The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Rhino: Suit Vs. Cross-Species

[craigaat]

Faithfulness doesn't equate good, these movies aren't made for the fans, and they shouldn't be. Directors, writers, producers etc. aren't meant to just be translators. The most important thing on their mind is to make a good movie IN GENERAL. Not a good adaptation, not a good CBM, but a good movie. The comics aren't meant to be dictators, they're meant to be blueprints.

Brilliant post.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

Faithfulness does equate good, if what you're being faithful to was a good idea to begin with. 616 Rhino was obviously a good idea which is why he's still around nearly fifty years later. There have been some not so great stories with the character, but that's the case with every character. And just because someone isn't a fan of the comic book medium doesn't mean they can't relate to and enjoy a character that has its basis on the comic book page, if they're portrayed faithfully.

And these aren't being made into better movies by their reinvention. The best things about these films tend to be when they get the characters right.

But Rhino isn't often considered a great character by really, anyone. He's just muscle, stupid, stupid muscle, that's how he's always been portrayed. He's iconic for being a RHINO, most people don't even know what his real name is. You sir are blinded by the comics. Also, yeah there are comics that are trashed to this day, but that's because of two things, the standard of which comic book storytelling is at, and the fact that they WOULDN'T get persecuted back then because they were STILL inventing the characters. Keeping the spirit of the characters is what's important, and the spirit of Rhino's character is that he's a big, dumb, greedy brute who's easily manipulated into doing other's bidding. That can easily be done, how he becomes the Rhino is up to interpretation, considering Rhino and Scorpion have the same origin as to how they got their powers, so Rhino ISNT a unique character. What if they decide to use Scorpion in a future movie, and wind up being criticized for being unoriginal for using a very similar origin as was used for Rhino? Just because it's in the comics doesn't mean it'll be excused on film, and like I said their job is to make a good film in GENERAL, a movie that retains the spirit of the characters, but isn't shackled by them. If you keep the atitutide that you have, you might as well take solace in some animated series, because you probably won't be getting that "extreme faithfullness!" adapatation anytime soon. Also, Chucky and Jason and both iconic characters, but all of their movies are trashed by critics.

 

[Gianakin_]

The fact that something is around for 50 years isn't enough of an indicator of its quality. It's how often it's used and how popular it's considered. Rhino is... bottom of the barrel, really.

 

[Doctor Who]

I would love the Mech Suit:

But love the idea of Cross-Species little bit.... MORE.

I loved how close Webb got Connors to the original first appearance, I would like to see the theme apply once more. I already believe we're on a wonderful start. t:

 

[AnneFan]

I'd like a mix of genetic enhancement and a mech suit.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It looks like spidey doesn't capture him again after the truck chase, i'm really thinking they will go the cross species route

Spoiler

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[HUMANIMAL]

why having electro in it when not using a mechanical rhino as well...last time they went the question of biological enhacements and this time its about energy sources...

 

[Dragon]

Well, I'd like to start with Orbital Sciences. Because they are the one that I previously mentioned I saw in person. My friends dad had us tour a lab where they were working with lasers and sonic resonances (kinda like phasers ) See: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/03/sound-lasers-phasers/

They were testing their affects on various types of metals. All funded by a company that began with missile defense systems.

Moving on, Honda is a company that makes cars right? Right. And they also make motorcycles. Cool. And bicycles? Wut. And jet airplanes? Woah. And robots? Damn. And Solar power cells? You better believe it.

But now the cream of the crop. Samsung. Are you quite aware of all the puddings Samsung dips their fingers into? My lord. So I dont have to list them all just check out this compilation of their operations and joint ventures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung#Operations

Now, I'm not saying Samsung is the real life equivalent of Oscorp. Because what they lack is a power-crazed self-obsessed CEO with a god complex. But heaven help us the day they get one of those D:

Dude, those aren't even in the realm of what we're talking about here. Did you just discover that companies like Honda built planes? But do they do research in curing cancer? Or birth defects?

The Oscorp we're talking about covers aeronautics (The goblin's flyer), Munitions (bombs and missiles) genetics (The Goblin formula, Connors' regenerative formula), robotics (If the Rhino is a robo-suit) and whatever many branches of science would cover the 616 Rhino.

Making cars, bicycles and planes all fall under the same area of engineering. Making electronics from light bulbs to TVs to computers fall under the same area.
Making a super human like the Goblin and making one like The Lizard and then making one like the Rhino are all very different.

As for power-crazed CEOs with God-complexes, you should do more research on these companies. Hell, they say the guy who runs Marvel has some God issues himself.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

No cross species, please, we already saw that in the game

 

[GuestStar2004]

No cross species, please, we already saw that in the game

at the moment its looking likely it will be

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Dude, those aren't even in the realm of what we're talking about here. Did you just discover that companies like Honda built planes? But do they do research in curing cancer? Or birth defects?

The Oscorp we're talking about covers aeronautics (The goblin's flyer), Munitions (bombs and missiles) genetics (The Goblin formula, Connors' regenerative formula), robotics (If the Rhino is a robo-suit) and whatever many branches of science would cover the 616 Rhino.

Making cars, bicycles and planes all fall under the same area of engineering. Making electronics from light bulbs to TVs to computers fall under the same area.
Making a super human like the Goblin and making one like The Lizard and then making one like the Rhino are all very different.

Oscorp is supposed to be this all-covering science/tech company like Lex-corp. It's not at all like Honda

 

[GuestStar2004]

But love the idea of Cross-Species little bit.... MORE.

this is probably what they will go for in terms of cross species

 

[Dragon]

But Rhino isn't often considered a great character by really, anyone. He's just muscle, stupid, stupid muscle, that's how he's always been portrayed. He's iconic for being a RHINO, most people don't even know what his real name is. You sir are blinded by the comics.

Apparently then, so is Columbia and Marc Webb, since they're investing millions into bringing the character to life on screen.

Also, yeah there are comics that are trashed to this day, but that's because of two things, the standard of which comic book storytelling is at, and the fact that they WOULDN'T get persecuted back then because they were STILL inventing the characters.

That's bull, since Stan created the letters response pages so fans could and did gripe about the characters and stories. But his work was never universally trashed as those I mentioned and others have been. Why? Because Stan and his crew's work was quality while much of what's produced nowadays isn't. And exactly- they were CREATING the characters. They were flying blind- and somehow getting it right. For the current guys, all the hard work has been done and yet they still can't help but screw up. That goes for many of these filmmakers as well. There's no problem with the characters- they've already succeeded. It's their handling of them where things fall apart.

Keeping the spirit of the characters is what's important, and the spirit of Rhino's character is that he's a big, dumb, greedy brute who's easily manipulated into doing other's bidding. That can easily be done, how he becomes the Rhino is up to interpretation, considering Rhino and Scorpion have the same origin as to how they got their powers, so Rhino ISNT a unique character.

You keep bringing the Scorpion up. Have you heard anything about him being in the movie? Because if not, the similarities between them are meaningless to this discussion. I'm saying the Rhino as a character IN FILM should be unique. Thus not just another robo-suit which we've seen ad-nauseum in Iron Man. Not a cross-species which we've seen with The Lizard. What we haven't seen is the process that the Rhino just happened to be the result of. As for his being a one-note character, considering that you seem to say this to the Rhino's detriment, I'd think you'd want to see him given some depth. Which still says nothing about his origin, which is the point of this discussion.

What if they decide to use Scorpion in a future movie, and wind up being criticized for being unoriginal for using a very similar origin as was used for Rhino?

You're not serious, right? You're not actually saying they should plan the development of a character being used now based on a film they might or might not ever make, right?

Also, Chucky and Jason and both iconic characters, but all of their movies are trashed by critics.

They're not iconic characters. They're pop-culture characters. And the movies featuring them tend to suck.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

Dude, those aren't even in the realm of what we're talking about here. Did you just discover that companies like Honda built planes? But do they do research in curing cancer? Or birth defects?

The Oscorp we're talking about covers aeronautics (The goblin's flyer), Munitions (bombs and missiles) genetics (The Goblin formula, Connors' regenerative formula), robotics (If the Rhino is a robo-suit) and whatever many branches of science would cover the 616 Rhino.

Making cars, bicycles and planes all fall under the same area of engineering. Making electronics from light bulbs to TVs to computers fall under the same area.
Making a super human like the Goblin and making one like The Lizard and then making one like the Rhino are all very different.

Rhino, GG, and Lizard can all fall under the cross species formula (GG being a hybrid of different formulas get get different properties). Raimi's Oscorp dealt with Genetics (Goblin Serum), Robotics (Glider and armor), and Energy (Ock's reactor). Oscorp has been shown using all of these throughout the comics, so it is COMIC ACCURATE, which is what you say you want. If you're gonna say that's unbelievable and cheesy, yet say Rhino's a well written, unique character then that seems to be a bit at odds. This isn't 616 Spider-Man, this is 616+Ultimate+Webb. If you don't like it then that's fine, but thry obviously aren't focused on being
comic accurate, which SHOULDNT be their number 1 priority. What if they found a way to make Rhino's
origin integral to the story? That's part of making a good movie, nothing is from left field, everything
happens for a reason, to forward the narrative and tie things together. These are movies that take 2-3 years to make, not weekly tv shows.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

LOL are you saying the character of Rhino in general is more iconic then Chucky or Jason? And maybe Webb and Co decided to use because of how expendable he can be. He's never been a arc villian, just another obstacle.

 

[Dragon]

Rhino, GG, and Lizard can all fall under the cross species formula (GG being a hybrid of different formulas get get different properties).

No, they are not the same cross-species formula at all. The goblin isn't about cross-species, meaning cross human DNA with another species. It's about enhancement of human DNA via artificial means. And the Rhino isn't cross-species either. It's also enhancement combined with coating the skin in a type of flexible armor. The Lizard is the only case of cross-species.

Raimi's Oscorp dealt with Genetics (Goblin Serum), Robotics (Glider and armor), and Energy (Ock's reactor).

Wrong again. Ock's work was for his own company. Oscorp (Harry actually) only assisted in funding him. And this is exactly what I'm suggesting should be done in these new films.

And BTW- the FLYER (It doesn't glide if it uses a rocket engine) and flight suit are not robotics. They're aeronautics.

Oscorp has been shown using all of these throughout the comics, so it is COMIC ACCURATE, which is what you say you want. If you're gonna say that's unbelievable and cheesy, yet say Rhino's a well written, unique character then that seems to be a bit at odds. This isn't 616 Spider-Man, this is 616+Ultimate+Webb. If you don't like it then that's fine, but thry obviously aren't focused on being comic accurate, which SHOULDNT be their number 1 priority. What if they found a way to make Rhino's
origin integral to the story? That's part of making a good movie, nothing is from left field, everything happens for a reason, to forward the narrative and tie things together. These are movies that take 2-3 years to make, not weekly tv shows.

Okay- I'm certainly not saying the point is being comic accurate. I'm saying make a good film. If the comic source material WORKS then there's no need to alter it to make a good film. If the source material SUCKS- then by all means change it. This discussion is about choices listed (None of which may be even in the film) and given those choices I'm saying that rather than fall back on something we've already seen, go with something we haven't- that also happens to be in line with the source material, giving a foundation that the idea has worked. Not too hard a concept.

 

[Dragon]

LOL are you saying the character of Rhino in general is more iconic then Chucky or Jason? And maybe Webb and Co decided to use because of how expendable he can be. He's never been a arc villian, just another obstacle.

LOL I didn't say the Rhino was iconic. You brought that word into this discussion. He's a popular character and obviously interesting enough for TPTB to invest time and money into bringing him to the screen. And considering that Jason is even dumber than the Rhino has ever been presented as being, intelligence doesn't amount for much in the Pop-culture Olympics.

 

[Victarion]

The bottom line is: take serum-->lizard monster, take serum-->human with rhino-like characteristics, take serum-->goblinesque chimera. Repetitive. Hence, a mech suit is a better choice.

 

[Dragon]

The bottom line is: take serum-->lizard monster, take serum-->human with rhino-like characteristics, take serum-->goblinesque chimera. Repetitive. Hence, a mech suit is a better choice.

There was no "take serum" involved in the Rhino's creation. And a mech-suit is incredibly repetitive. We just saw 42 of them in Iron Man 3.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

But the idea of the Rhino was written in the 60s. The idea worked back then, that doesn't mean it would work now. The spirit of the character is what is important, not how he came
to be, especially considering how Rhino came to be showed nothing more about his character than that he was stupid and power hungry, which can easily be shown with the cross species formula, by taking a formula that'll give him powers, and not worrying about the costs. It doesn't matter if it's a suit, that has no affect on anything, because the suit was grafted to his skin, and the formula could make the change permanent, which would be the same thing, just a different source.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I'm gonna say it: Rhino is an absurdly dumb character.

The fact that he still appears in the comics from time to time does NOT make him iconic. He is a C-grade villain - little more than filler. That's why he still appears in the comics (though, to be honest, I can't recall the last time I actually saw him in a comic). The only thing Rhino is good for is the potential for a fun action scene.

The only reason I have any hope for Rhino in ASM2 is for the possibility of a great fight scene, and seeing what Paul G. will do with the character.

As far as a suit or cross species...I don't know. I think a suit would make the most sense - it would allow for Spidey to have to think scientifically as WELL as physically - how does he stop a rampaging mech suit? It would absolutely have to depend on how the suit looks, though: not Iron Man-esque (which is easy) and I would rather it not actually be a robotic rhino...but perhaps a mech suit whose design, being based on it's function (whatever that may be) unintentionally suggests the look of a rhino, and it is Spidey who notices this and addresses it in a quip, nothing more. Or it could look nothing like a Rhino in the slightest, but Paul G's russian mobster is nicknamed the Rhino, and how he acts within the suit is what gives us the "rhino" impression we think of when we see the comic character.

That being said, I recall the creators of the ASM video game stating that they worked closely with the studio and Webb, and that for all intents and purposes, the video game was considered canon. This would suggest that the Rhino will in fact be a cross-species creation, which I get the Oscorp-genetics based logic behind, but I'm totally iffy on. We've already got a cross-species villain (the Lizard); I'm not too keen on seeing another.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The bottom line is: take serum-->lizard monster, take serum-->human with rhino-like characteristics, take serum-->goblinesque chimera. Repetitive. Hence, a mech suit is a better choice.

i think the point is all the serum is a build up to something bigger

i'm thinking peter looks deeper into oscorp to find out whats going on with all the cross species work, obviously it would lead to peter visiting connors in jail or ravencroft (if his cameo rumour is true) to maybe question him about what oscorp is up too, Norman gets a mention maybe, links to harry and his parents

a mech suit links to oscorp creating it for um.. something i guess, but that doesn't link to his parents (work on the spiders), or norman dying (why connors was working on the serum)

there is alot of subplots and characters to explore and quickest way is to link things together, and with trilogys usually by the 3rd film they circle back round to the 1st film again

 

[Victarion]

There was no "take serum" involved in the Rhino's creation. And a mech-suit is incredibly repetitive. We just saw 42 of them in Iron Man 3.

Iron Man 3 isn't The Amazing Spider-Man. If Rhino is cross-species, there is serum involved.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Iron Man 3 isn't The Amazing Spider-Man. If Rhino is cross-species, there is serum involved.

He saw many mech suits on film, does not care to see more on another film this soon at least

 

[Nicko-Ray]

I can't imagine Giamatti in cross-species form where like in the comic, his face is intact and untouched by the polymer, and everything else is Rhino. Maybe if he fully mutates that could work, but I feel that may be a bit redundant since we've seen a full mutated lizard. R.H.I.N.O. all the way.