax]

Consider for a moment the entirety of Fox's Marvel film catalog that weren't directed by Bryan Singer:


Daredevil - Miss
FF - Miss
Elektra - Miss
X-Men: The Last Stand - Miss
FF2 - Miss
X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Miss
X-Men: First Class - Hit
The Wolverine - Eh
Fant4stic - Miss
Deadpool - Hit
Logan - Hit

Taking Bryan Singer away, Fox has had 7 bad films, 3 good films and 1 mediocre film.

That's a pretty awful track record when they haven't had Bryan Singer to save them.

First, I don't consider "Eh" as a miss since most fans and general audiences enjoyed the Wolverine very much. Second, even with this list, it still demonstrates that FOX is more successful with the X-men than with other comic book characters. In fact they've been recently successful regardless of Bryan Singer not directing especially after the releases of Deadpool, Logan, and Legion tv series. No matter what people think of Simon Kinberg, it's still too early to assume that the X-men franchise is doomed because the next films could surprise us just as the Wonder Woman film did.

 

[InCali]

MAJOR mess up on my part with sincerest apologies. I did a bit of digging and it turns out that quote is actually from Shane Black during an interview with him and Feige, when promoting Iron Man 3:

http://screenrant.com/iron-man-4-tony-stark-future/

So to summarise my feelings:

No worry. We promise not to flush.