The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Detective Conan]

I wish Marvel had Fantastic Four at the beginning. Not so much X-Men. Because there is no question in my mind that Fantastic Four would be the one to start everything off instead of Iron Man. Can you imagine a Marvel Studios Fantastic Four film starting off the MCU in 2008? I mean instead of Thanos it'd be Galactus that the Avengers would be fighting in Avengers 3 and 4.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I wish Marvel had Fantastic Four at the beginning. Not so much X-Men. Because there is no question in my mind that Fantastic Four would be the one to start everything off instead of Iron Man. Can you imagine a Marvel Studios Fantastic Four film starting off the MCU in 2008? I mean instead of Thanos it'd be Galactus that the Avengers would be fighting in Avengers 3 and 4.

Yeah, and I think we would have gotten a cosmic film soon enough. It just may have featured Silver Surfer instead of GOTG. And once they had established the cosmic elements, I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOTG would have shown up in some form.

 

[InCali]

Yeah, and I think we would have gotten a cosmic film soon enough. It just may have featured Silver Surfer instead of GOTG. And once they had established the cosmic elements, I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOTG would have shown up in some form.

I'm gonna stay happy with what we've got. We DID get GotG and that, to me, was an unexpected blessing. Now we've got the FF back and we're set for (easily) the next 10 years. I have my favorite SH team to look forward to and if we had started out with them instead of IM, the FF would probably be behind us.

Sincerely,
Pollyanna

 

[Kuwolski]

I have a hard time believing the MCU would have turned out better if they started out with the FF. From a symbolic/historic perspective, sure, you start with the First Family, but I think things ultimately worked out for the best, especially now that the FF are home. It forced Marvel to make other character's icons, which they did.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm gonna stay happy with what we've got. We DID get GotG and that, to me, was an unexpected blessing. Now we've got the FF back and we're set for (easily) the next 10 years. I have my favorite SH team to look forward to and if we had started out with them instead of IM, the FF would probably be behind us.

Sincerely,
Pollyanna

I have a hard time believing the MCU would have turned out better if they started out with the FF. From a symbolic/historic perspective, sure, you start with the First Family, but I think things ultimately worked out for the best, especially now that the FF are home. It forced Marvel to make other character's icons, which they did.

Yeah, and if you step back and think about it, it really worked out in a way it may not have if the FF had been there from the start.

The first real Marvel film (debatable because of the gray-area Hulk) was Iron Man, and that was a relatively simple film. Then they added Cap and Thor in their own relatively simple films. Then they brought them all together for their first epic Avengers film.

Would FF had worked as well if they started there? If they started with an FF film, they would have needed a bigger budget and more risk. Then, after we had seen a multi-character FF film we'd be getting smaller Iron Man, Captain America etc. which might have felt small and something of a let-down after a big FF film. And if they had tried to do FF small, that would have created its own problems.

But now they're really ready. They've done big films. They've done cosmic films. They know much, much more now about what they're doing than they did when Iron Man first came out and they're ready to tackle the FF and get them right from the start.

As an FF and Marvel fan, it would have been great to see the FF as the first heroes and the foundation for the MCU, but realistically we may have been fortunate that things worked out as they did.

... now please, please, please, Mr. Feige, don't let FF be the first one you really screw up.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, I think that's true.

Does it really matter if it's true or not? We got Guardians of the Galaxy, and that's great. But at the same time, isn't a couple years after Avengers 4 a great time to get the likes of X-Men and Fantastic Four? A fresh set of heroes for the MCU.

 

[Iceman]

Does it really matter if it's true or not? We got Guardians of the Galaxy, and that's great. But at the same time, isn't a couple years after Avengers 4 a great time to get the likes of X-Men and Fantastic Four? A fresh set of heroes for the MCU.

No it doesn't matter.

 

[Zarex]

The first real Marvel film (debatable because of the gray-area Hulk) was Iron Man, and that was a relatively simple film. Then they added Cap and Thor in their own relatively simple films. Then they brought them all together for their first epic Avengers film.

Yeah, in hindsight we can see how perfect Iron Man was as a launching point for the MCU. "Billionaire (genius, philanthropist) weapons developer builds armor to fight terrorists" was a very grounded story, much more so IMO than Nolan's series about a trust fund orphan dressing up like a bat to fight the mob. IM may not have worked as well as a follow up to an FF film.

 

[Detective Conan]

Would FF had worked as well if they started there? If they started with an FF film, they would have needed a bigger budget and more risk. Then, after we had seen a multi-character FF film we'd be getting smaller Iron Man, Captain America etc. which might have felt small and something of a let-down after a big FF film. And if they had tried to do FF small, that would have created its own problems.

I'd argue that Marvel has already followed up their big epic event movies with something smaller afterwards in when they released Ant-Man after Age Of Ultron but I see what your saying.

As an FF and Marvel fan, it would have been great to see the FF as the first heroes and the foundation for the MCU, but realistically we may have been fortunate that things worked out as they did.

But it's going to be interesting seeing what Fiege and co. do. Will the Four have always existed like before the present in the 60's and they simply got trapped in the Negative Zone, and traveled to the present?

Or will they just make the FF exist in modern times after the Avengers and Spider-Man have debuted?

That would be strange if the went that way IMO. Iron Man and the Avengers have already taken the "superhero celebrities'' status in the MCU that FF had in the comics. The FF are basically the "Superhero Beatles." They are the primordial Marvel characters because even though technically Cap and the Namor came first--the FF are the ones that started off the Marvel universe as we know it.

Without Fantastic Four there would be no Marvel universe in the comics, which means without the FF there would be no Marvel Cinematic Universe. So it's kind of like not having Superman debut in DCEU until years later but doing everyone else first.

... now please, please, please, Mr. Feige, don't let FF be the first one you really screw up.

The closest to Feige screwing up was Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World and even those movies are better than any Fantastic Four Fox has made.

 

[InCali]

... now please, please, please, Mr. Feige, don't let FF be the first one you really screw up.

The closest to Feige screwing up was Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World and even those movies are better than any Fantastic Four Fox has made.

It still makes me nervous though.....

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The closest to Feige screwing up was Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World and even those movies are better than any Fantastic Four Fox has made.

It still makes me nervous though.....

Yeah, I get this weird, irrational fear - like they've only got X number of good films they can do and once they use that number up, we're screwed.

 

[InCali]

Yeah, I get this weird, irrational fear - like they've only got X number of good films they can do and once they use that number up, we're screwed.

I just keep thinking "At some point, they've GOT to screw SOMETHING up really bad....please don't let it be FF."

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I just keep thinking "At some point, they've GOT to screw SOMETHING up really bad....please don't let it be FF."

Yeah, I specifically remember sitting in the theater watching Ragnarok and thinking: "Wow! They did it again. How can they keep doing this? They're due for a stinker that will probably coincide with FF."

 

[Detective Conan]

Am I the only one who thinks New Mutants looks utterly terrible? I keep seeing these delusional Fox-fans praise New Mutants as something 'different' and 'new' when all I see is a cheap-looking wannabe horror film using X-Men characters. The movie looks so uninspired to me. I'm all for trying new things with superhero movies and they should all be different or else people will tire of them, but honestly New Mutants looks like a dud IMO. I always roll my eyes whenever people use New Mutants as an example of the dumb argument that ''Fox being risky and unique while Marvel movies are all samey.''

The movie doesn't look good at all so I just won't bother.

 

[Orba]

Am I the only one who thinks New Mutants looks utterly terrible? I keep seeing these delusional Fox-fans praise New Mutants as something 'different' and 'new' when all I see is a cheap-looking wannabe horror film using X-Men characters. The movie looks so uninspired to me. I'm all for trying new things with superhero movies and they should all be different or else people will tire of them, but honestly New Mutants looks like a dud IMO. I always roll my eyes whenever people use New Mutants as an example of the dumb argument that ''Fox being risky and unique while Marvel movies are all samey.''

The movie doesn't good at all. I just won't bother.

Don't worry, its not just you. The trailer looked like a generic low budget indy horror movie trailer.

 

[Detective Conan]

The fact that movie got pushed back 10 months is super-alarming. Not even Fan4stic which actually had a plethora of negative rumors about it's production drama got delayed. Something smells fishy. I don't buy the ''whole reshoots to make it scarier'' PR thing.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, I get this weird, irrational fear - like they've only got X number of good films they can do and once they use that number up, we're screwed.

Doesn’t look like it mate. The films are getting better if anything.

 

[chestnu1]

Honestly I would not be surprised if the movie is bad and Fox pushed it back to 2019 for two reasons.

1. Fox doesn't have to try and work on a sequel for a movie that Marvel Studios will cancel the second the deal is approved by regulators and is completed. Don't forget Fox has to keep operating like they are not going to be bought until the deal is approved and keep working on future projects. But it makes sense to put their time and resources into developing projects that will actually get made.

2. (I realize that this one sounds a tad crazy) So assuming that the deal is done within the year, Disney will acquire Fox before the release of the movie. They can then promptly cancel the release of the movie all together under the guise of it isn't part of the MCU and that they don't want to confuse the general audience. They can then take the write off and the people execs who authorized the movie and producers who made the movie don't have to look bad to their new corporate bosses.

 

[wobbly]

I'd add 3: pushing it back allows time for reshoots that can alter the film enough to be MCU compatible.

Not saying that's likely btw. But in theory they could have that option (assuming the film is not terrible and New Mutants is a franchise worth continuing).

 

[WeaponXCII]

The fact that movie got pushed back 10 months is super-alarming. Not even Fan4stic which actually had a plethora of negative rumors about it's production drama got delayed. Something smells fishy. I don't buy the ''whole reshoots to make it scarier'' PR thing.

Hadn't realized this until now, but quick thought: isn't that, like, one of the most important duties of a competent director? To make sure that their artistic and directorial vision gets translated onto the screen? To make sure that their comedies are comedic enough, their dramas are dramatic enough, their actioners are actiony enough, their thrillers are thrilling enough... their horrors horrific enough??? I mean, I don't expect Boone or other directors to be clairvoyant, but come on- there's literally a saying that goes "know your audience"!

 

[UltimatePyro9]

The fact that movie got pushed back 10 months is super-alarming. Not even Fan4stic which actually had a plethora of negative rumors about it's production drama got delayed. Something smells fishy. I don't buy the ''whole reshoots to make it scarier'' PR thing.

Technically it did. Fant4stic was supposed to premiere on March 5, 2015, then June 19, and finally August 7.

But yeah. Not looking forward to the New Mutants no matter when it premieres.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I suspect part of the reason Fox was willing to sell is they know the X-Men franchise is in serious trouble.

I expect Dark Phoenix to be painfully bad.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Technically it did. Fant4stic was supposed to premiere on March 5, 2015, then June 19, and finally August 7.

But yeah. Not looking forward to the New Mutants no matter when it premieres.

But with FF, those dates got pushed back because they kept pushing back the start (and were working on the script right up until the last minute).

This is particularly unusual in getting this far before being delayed.

 

[TheVileOne]

Am I the only one who thinks New Mutants looks utterly terrible? I keep seeing these delusional Fox-fans praise New Mutants as something 'different' and 'new' when all I see is a cheap-looking wannabe horror film using X-Men characters. The movie looks so uninspired to me. I'm all for trying new things with superhero movies and they should all be different or else people will tire of them, but honestly New Mutants looks like a dud IMO. I always roll my eyes whenever people use New Mutants as an example of the dumb argument that ''Fox being risky and unique while Marvel movies are all samey.''

The movie doesn't look good at all so I just won't bother.

I wouldn't say terrible, but IMHO it didn't look great. I don't get why some fans were raving about it. Yeah maybe it looks different from your typical comic book superhero fare, but yeah it also looked like a pretty generic horror film. I didn't really get it. Why are you making the New Mutants into a haunted house story type of horror film?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I'd bet fox thought they could get out cheap if they yet again made a movie set in a bunker or facility or whatever.