The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Iceman]

You guys hear about the Falcon Bucky mini-series?

 

[Darkprime]

Apparently the trailer for Avengers 4 will use this music.

 

[WeaponXCII]

I'm willing to bet marvel still makes some money from Sony. But to me it felt like Sony was trying to trick the GA into thinking this was with marvel studios. Because even you just made the mistake of thinking it said marvel studios. But why would marvel take their name off of it? That logo showing up anywhere is advertising the brand. Even if its attached to a crappy movie. And technically Sony hasn't done anything wrong. Nothing gets made if it's not in association with marvel to a degree.

I'm sure they make money, too, but at what cost to the overall brand? I, too, don't doubt there was a lot of deception on Sony's part. I guess where our opinions really diverge is I'm just not sure if any advertisement whatsoever is good for the brand. Look at what it did to the FF.

I'm sure it's all part of the original agreement. Yes. Marvel most certainly does get a percentage, and there is probably also something in the original agreement that requires Sony to mention Marvel. Remember there was a time, when the original contract was signed, that Sony was a bigger name than Marvel, so Marvel probably wrote that requirement into the contract to make sure they got credit.

I don't know a lot about business law (maybe someone like Big Bang, who I believe knows a lot about that area, can chime in), but it just seems so unlikely that there isn't some sort of recourse that allows a company to take their name off a product when necessary. Maybe that creates a conflict with liabilities in some situations, but in such a narrow scope as art, I don't see an issue. Again I'll bring up the Alan Smithee point. I suppose I just have an issue with the inflexibility that we're inferring is part of the contract: that Marvel has to be mentioned; that they don't get a say in what products get their stamp of approval. If this is the case, the wording of the contract was a foolish decision. Then again, these contracts in general (I know about the bankruptcy thing) were a pretty foolish decision, so....

 

[WeaponXCII]

Then the conference call on Thursday. Next week is a big one.

Variety (as well as a couple of other sources, I think) indicated it's the 11th. Reuters provided a correction on the date, as well. Are we going to have to wait longer than expected, or is this information incorrect?

Disney Offers Concessions to Secure E.U. Approval of Fox Deal

Disney offers EU antitrust concessions over $71.3 billion Fox deal | Reuters

 

[Darkprime]

Variety (as well as a couple of other sources, I think) indicated it's the 11th. Reuters provided a correction on the date, as well. Are we going to have to wait longer than expected, or is this information incorrect?

Disney Offers Concessions to Secure E.U. Approval of Fox Deal

Disney offers EU antitrust concessions over $71.3 billion Fox deal | Reuters

See I was confused about this. As I saw different different outlets with different dates. But I'm sure its the 6th. The 11th wouldn't make sense as its a Sunday. And its outside regular business hours. But ether way we should get some news on the conference call next week.

The way I read it was they changed the date from November 11th to the 6th. so idk lol.

(This story has been refilled to correct EU deadline to Nov. 6 from Nov. 11 in paragraph 3)

 

[WeaponXCII]

See I was confused about this. As I saw different different outlets with different dates. But I'm sure its the 6th. The 11th wouldn't make sense as its a Sunday. And its outside regular business hours. But ether way we should get some news on the conference call next week.

The way I read it was they changed the date from November 11th to the 6th. so idk lol.

Ahh, I guess I was misreading it all along. Thanks for catching that for me! In that case....

 

[Xeno]

You guys hear about the Falcon Bucky mini-series?

I am so looking forward to that, more for the Falcon than anything else. The writer Marvel has hired worked on Empire, which was an incredible show in its first two seasons, so I'm hopeful for great things from this series.

I also read that the Scarlet Witch series will focus more on her relationship with Vision, which has incredible potential. The Wanda/Vision miniseries from the '80s could serve as an inspiration of sorts. In it, Wanda worked with Doctor Strange and Agatha Harkness as she and Vision were in their first years of marriage. A good writer could work that into the basis for a great show.

 

[Iceman]

I am so looking forward to that, more for the Falcon than anything else. The writer Marvel has hired worked on Empire, which was an incredible show in its first two seasons, so I'm hopeful for great things from this series.

I also read that the Scarlet Witch series will focus more on her relationship with Vision, which has incredible potential. The Wanda/Vision miniseries from the '80s could serve as an inspiration of sorts. In it, Wanda worked with Doctor Strange and Agatha Harkness as she and Vision were in their first years of marriage. A good writer could work that into the basis for a great show.

I haven't seen that but it's great to know. I think those two will be good on screen together.

As for the SW show, that's amazing if it really will involve Vision. We really need to see more of him. Agreed, that would be a good work to draw some inspiration from, and I'd love to see the other characters involved too. With the right talent behind the camera and the right budget, this could be something special.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't know a lot about business law (maybe someone like Big Bang, who I believe knows a lot about that area, can chime in), but it just seems so unlikely that there isn't some sort of recourse that allows a company to take their name off a product when necessary. Maybe that creates a conflict with liabilities in some situations, but in such a narrow scope as art, I don't see an issue. Again I'll bring up the Alan Smithee point. I suppose I just have an issue with the inflexibility that we're inferring is part of the contract: that Marvel has to be mentioned; that they don't get a say in what products get their stamp of approval. If this is the case, the wording of the contract was a foolish decision. Then again, these contracts in general (I know about the bankruptcy thing) were a pretty foolish decision, so....

I think you're looking at it from a fan or Kevin Feige's point of view. From the point of view of the bean-counters at Disney, Venom is putting free money in their pocket with zero risk.

There's also the relationship to consider. Unlike Fox, Disney and Sony still do have a reasonably cordial relationship and Disney/Marvel would probably like to keep things as friendly as possible for whatever may happen in the future.

And then again, there is likely a real contract to consider. It's very likely that the contract specifically says that affirmation will be on every film, and Marvel isn't going to ask for the contract to be modified just for that. Just by the fact that Sony is making the film under the conditions of the licensing agreement means that Marvel has granted their implicit approval. If the film doesn't meet the requirements to bear that mark, then Disney can/should take Sony to court to regain the rights. But I'm sure Sony knows they're doing everything they're supposed to, so they have the right to make the film and the right/obligation to include Marvel on that film.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Variety (as well as a couple of other sources, I think) indicated it's the 11th. Reuters provided a correction on the date, as well. Are we going to have to wait longer than expected, or is this information incorrect?

Disney Offers Concessions to Secure E.U. Approval of Fox Deal

Disney offers EU antitrust concessions over $71.3 billion Fox deal | Reuters

It's listed as the 8th on Disney's Investor Relations Website (which I believe should be the final word):

Investor Relations - Stock Information, Events, Reports, Financial Information, Shareholder Information - The Walt Disney Company

*Edit* I see you're referencing the EU date. I hadn't really been following that. The conference call is definitely on the 8th. What stinks is, if the EU hasn't officially announced their decision on the 8th, Disney's hands may be tied. Hopefully we'll get the EU decision sooner.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

See I was confused about this. As I saw different different outlets with different dates. But I'm sure its the 6th. The 11th wouldn't make sense as its a Sunday. And its outside regular business hours. But ether way we should get some news on the conference call next week.

The way I read it was they changed the date from November 11th to the 6th. so idk lol.

Ahh, I guess I was misreading it all along. Thanks for catching that for me! In that case....

Working my way through the comments, so I'm catching up as I go.

The 6th makes a lot more sense so that it will be done before Disney's conference call. If it were on the 11th, I'd think Disney might delay their conference call since it will have a big impact and they'll likely want to comment on it (one way or the other) to their investors.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I am so looking forward to that, more for the Falcon than anything else. The writer Marvel has hired worked on Empire, which was an incredible show in its first two seasons, so I'm hopeful for great things from this series.

I also read that the Scarlet Witch series will focus more on her relationship with Vision, which has incredible potential. The Wanda/Vision miniseries from the '80s could serve as an inspiration of sorts. In it, Wanda worked with Doctor Strange and Agatha Harkness as she and Vision were in their first years of marriage. A good writer could work that into the basis for a great show.

I haven't seen that but it's great to know. I think those two will be good on screen together.

As for the SW show, that's amazing if it really will involve Vision. We really need to see more of him. Agreed, that would be a good work to draw some inspiration from, and I'd love to see the other characters involved too. With the right talent behind the camera and the right budget, this could be something special.

This really sounds like a great idea. Flesh out the characters who audiences know and want to see more of but will never get their own films. And also the ones who don't have powers won't be as expensive. Then the films can be reserved primarily for the big-name super-powered heroes.

And then, ideally, I'd love to see Netflix-like shows moved to ABC, and maintain that Netflix quality as a minimum. Tell the smaller stories but do it right. I don't know if that's what we'll get, but I think that would be a model for really doing it right.

The Inhumans hinted that they might be moving to a higher quality, fewer episode network-TV format... they just failed miserably in execution.

 

[Iceman]

Yes, sounds like an amazing development to me. The seasons shouldn't be anywhere near the 13 episode length of the Netflix shows IMO. Keep it tight, use the budget over less episodes so it really shows on screen, and eradicate all filler!

 

[Iceman]

I think you're looking at it from a fan or Kevin Feige's point of view. From the point of view of the bean-counters at Disney, Venom is putting free money in their pocket with zero risk.

There's also the relationship to consider. Unlike Fox, Disney and Sony still do have a reasonably cordial relationship and Disney/Marvel would probably like to keep things as friendly as possible for whatever may happen in the future.

And then again, there is likely a real contract to consider. It's very likely that the contract specifically says that affirmation will be on every film, and Marvel isn't going to ask for the contract to be modified just for that. Just by the fact that Sony is making the film under the conditions of the licensing agreement means that Marvel has granted their implicit approval. If the film doesn't meet the requirements to bear that mark, then Disney can/should take Sony to court to regain the rights. But I'm sure Sony knows they're doing everything they're supposed to, so they have the right to make the film and the right/obligation to include Marvel on that film.

And also it hasn't been an entirely one way street. Sony having the Marvel name on Spider-man 1 and 2 really helped for what was to come and opened the door for Marvel to establish their name as a brand on the lips of even non-fans.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes, sounds like an amazing development to me. The seasons shouldn't be anywhere near the 13 episode length of the Netflix shows IMO. Keep it tight, use the budget over less episodes so it really shows on screen, and eradicate all filler!

Or don't have a set amount of episodes? Just tell the story they want to in as many episodes it takes.
It's a streaming service each series can be as many or as few as needed rather than a set 8,10,13,24.

 

[Iceman]

Or don't have a set amount of episodes? Just tell the story they want to in as many episodes it takes.
It's a streaming service each series can be as many or as few as needed rather than a set 8,10,13,24.

Sounds like the ideal way to approach it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Or don't have a set amount of episodes? Just tell the story they want to in as many episodes it takes.
It's a streaming service each series can be as many or as few as needed rather than a set 8,10,13,24.

Yeah, I think a lot of the Netflix seasons could have been much better if they had been trimmed down a bit rather than forcing an 8 episode story to go 13 episodes.

I keep going back to Inhumans because it's so frustrating how they blew that opportunity. Eight episodes with the first two as an Imax movie sounded like a great concept at the time. Quality network television - unlike subscription services - can directly pay for itself. If you can create the next Game of Thrones, a show everybody will be talking about and will have to see so they can talk about it at work the next day, you can name your price for advertising. Then still sell it on home video, put it on a subscription service after its first run etc.

If I worked at Disney, I'd be seriously looking at rewriting the Network model, and I thought they were on their way with Inhumans.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Does the world really need a Bucky-Falcon limited series?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Does the world really need a Bucky-Falcon limited series?

I mean, that same logic can be applied to anything. Does the world need an Avengers movie? At the end of the day, if it is good, then who cares?

 

[Shuri]

I'm so excited about the bucky-falcon series. In one of the threads I wrote that a winter soldier series would be great, having falcon on it would be an added bonus. Stan and Mackie have such an amazing chemistry on and off screen, their banter alone would be entertaining. I hope Evans guest-stars on it.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I mean, that same logic can be applied to anything. Does the world need an Avengers movie? At the end of the day, if it is good, then who cares?

I just never got on the Bucky/Winter Soldier hype train and I can take or leave Falcon, so it's just meh to me.

They should greenlight a Blade limited series. And let me be the showrunner lol.

 

[BoredGuy]

I'm so excited about the bucky-falcon series. In one of the threads I wrote that a winter soldier series would be great, having falcon on it would be an added bonus. Stan and Mackie have such an amazing chemistry on and off screen, their banter alone would be entertaining. I hope Evans guest-stars on it.

I'm excited for their chemistry too, they're great together
But I have to be honest that it makes me a bit leary about the future of the Cap Franchise, always wanted Bucky to take over the mantle, guessing that may not happen now

 

[Shuri]

I'm excited for their chemistry too, they're great together
But I have to be honest that it makes me a bit leary about the future of the Cap Franchise, always wanted Bucky to take over the mantle, guessing that may not happen now

It could still happen. No one knows what will happen in avengers 4. That's the exciting thing about the mcu, anything could happen. I'm not opposed to Bucky picking up Cap's shield, I just don't want cap dead.

 

[Shuri]

I just never got on the Bucky/Winter Soldier hype train and I can take or leave Falcon, so it's just meh to me.

They should greenlight a Blade limited series. And let me be the showrunner lol.

Why not both? I think we'll definitely get a series or movie about Blade. If I'm not mistaken, there was a rumor about a blade movie.

 

[Darkprime]

Here's something interesting. So we all know once the Disney-Fox deal closes Disney will have 90 days to divest the 22 regional sports networks,it looks like Disney is already gearing up to sell the networks which could indicate a close date is coming quite soon. Provided the EU gives approval sometime in the next 2 weeks. (whether its on the 6th or 11th) who knows they could approve it before the deadline.

Initial bids are due on November 8th (an important date due to Disney's Q4 earnings call and the possibility of it being 2 days after EU approval) The networks have been valued at a whopping 25 billion. All though observers say they are more likely to sell between 16-20 billion.Still that would take the 71 billion bid and bring it back down to around the original 52.4 billion. A nice 20% discount on Disney's part.

So if Disney sells the RSN's sometime before the year is out (possibly in November) and China gives approval sometime in December they could in theory meet that projected January 1st close date.

Sports Channels Draw Interest From Private Equity, ‘New Fox’ and Ice Cube