The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - Part 17

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by Thread Manager, Apr 4, 2018.

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  1. Art Freak

    Art Freak Devourer of Worlds

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    Actually, APES is all they have going for them. Quietly, a fantastic trilogy. I’m normally with you 1000%, Willie, but I had to speak up on that one.
     
    #126
  2. wobbly

    wobbly Occasional Scribbler

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    Not sure where they can go with Apes after the last one.

    Jumping to the future and Astronaut Taylor seems like the next logical step (and they dropped the hints for that in the first film) but it lacks a big impact without the twist ending the original had.

    I'd add the films, though well received by critics, diminished in box office returns each go too.
     
    #127
  3. Gamma Goliath

    Gamma Goliath Engine of Destruction

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    The last one was a pretty nice wrap up. He left it where if there's more it's open on where you can go, and if there's no sequel then there's a good trilogy that was satisfying from start to finish.
     
    #128
  4. Willie Lumpkin

    Willie Lumpkin Trophy Husband

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    I'm not saying the last film was bad, but War made $490 million after Dawn made $710 million. Audiences are losing interest, and because of the nature of the films, I don't feel like the last film left audiences excited to see what comes next.
     
    #129
  5. Gamma Goliath

    Gamma Goliath Engine of Destruction

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    The last one flew under the radar quite a bit imo.
     
    #130
  6. Willie Lumpkin

    Willie Lumpkin Trophy Husband

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    I would be interested to see an updated take on the original, but you're right - it can't be done the same way. Presumably he would be coming back to what he knows as Earth and would be in for a shock, but there wouldn't be the same mystery and generally spooky quality.
     
    #131
  7. Willie Lumpkin

    Willie Lumpkin Trophy Husband

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    I have a feeling audiences didn't get excited because it looked and felt too much like the second film. There was such a dramatic progression from the first to second film that audiences were curious and wanted to see how what happened. I think the trailers for the new one felt too much like more of the same.
     
    #132
  8. Marvel united

    Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    I honestly feel like it was because the title and trailers were misleading. It wasn't really a "War". More like a quest. I was expecting this huge, epic final showdown between human and Ape and we never really got that in the movie.
     
    #133
  9. Willie Lumpkin

    Willie Lumpkin Trophy Husband

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    Yeah, it was different than I was expecting - partly because it felt like a step backward.

    In the second film, the apes seemed to be taking over. They were more fit to survive in the new environment, and the humans seemed to be clinging to the past, soft and on the way out.

    I went into the last film (partly because of the title as you mention, but also because of where we left off in film 2 ) expecting it to be the human's last stand with them desperate and struggling against an overwhelming and growing ape population.

    If they had gone that way, then the next logical step would be Taylor coming back to a true "Planet of the Apes", but after taking that apparent step back in film three, I don't know where they go from here.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  10. Dark Raven

    Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    They can go Beneath the Planet of the Apes and have a society worshipping a nuclear bomb.
     
    #135
  11. Big Bang

    Big Bang Well-Known Member

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    Individual films? Maybe. Franchises? Not so much. Like everyone else pointed out the Apes trilogy, and there is Avatar, but that is by far more James Cameron driven than Fox.

    If anything Fox has shown they simply cannot handle franchise level film properties. They were never really equipped to handle these kind of properties the way Disney, Warner, or Universal are. Honestly Fox's TV divisions are more adept at that than their film partners are. At this point, 20th Century Fox has started to amass a graveyard of failed film franchises, which is rather sad given how great some of them initially were.
     
    #136
  12. Iceman

    Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Apes has been great, but the issue is that not all properties are equally suited to be a persistent franchise with 20+ films. Titanic for eg was a record breaker with zero sequel potential.
     
    #137
  13. wobbly

    wobbly Occasional Scribbler

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    Tbh I think they did set it up for a remake of the original if they wanted to go there: In War, though it was mostly humans vs humans in the final battle, they introduced the mutated simian virus which now robbed humans of the capacity for speech and presumably regressed mental faculties. The virus was also making all apes intelligent, not just those exposed to the original Ceasar formula. The Moses ending with Ceasar's death having taken his tribe to a promised land makes it a logical presumption they would evolve into a more advanced society over time, while the remaining humans eventually devolve succumbing to the mutated strain.

    So I think they did make it clear the future in that world is gonna play out like the original in the long run and all humans around for the time when Taylor comes back are regressed and mute and treated as primitives by the now fully evolved apes.

    But like I said before, redoing the future Taylor story is not gonna have that same impact as they cant do that big reveal. A big part of what makes the original so memorable was that "Damn them all to hell" Statue of Liberty ending (imo).

    It could still work with a good creative mind on the job, just don't expect any big twist at the end. Trying to do one could well be as bad as Burton's bizarre attempt (I still don't understand that one. At all).

    I'd add I recall reading Matt Reeves having ideas of where he'd go for another one. I think it would be more about Apes having taken over and the in fighting between them as they progress to a point where the original film would pick up. I got the impression he had no intention of redoing Taylors story, bur rather planned on elaborating on how the world eventually gets to that original 'Planet of the Apes'.
     
    #138
  14. Spiderine

    Spiderine Sho nuff

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    Well your right about that. Didn't they try to pull Independence Day out of the old attic?

    I don't think the Apes franchise is going to new heights. But I was primarily referring to what FOX had coming out before this deal close by middle of next year thats not Marvel related. I have no idea whats going on with Avatar 2.
     
    #139
  15. Willie Lumpkin

    Willie Lumpkin Trophy Husband

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    And you didn't mention the most obvious hint - Nova.

    Your last paragraph is the story I'd like to see before Taylor arrives. The way this has been going, I think we need to see the development of an ape culture (with them as unambiguous rulers), before we jump into Taylor.

    But as something of a purist (The first film I actually remember seeing as a child was the original and I can still remember the anticipation, fear etc. I felt as five or six year old watching it for the first time.), I'm a little disappointed that we'll never really get something close to the original.

    And I blame the first film for that. I wish that the cause had been more attributable to human violence rather than simply carelessly fooling with things they didn't understand, and I wish the setting had been more futuristic so a long-distance, near light-speed mission could have been possible.

    If/when Taylor returns, he'll be coming back to an Earth that he knows is the Earth, and the apes won't have had hundreds (or thousands?) of years to develop their own culture and forget the way things used to be.

    As with the movies we've seen, we may get interesting stories, but we won't get stories that match, as closely as I'd like, the story I remember as a child.
     
    #140
  16. Dark Raven

    Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    They can remake the first film more or less as it was but just don't make it that the final twist is a big twist. It's something we would all know now. One way to distinguish it is to have it be something else other than the Statue of Liberty.

    In the 1976 King Kong, Kong climbed up the World Trade Center instead of the Empire State Building. They replaced one iconic building with another.

    They could have Lady Justice at the Old Bailey in London.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Taylor could stand atop it like Wonder Woman while it sticks out of the sand.

    Then he'll wonder why all those apes didn't sound British at all throughout the whole film but American instead.

    He'll beat his hands on the ground and say they've finally done it! The Americans have finally taken over Great Britain! That could be the big twist! :eek:
     
    #141
  17. Shinobi Shaw

    Shinobi Shaw The Black King of THC

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    They really did miss the boat by not making "War" just a direct remake of '68 Apes.

    Would've been a nice full circle since we did get that news clip of the Icarus being launched into space in "Rise".
     
    #142
  18. Dark Raven

    Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    War sounds more like it would be a remake of Battle for the Planet of the Apes.
     
    #143
  19. Jordacar

    Jordacar The Endless One

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    Yeah, there were elements of Conquest and Battle sprinkled throughout the new trilogy. Not exactly remakes, but I rather liked that they worked to make the new films stand on their own rather than having everything line up with a bunch of 40+ year old films that most of the target audience hasn't seen.
     
    #144
  20. ADollarADay

    ADollarADay Well-Known Member

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    Fox produces the Avatar movies as well.
     
    #145
  21. Detective Conan

    Detective Conan Well-Known Member

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    The Russo Brothers putting the nail in the coffin to those Silver Surfer rumors.

    “I don’t think we own Silver Surfer, But it’s fan-wish fulfillment and, you know, if this Disney-Fox deal goes through there’s going to be a lot more characters coming into the Marvel universe, so some of those crazy fan theories might come true."

    Indeed. If the deal goes through early enough we may possibly see him in a post-credit scene in Avengers 4(whatever its called) but don’t expect to see the herald of the devourer-of-worlds in Earth’s Mightiest Heroes third installment.
     
    #146
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  22. Shinobi Shaw

    Shinobi Shaw The Black King of THC

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    Silver Surfer would be dope for the post credits of Avengers 4 or even just having Galactus himself saying "I'm hungry" and he stares at Earth.
     
    #147
  23. Marvel united

    Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    Man, I just want this deal to be done already :funny:
     
    #148
  24. GoblinScrier

    GoblinScrier Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have had stuck in my head 2 credits (the mid and post) for Avengers 4...one is the mid which sets up Doom sitting on his Latverian throne and the other is the post which shows space, far away, the Surfer is hovering on his board, saying "Master, another planet awaits..." and we pan to Galactus "Yes herald, the great hunger is upon me."
     
    #149
  25. Docker2.0

    Docker2.0 Watchin' you!

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    They didn't say no. They teased that they don't own them, which we know is in process and also Fox has allowed them to use their characters in the past. Just playing Devil's advocate.
     
    #150
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