The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[WeaponXCII]

I thought the trailer was great. Really captured the gravity of the situation.

And they dropped it on us out of nowhere less than a week before the X-Men and Fantastic Four coming home. What a time to be a Marvel fan!

 

[Marvel united]

It's as simple as mutants having a small population and being in hiding, but more and more mutants are being born. Meaning that very soon it's going to be impossible to hide. After the Thanos situation they thought people were ready to know about them, but they were wrong. Tensions are higher and anything that's not "normal" is looked on with contempt even moreso after the events of Infinity War and Endgame.

There you have a reason why we never heard about them and a reason why they are appearing now. I'm sure Marvel can come up with something even better.

I honestly don't care for the "They're in hiding" theory because it treats mutants as a monolith. Of course there are sub-groups and factions of mutants that hide (i.e Morlocks, Hellfire Club) but it's nigh impossible to hide the existence of the mutant species as a whole and especially not for the 80+ years that heroes started showing up in the MCU. You can't hide something that happens in the blink of an eye, and in any place, at any time. It's like trying to hide the existence of natural disasters. The reason why mutants are such a huge problem in the comics is because of their spontaneous, uncontrollable, unpredictable nature. If mutants can just "hide" as a monolith like Wakandans then there's no reason for any civilian nor politician to be paranoid and scared about them. Politicans and world governments can just treat the non-existent threat of "mutants" with diplomatic prudence. Just have Magneto and Charles build Genosha and nobody will ever have to worry about some random kid accidently destroying a football stadium ever again since all mutants would now be in Genosha.

 

[Crimz]

I honestly don't care for the "They're in hiding" theory because it treats mutants as a monolith. Of course there are sub-groups and factions of mutants that hide (i.e Morlocks, Hellfire Club) but it's nigh impossible to hide the existence of the mutant species as a whole and especially not for the 80+ years that heroes started showing up in the MCU. You can't hide something that happens in the blink of an eye, and in any place, at any time. It's like trying to hide the existence of natural disasters. The reason why mutants are such a huge problem in the comics is because of their spontaneous, uncontrollable, unpredictable nature. If mutants can just "hide" as a monolith like Wakandans then there's no reason for any civilian nor politician to be paranoid and scared about them. Politicans and world governments can just treat the non-existent threat of "mutants" with diplomatic prudence. Just have Magneto and Charles build Genosha and nobody will ever have to worry about some random kid accidently destroying a football stadium ever again since all mutants would now be in Genosha.

Not if the population is really small. A small amount of mutants are easy to ignore and sweep under the rug. As time goes on the amount of mutants increases and it becomes harder and harder to hide and for the government to keep their existence from the public.

That's kind of the plot for the original X-Men run. The mutant population is starting to rapidly increase and they were no longer being considered myths. Then Charles Xavier created the X-Men.

 

[Detective Conan]

@Marvel united: My idea is that humanoid mutants like Logan, Professor X, and Magneto have always existed in MCU but they were very scarce in population size, living in secrecy and repressing their powers so the general populace wouldn’t be aware they were Mutants but what causes Mutants to become a widely known thing in the MCU is that newer Mutants start to exhibit more monstrous or freakish characteristics(i.e, Beast, Angel) and that leads to widespread panic. Perhaps the surge of energy used to undo the snap unintentionally activates the latent X-gene In humanity bring more Mutants into existence than ever before.

 

[Marvel united]

Not if the population is really small. A small amount of mutants are easy to ignore and sweep under the rug. As time goes on the amount of mutants increases and it becomes harder and harder to hide and for the government to keep their existence from the public.

That's kind of the plot for the original X-Men run. The mutant population is starting to rapidly increase and they were no longer being considered myths. Then Charles Xavier created the X-Men.

Yes, I agree with you regarding mutants already existing in small numbers but there has to be a reason why mutants start to rapidly increase and appear. In the original run, it was because of atomic radiation and the influx of nuclear weapons resulting from the Cold War. For the MCU, I'd imagine Marvel will want to tie the "mutant boom" as some researchers called it, into something from the MCU. I know some aren't a fan of them coming out of Thanos but honestly, it can be handled in such a way that Thanos is only indirectly responsible for mutants. All he does is awaken the X-Gene in thousands of people and accelerate natural evolution via the snap/Infinity Stones. This can be tied back to the Eternals movie when the Celestials experimented with humans

@Marvel united: My idea is that humanoid mutants like Logan, Professor X, and Magneto have always existed in MCU but they were very scarce in population size, living in secrecy and repressing their powers so the general populace wouldn’t be aware they were Mutants but what causes Mutants to become a widely known thing in the MCU is that newer Mutants start to exhibit more monstrous or freakish characteristics(i.e, Beast, Angel) and that leads to widespread panic. Perhaps the surge of energy used to undo the snap unintentionally activates the latent X-gene In humanity bring more Mutants into existence than ever before.

This is pretty much my theory as well.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm going to give Marvel a lot of slack in terms of how they introduce mutants and the FF.

I'm not going to say: "Hey, wait a minute! Why didn't this or this happen in previous movies?"

We know why mutants and the FF haven't been mentioned - because Marvel hasn't had the legal right.

Now that they do have the rights, I'm not going to make their lives difficult and reduce their freedom to do what they want with the characters by being a tight-ass about it.

My priority is to get good films - my priority isn't to pin Marvel into a corner and throw rocks at them.

 

[Detective Conan]

Yesterday I got into a bit of a debate with my friend who believes that Wolverine appearing in the MCU after Endgame would be a plot hole since why didn’t he appear to help during the Battle Of New York?

And I told him, “Don’t you know he’s a canuck and probably didn’t have his American citzenship?”

And he’s like “Wolverine is a Canadian? How can that be? He’s not a nice guy at all!”

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yesterday I got into a bit of a debate with my friend who believes that Wolverine appearing in the MCU after Endgame would be a plot hole since why didn’t he appear to help during the Battle Of New York?

And I told him, “Don’t you know he’s a canuck and probably didn’t have his American citzenship?”

And he’s like “Wolverine is a Canadian? How can that be? He’s not a nice guy at all!”

Wolverine doesn't have the problem Superman does. As long as he was more than a few hundred miles from NY at the time, how would he have gotten there before it was all over?

And the same thing would apply to Mutants when Thanos snapped. How could they do anything? They wouldn't have been aware, until it was too late, that anything was even happening. Even Nick Fury was taken by surprise by the snap when it happened.

 

[Marvel united]

Wolverine has an easy out/explanation. He was in Canada with Alpha Flight. He/they aren't going to fly out to New York when they have their own problems to deal with. Wolverine could have even been in Japan at this time

 

[ADollarADay]

A long shot, but if I were at the Disney board I would suggest the following:

Get Hulu to "purchase" the rights to Dark Phoenix and New Mutants for 200MM or whatever. That means Comcast would be on the hook for 60MM and ATT on the hook for 20MM. Disney would then have to write off and lose 120MM as opposed to 200MM while still getting a couple of "Hulu exclusives" and having the people were into the Fox-men watch the send off they wanted to see.

 

[Dark Raven]

Nightcrawler could've helped against Thanos. With his teleportation ability, he could've been there in a snap.

 

[Marvel united]

A long shot, but if I were at the Disney board I would suggest the following:

Get Hulu to "purchase" the rights to Dark Phoenix and New Mutants for 200MM or whatever. That means Comcast would be on the hook for 60MM and ATT on the hook for 20MM. Disney would then have to write off and lose 120MM as opposed to 200MM while still getting a couple of "Hulu exclusives" and having the people were into the Fox-men watch the send off they wanted to see.

Best case scenario for all Involved

 

[Zarex]

A long shot, but if I were at the Disney board I would suggest the following:

Get Hulu to "purchase" the rights to Dark Phoenix and New Mutants for 200MM or whatever. That means Comcast would be on the hook for 60MM and ATT on the hook for 20MM. Disney would then have to write off and lose 120MM as opposed to 200MM while still getting a couple of "Hulu exclusives" and having the people were into the Fox-men watch the send off they wanted to see.

I agree with New Mutants ending up streaming. But Dark Phoenix has a rumored $200M budget and pricey actor contracts that may necessitate a theatrical release.

Even the craptastic Apocalypse grossed $544M WW, and my guess is Writer/Director/Producer's Dark Phoenix is a lock for $450M even if awful. I think the Mouse will ok a minimal promotional budget and try to break even on the final film in the Singerverse.

 

[ADollarADay]

I agree with New Mutants ending up streaming. But Dark Phoenix has a rumored $200M budget and pricey actor contracts that may necessitate a theatrical release.

Even the craptastic Apocalypse grossed $544M WW, and my guess is Writer/Director/Producer's Dark Phoenix is a lock for $450M even if awful. I think the Mouse will ok a minimal promotional budget and try to break even on the final film in the Singerverse.

They are not going to break even on that one. They'll have to write this one off regardless.

 

[Zarex]

They are not going to break even on that one. They'll have to write this one off regardless.

Probably. But there is a built in (though declining) theatrical fan base for Dark Phoenix that didn't exist for most of the films that have ended up direct to streaming. The chance of the Mouse at least covering the film's production costs are much higher with a theatrical release, and I'm pretty sure that is what it will get. And then we can start speculating on the Uncanny X-Men reboot.

 

[Detective Conan]

They’ll likely break even on Dark Phoenix especially if the international take is strong enough. I think it will surely make bank in the Middle Kingdom where they seem to enjoy Mutant movies quite a bit(Apocalypse even outgrossed BvS there).

But that’s also assuming the domestic numbers aren’t too bad because I call tell you now that speaking with all my friends who go to every comic book film none of them give even the remotest sh*t about Dark Phoenix and won’t be that interested in seeing it. I know it’s anecdotal but it really seems the audience is indifferent towards this movie enough that it might be a really weak performer domestically. Here’s hoping the movie is a good sendoff to the franchise.

 

[Random490]

@Marvel united: My idea is that humanoid mutants like Logan, Professor X, and Magneto have always existed in MCU but they were very scarce in population size, living in secrecy and repressing their powers so the general populace wouldn’t be aware they were Mutants but what causes Mutants to become a widely known thing in the MCU is that newer Mutants start to exhibit more monstrous or freakish characteristics(i.e, Beast, Angel) and that leads to widespread panic. Perhaps the surge of energy used to undo the snap unintentionally activates the latent X-gene In humanity bring more Mutants into existence than ever before.

I pretty much agree but would add that people and governments have encountered mutants before but never knew what was the cause of their mutation. Every major enhanced individual has an origin. Super serum, Pym particles, gamma radiation, etc. The very notion that these mutations were natural never crossed anyone's mind.

A good example for a retcon to mutants is from Agents of Shield season 1, there was a throw away character called scorcher, they never gave a definitive explanation for his powers, the most they ever gave was his was a child when a local nuclear power plant burnt down because... science. But even then the characters weren't sure of it. I think it was suppose to imply he was an inhuman but you can easily say mutants.

Once knowledge that anyone can just become a mutant there would be mass hysteria. Everything else is just rare freak accidents but knowing the population will produce more mutants every generation you'll get people going crazy and get into issues of eugenics.

You can easily say that Xavier, Magneto, and Beast were the first to discover that these mutations are natural and decide to do what they can to keep it from the public. Because that knowledge is a powder keg waiting to explode and perfect starting point for a new franchise in a shared universe.

 

[Dark Raven]

They could say that they simply recategorisrd some meta humans whom they had previously classed as Inhumans. Now that they know more, Inhumans only applies to certain people whereas others are reclassified as mutants. That way they're not a new group that has suddenly popped up out of nowhere but was known all along.

Think of it like Pluto. It existed all along but its status as a planet was questioned when scientists discovered an object larger than it. So it was later reclassified as a dwarf planet.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

They don't need one. Why didn't Fury call out to Captain Marvel when the world was being invaded by aliens in Avengers? The vast, vast majority of the audience simply doesn't remember of if they do, they don't care. It happened off-screen. There, done.

Continuity isn't that important. Getting the characters (and in this case the mutant concept) right is. Having mutants come from Thanos or some other dimension or something diminishes them. We all know the real reason they weren't around.

I agree with what you said but the bold is where I gotta disagree.

Like what you said, we know the real reason, but when you have such an established world like the MCU they have to make a satisfying reason because continuity is what this universe is known for. It's just gonna be a little hard to believe that someone like Jean Grey, Apocalypse or Magneto is out there and just under the radar while Thanos is out causing carnage.

It's as simple as mutants having a small population and being in hiding, but more and more mutants are being born. Meaning that very soon it's going to be impossible to hide. After the Thanos situation they thought people were ready to know about them, but they were wrong. Tensions are higher and anything that's not "normal" is looked on with contempt even moreso after the events of Infinity War and Endgame.

There you have a reason why we never heard about them and a reason why they are appearing now. I'm sure Marvel can come up with something even better.

So we have Morlocks out there who grow into X-Men? I still think it'd be fun that Post-snap brings us mutants. Makes the most sense, using features of all the Infinity Stones in random people.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Detective Conan]

It feel its become a thing for directors to lazily compare their movie to The Godfather.

 

[Smurphftw]

They could say that they simply recategorisrd some meta humans whom they had previously classed as Inhumans. Now that they know more, Inhumans only applies to certain people whereas others are reclassified as mutants. That way they're not a new group that has suddenly popped up out of nowhere but was known all along.

Think of it like Pluto. It existed all along but its status as a planet was questioned when scientists discovered an object larger than it. So it was later reclassified as a dwarf planet.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Thank En Sabah Nur this abomination won't see the light of day.

 

[Marvel united]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that all of these guys who worked on the soon-to-be scrapped Fox projects, are now breaking silence and telling everybody what their movie was going to be? First it was Noah Hawley and now Rupert Wyatt. I'm expecting Bendis and Tim Miller to tell the world what their version of Kitty Pryde would have been tomorrow.

It's almost like they're all indirectly letting Feige know or they're getting nervous

 

[SumT]

so a solo spinoff set in the 70s?? when the actual x-men movie was already in the 80s and now the 90s? and with Tatum close to 40 years old?

what a f*** mess of a studio, man.