John Murphy/The Score & Composer Thread

[Sawyer]

Flying sequence, IMHO.

 

[Chris B]

No one, and I mean no one, to this day can hear the Williams theme and not think Superman.
That as much identifies superman, as the Star wars theme or the jaws theme does for those properties.

I'm inclined to agree. Other composers have done great Superman themes but Williams' is on the level of iconic ones like the examples you mentioned. Even more so than Elfman's Batman theme.

So I'd personally bring it back.

 

[Rijowhi]

I'm inclined to agree. Other composers have done great Superman themes but Williams' is on the level of iconic ones like the examples you mentioned. Even more so than Elfman's Batman theme.

So I'd personally bring it back.

I totally agree. Even if you have all new music throughout the rest of the film, you could have the Williams theme as his triumphant theme as he flies away…

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I would rather have the composer be inspired and come up with THEIR Superman theme and own it, rather then just tossing someone else's theme in there.

 

[TheSlickTony]

I would rather have the composer be inspired and come up with THEIR Superman theme and own it, rather then just tossing someone else's theme in there.

Exactly. Michael Giacchino obviously drew inspiration from the Imperial March when composing his 'The Batman' theme. Buuuut it was still,unequivocally, a Batman theme composed by Michael Giacchino.

 

[Lily Adler]

Flying sequence, IMHO.

Need this after Pa Kent dies:

 

[GreenKToo]

Howard shore would be great.

 

[Lily Adler]

End Credits pop song.

 

[TheScarecrow]

I hope Gunn keeps the licenced music out of this movie.

 

[Sawyer]

I don’t know. I wouldn’t want him to go quite as hog wild as with GOTG or The Suicide Squad, but a few well-placed songs wouldn’t hurt IMO.

 

[emielaen]

Michael Abels' big spectacle moments were very nice and uniquely nostalgic in Nope. He could be cool.

 

[NotNickFury]

I hope Gunn keeps the licenced music out of this movie.

I agree with this. For ragtag groups like The Suicide Squad or Guardians, I get it. Even the brief use of "Shoot to Thrill" for Iron Man's entrance in The Avengers, I get. For Superman, I wouldn't want to hear any licensed music, but this being James Gunn, I doubt he'd be able to help himself.

Licensed music can be pretty hit or miss in these comic book properties. For every Free Bird in Kingsman, Immigrant Song in Thor: Ragnarok, or The Banana Splits in Kick-ash, you get something like how Supergirl used NSYNC or "Just a Girl" in Captain Marvel.

 

[Lily Adler]

I hope Gunn keeps the licenced music out of this movie.

 

[Silvermoth]

I think if you’ve got a John Williams theme use it. It’s like having a Ferrari and not driving it

 

[Arachnerd]

No. I love that theme to bits, but you need to let composers reinvent the wheel with something that fits a modern interpretation of the character. Same as Danny Elfman's Batman theme. Sure as bad place didn't fit Batfleck, that's for sure.

 

[NotNickFury]

Yeah, people really need to let the past go and stop holding onto the John Williams theme. It's the same as asking any Superman interpretation to be exactly the Christopher Reeves version. Are the theme and that film iconic? Yes, but it's time to move on.

There are other interpretations of Superman and other composers besides John Williams who can do a great theme. I enjoy the Hans Zimmer theme, for example, for that version of Superman. This new take needs to equally have its own composer to establish its own identity. Neither it nor Danny Elfman's themes worked in JL, I could accept the brief use of the Williams theme as a reintroduction to Superman when it was used in Black Adam, but beyond that, no need to retread old territory. Again.

Having said that, I'd like to see Ramin Djawadi have a shot at it.

 

[Elayis]

If Gunn ends up directing I hope it's not John Murphy or Tyler Bates. Superman deserves a proper melodic score, not a bunch of lame rock chords.

 

[Sawyer]

If Gunn ends up directing I hope it's not John Murphy or Tyler Bates. Superman deserves a proper melodic score, not a bunch of lame rock chords.

Tf did you just say??

 

[Elayis]

Tf did you just say??

I'm talking about his recent work. Murphy's work with Danny Boyle was fantastic, but Sunshine was over 15 years ago now. Nothing in The Suicide Squad impressed me, apart from that King Shark track.

Both Murphy & Bates fit into the same category as Trent Reznor of former rock band members who without any traditional orchestral training act primarily as ambient sound designers, not composers. They approach their scores like it's an album, as if it's a random collection of unrelated songs. There might be a neat idea or two somewhere in there, but it doesn't coalesce into anything substantive. There's no overall thematic cohesion or voice there, no story being told. Most of it isn't even spotted to picture, it's all written without any direct influence from the movie itself and the sound editors do the work of matching music to specific scenes. Any orchestral moments are heavily reliant on orchestrators who are effectively ghostwriters.

Even Clint Mansell, who I mostly like, has fallen into this trap recently. I'm not saying these types of scores don't have their place, but it's not what I picture in a Superman movie. Whoever provides the music needs to be a storyteller in their own right, able to elevate the narrative to a mythic status. I don't see Murphy or Bates being capable of that, and honestly Gunn's use of score in his films almost feels like an afterthought. It's clear the bulk of his musical energy goes into choosing the licensed songs.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

My problem with inserting the Williams theme is that either it would feel out of place with the rest of the score or the composer would have to do a John Williams impersonation for the rest of the music, and to be honest, every other DC movie where the Williams theme was placed on didn't work (Superman Returns, the theatrical cut of Justice League, even that cameo in Black Adam).

I would rather the composer just come up with THEIR Superman theme that fits the film and own it. Even with the James Bond franchise we've had composers update that theme somewhat at times (Bond 77 in the Spy Who Loved Me, for example).

 

[Dr.]

Obviously, Williams’ “Superman theme” is famously iconic. So much so that it’s almost a musical signifier or shorthand for “rousing, feelgood heroism.” And in a way, that’s its problem. When modern filmmakers/TV showrunners reuse the theme, it often feels (to me) like a “Pavlovian” manipulation: listen to Williams’ beloved music; recall, with fond nostalgia, the original Reeve movie; and then associate those prior, established emotions with the new iteration of Superman. IOW, the feelgood response isn’t wholly authentic. It’s “borrowed.”

 

[flickchick85]

Williams’ theme is the most iconic, but there have been several good Superman themes - from Zimmer’s to Shirley Walker’s to Christopher Drake’s All-Star Superman theme. I’ve loved them all, and they all screamed “Superman” to me. There’s plenty of room for more.

 

[NotNickFury]

My problem with inserting the Williams theme is that either it would feel out of place with the rest of the score or the composer would have to do a John Williams impersonation for the rest of the music, and to be honest, every other DC movie where the Williams theme was placed on didn't work (Superman Returns, the theatrical cut of Justice League, even that cameo in Black Adam).

I would rather the composer just come up with THEIR Superman theme that fits the film and own it. Even with the James Bond franchise we've had composers update that theme somewhat at times (Bond 77 in the Spy Who Loved Me, for example).

In the case of Returns, I think John Ottman's updated take at least worked there more than other examples is because Routh was meant to be a continuation of that Superman. Same with when it was used when he was Kingdom Come Superman in Crisis on Infinite Earths. But otherwise, yeah, you could've done a new one.

 

[GreenKToo]

I won't be at all surprised if Gunn goes after Williams. If not him, then shore.

 

[Arachnerd]

Let's hope not (for the former). Howard Shore would be interesting though.